Have you noticed how some thugs and killers in 1940's flicks

[Hardrada]

turn into amiable dopes and bozos in 1950's and later movies.
William Bendix was an admirable heavy at one time. So was Fred MacMurray. And in 1954 Ernest Borgnine played a really murderous Army NCO in From Here to Eternity.
Any other examples?

[Hardrada]

1. No noir fans here?

[madrchsod]

3. brain freeze..to many turner classic movies

[khashka]

4. yeah noir fan

evil women manipulating men to committ crimes with/for them? Cool!

Actually there's a whole porn genre based on noir.

Khash.

[Hardrada]

17. Suggest some titles. I am curious.

[khashka]

19. Theres an annual anthology

I think it's called sex noir or erotica noir- I could be wrong. It has a similar title to a book of sex stories about blacks. But you can buy it at Borders. Really!

Khash.

[CBHagman]

2. I'm thinking, I'm thinking!

There are casting complications here. Yes, Ernie Borgnine played a baddie in From Here to Eternity, but he was also a Bronx butcher with a heart of gold in Marty.

And Fred MacMurray was all over the map over the years. Watch him flirt with Claudette Colbert in No Time for Love. But if he was playing a wise father by the '60s in My Three Sons, he was also cast as the married boss who broke Shirley MacLaine's heart in The Apartment.

Hm. I'll have to think about it. The thing is, I only see so much noir...

[Hardrada]

7. I was thinking of Double Indemnity (Bad guy)

and then his flippant Disney roles (nice light weight).

[khashka]

20. Love that movie!

It becomes obvious why she chose him -nice guy but a born idiot. And Barbara Stanwyck being evil! Wow!

Khash.

[sarge43]

15. Don't forget Caine Mutiny.

His Tom Keefer was the piece of work who started it all.

[Hardrada]

18. Oh yes, the loathsome exploitive sneering writer on board.

I wonder if that was based on a real person. I suspect it was.

[sarge43]

21. Most likely.

If not someone Wouk met in the Navy, certainly one he encountered when writing for radio shows.

[Carnea]

5. I'll take Richard Widmark for a hundred Alex nt

[Hardrada]

6. He was a great bad guy!

[WinkyDink]

8. Not the same, but Donna Reed turned from femme fatale of easy virtue into Mom of America.

Ward Bond ended up leading the "Wagon Train".

[myrna minx]

9. While I love both movies, how did Public Enemy become Yankee Doodle Dandy?

Cagney is the best.

[Hardrada]

13. It was like an epidemic of Nice suddenly hit!

I am trying to figure this out.

[LanternWaste]

10. Didn't Jimmy Stewart play a heavy in one of the Thin Man movies...?

Didn't Jimmy Stewart play a heavy in one of the Thin Man movies...?

[CBHagman]

11. Sh! We weren't supposed to know that.

;-)

But yes, you are absolutely correct.

[cyberswede]

12. Robert Young

He played a good villain!

[sarge43]

14. Lee Marvin

Never turned into Mr Nice Guy or a bozo, but he stopped throwing hot coffee in womens' faces (The Big Heat).

[Hardrada]

16. A great example ! I forgot all about that flick. Glenn Ford

later on avenged the poor girlfriend.

[sarge43]

22. Intense flick, extremely intense scene.

Speaking of Glenn Ford, he wasn't all sweetness and light in Gilda.

[Hardrada]

23. True. He was sort of a hired gun, I think. Some kind of mercenary.

[sarge43]

25. Given the Code it was subtle, but the impression was

he was for sale, if the price was right.

[Westegg]

24. Bogart was a "heavy" early on...

and was able to graduate to sophisticated leading roles, once Hollywood figured out what he had to offer. Come to think of it, the first movie I ever saw Pierce Brosnan in was "The Long Good Friday," in which he a had a small, wordless role as an IRA hitman.

[sarge43]

26. The Petrified Forest made him.

Until that film he played run of the mill thugs, bit parts mostly, but Duke Mantee was seriously bad and Bogart showed his stuff. With Maltese Falcon he was A list for the rest of his career.

[Westegg]

27. Well said, sarge43. Both flicks are superb.

[sarge43]

28. They are. Forest is a little creaky now, but Falcon is still the

standard by which. And can you image any other actor playing Rick Blain?

[Hardrada]

29. PF also has Leslie Howard in a somewhat Hamlet-like role.

[sarge43]

30. And Bette Davis. No shabby casting there.

Howard and Bogart did the play together in New York. Howard insisted Bogart repeat the role in the film else he wouldn't sign up. Bogart named his daughter Leslie in thanks to Howard. Class acts both of them.

[Westegg]

31. I see Ron Reagan Sr. as Rick. Can't explain why...

...It's the weirdest thing. Nevermind. Yes, "Forest" is "creaky" now-- perfect word. That's the difference between this film and "Falcon." The former is notable for its intersting history and its cast, and the latter simply transcends time.

[sarge43]

32. There's an unverified rumor Ronnie was considered for the role.

Excuse me while I gag.

"the latter simply transcends time" perfect definition of a classic.