"If you aren’t breaking the law you have nothing to worry about."

[pokerfan]

One of our city leaders arguing in favor of stop light cameras.

I realize that it's a minor thing compared to far worse intrusions and maybe it will even save a life, but those twelve little words have always bothered me.

Warentless wiretapping? "If you aren’t breaking the law you have nothing to worry about."

Sneak and peak searches? "If you aren’t breaking the law you have nothing to worry about."

Scanning the internet backbone for keywords? "If you aren’t breaking the law you have nothing to worry about."

[GOPisEvil]

1. Do you live in Austin?

Our new police chief is trying to ram these cameras down our throats here.

It's not breaking the law I worry about. It's being caught on camera pulling my underwear out of the crack of my ass.

[pokerfan]

6. Nope and it passed our council last night

5-2 vote.

[Deja Q]

2. Nice in theory, but

1. Who is driving the car when they run the red light?
2. Context and human nature; is this at a time when it can be reasonably argued that it was safer to cross rather than stay there and get hit?
3. Will it stop people like that vermin bus driver in Minneapolis who drove through a red light and killed 4 people? Which goes back to point 1 in that the person wasn't legally authorized to drive the bus...

[pokerfan]

4. The fourth problem

is that the proponents seem to be talking out of both sides of their mouth. They claim that it will both a) generate hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue and b) save lives.

The problem with 'a' is that the numbers are predicated on the assumption that drivers will continue running red lights at the same rate they are presently. The 'b' argument assumes that they won't.

I will continue to be cautious and look both ways before entering an intersection when my light turns green.

[Deja Q]

5. Quite.

Now in Minneapolis, they have signs and you bet I keep my eyes open as I don't want to pay them any money.

But the cameras more readily catching those who ram vehicles into others and injure people... at least they can catch the bastards, who in turn won't be let loose to do the same thing again...

Indirectly they may or may not save lives, but definitely not directly. Most cameras don't know how to perform CPR or tie a tourniquet...

And you're right, what the camera sees beofre the light goes red wouldn't be taken into consideration. That removes context and is more unfair than it is fair.

Definitely be cautious; that goes without saying. Even then, not everyone is and you may not see it coming. :(

[HawkerHurricane]

3. I hate that phrase too.

"If I'm not breaking the law, why do they want to listen to me? If they don't have a warrant, how do I know they aren't listening to me? How do I know they aren't manipulating evidence to frame me for something?"

[Skittles]

7. he needs to read a book about Germany in the 1930's and 40's

yes INDEED

[pokerfan]

8. I know

and it was a 'she' who made that statement, not that it matters.

[Blue Diadem]

9. There are studies that say they actually increase accidents

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/16/1614.asp

Accidents are increasing at the seven intersections monitored by red light cameras in Cleveland, Ohio. According to statistics obtained by WEWS-TV, the photo enforced intersections experienced 28 collisions before the devices were installed compared to 39 afterward. Akron attorney Warner Mendenhall, who is arguing against traffic cameras before the Ohio Supreme Court, told WEWS that the results reflect the program's true motivation


http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/04/430.asp pdf files of studies for various cities


There was a lawsuit challenging the legality that went to the Ohio Supreme court. It was recently decided. Unfortunately the court backed the red light cameras.

[pokerfan]

11. They brushed that argument aside

saying that most of the accidents these cameras will create will be rear-ender types which aren't as dangerous as a T-bone.

[Connonym]

10. aw what the hell

they already keep track of our license plates as we go through toll booths, they monitor our internet searches, they watch what we check out from the library, they analyze our credit card purchases and the monies that go in and out of your bank account, your phone calls are subject to at will/no warrant needed phone taps, they've got security cameras in damned near every public place, on fucking Google you can look at a satellite photo of your house from space and easily recognize your own car in the driveway. Big Brother is already here and deeply embedded. Don't move that picture on the wall!!!