My dogs are LUCKY they're not dead - instead they are confined to crates indefinitely.

[Madrone]

It was that or beat them to death.

My elderly neighbor watches the dogs every day while I go to work. Yesterday he was kind enough to take in (as a foster) another friend of mine's young cat while she deals with some traumatic stuff in her life and moves away into a new apartment. We discussed the dog situation this morning, but he decided he didn't want me to leave them crated, and he'd watch them all carefully. Introductions were made between the animals - I went to work.

Sometime around 3pm my neighbor calls me crying and tells me I have to come home. The dogs have mauled the cat to death. I guess everything was great all day, no issues whatsoever - and because everything was so great he decided to go down the street to lunch. The cat was upstairs so he blocked the stairs off with some boxes. When he came home he found the dogs locked upstairs in a room with the dead cat.

He's traumatized, my friend that's been dealing with a horrendous amount of drama now has to be told (by me) that my dogs killed her cat, and the dogs are in HUGE trouble. I've never EVER laid a hand on either dog. Until today. They are barred from the neighbor's house for the foreseeable future, and will probably be spending the night in their respective crates.

Shit - she just called and I had to tell her. :cry:

[TZ]

1. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8132102

[Danger Mouse]

2. oh geez...

what breed of dog

[S n o w b a l l]

7. Oh how lovely...

what fucking difference does the breed make in this situation?

[Danger Mouse]

19. i was just asking, no need to bite my fucking head off.

[LeftyMom]

38. It might help to understand the behavior of the dogs.

I expected that there'd be some kind of terrier involved- they have small animal hunting instincts (because the base breeds were bred for rodent control) and when something triggers that instinct even the best bred and trained terriers can be dangerous to cats and other small animals. Not that I know that's what happened, but it makes more sense than if the dogs in the room were of breeds that are generally good with small animals or unlikely to snap.

[Madrone]

9. A lab mix and a miniature schnauzer.

These fuckers:

[boilerbabe]

26. Wow! Who would have ever thought that would happen?

Especially with those breeds of dogs? They don't look like cat killers at all!! They seem to acutally like hanging out with them. Must have been some freak occurrence? I am so sorry for you, your friends and the kitty.

All my love and best wishes...

XXXOOO

[LeftyFingerPop]

3. Gee Madrone, I'm so so sorry...

I don't know what to say. I'm really sorry. :hug:

[Madrone]

10. I feel responsible. The neighbor feels responsible.

The last thing the person who owned the cat needed was THIS. And it wasn't a conversation I wanted to have. It's not over yet either. She's on her way back (from the new apartment she's moving into in another town) and is going to call me when she gets here.

[S n o w b a l l]

4. OMG, Madrone...

I can't even imagine the pain & trauma you're going through.

I'm so, so sorry.

:cry: :hug:

[Auggie]

5. What a horrible day.

Sounds like your neighbor screwed-up big time.

[boilerbabe]

27. Who would have ever expected that? Crazy!

I'm not sure if the neighbor was really at fault, though. It sounds like a completely freak situation!

[Lorien]

6. What a terrible situation for all of you

I'm so sorry. :hug: :cry:

[Bucky]

8. I'm so sorry.

I'm know you must feel horrible. I'm not sure you can blame the dogs for following their nature. My sister's half-dachshund dug under a fence and gobbled up a neighbor's chicken last summer. She felt bad, but obviously it's not half as traumatic as losing a cat.

You have my sympathies.

[Madrone]

14. I DO blame the dogs though.

My dog in particular (the little dog isn't really "mine" although I kind of ended up with him dumped on me a year ago) - yeah, instinct and all that but he KNOWS better than to EVER do anything like that. When the neighbor came home the dog (my lab mix) immediately bolted down the stairs and cowered by the door. He KNEW. Even before the neighbor realized what had happened the dog KNEW he was in trouble.

It's why he got the first (and likely last) ass-whooping of his life today.

[Bucky]

69. Anthropromophosis

No, the dog doesn't know. "Don't kill the kitty" is an abstraction a dog's brain can't grasp. "Kill the kitty" is an instinct it can. "Uh-oh, I did some damage" is an emotional response. But dogs don't have IQs. He knew he was in trouble, but he didn't know he did wrong.

[Lil Missy]

11. OMG, how horrible!

I am so sorry for everyone involved.

;(

[Pierre.Suave]

12. Man, WTF is up with this world today?

did the non-existent god decide to dump a huge vat of shit on us today?

[boilerbabe]

28. That is a good question! n/t

[npk]

13. Sorry to hear that

I hope things get better for your neighbor.

[dawgmom]

15. That's awful

What a terrible thing, for both you and for your friend.
I watched one of my dogs chase down and kill a bird one time in the backyard. It was really hard to remember that she was only following her nature, and doing what instinct told her to do. Nonetheless, it was horrific to watch her kill something so beautiful. I got to her and took it away from her as quickly as possible, but she was completely bewildered by my reaction.

[Madrone]

16. That's the thing though - my dog has been taught before to do NO HARM.

I've seem him run up to a bird that for whatever reason couldn't get away in time and simply poke it with his nose. I can't BELIEVE he would do this. I do know, however, that what one dog alone would NEVER do can happen easily if you get two or more of them together. I assume that's what happened here - they got wound up and fed off each other and it escalated.

[Blue Diadem]

18. Oh Madrone, I'm so sorry that happened. I've heard it

can happen for the very reason you stated, two or more dogs getting wound up. My Dil's family have several dogs and it happened at their house last year with one of their cats that the dogs had known & played with for years.

One of my Dil's parents had closed a door to their dog room, not realizing the kitty was still in the room with the dogs. From what I recall, there were only two loose dogs, the others were in their crates. When they went to let the dogs out they discovered what had happened.

:hug:

[LisaM]

72. Maybe the closed door is the clue

Maybe the cat freaked out and provoked them. We'll never know, but if the cat was somehow locked in the room with the dogs, she might have freaked out and started attacking them.

[Dangerously Amused]

17. OMG OMG OMG!!!

I am SO sorry! OMG, your poor friend and you and and and.. :cry:

I have a question, though. How did the dogs get locked in the upstairs room with the cat? I thought the neighbor left them downstairs with the staircase barricaded? Sorry, if it is too traumatic to answer then don't.

[Madrone]

41. From what can be determined after the fact -

the dogs went upstairs after the cat - the cat probably went behind the door and the scuffle that ensued resulted in one of the dogs pushing the door shut. It wasn't all the way shut apparently, but enough so that they couldn't get out after they'd done their damage.

[Dangerously Amused]

43. Oh honey.

:cry: :hug:

[BreweryYardRat]

20. Damn.

I'm grateful that you're acknowledging how fucked up this situation is -- I grew up in a town full of assholes who would have thought this incident was hilarious.

What's the cat owner's personality like, and how did she take the news? I hate to say this, but if she's like me and leans more toward the psychotic end of the spectrum (or might do something she wouldn't normally do because of the stress she's under right now), it would honestly be kinder just to have the dogs humanely put down by the vet. I can elaborate, but I'd really prefer not to.

Edit: My reaction to dogs in general would be substantially different from my reaction to a couple of dogs that had just killed my cat.

[Lil Missy]

24. I'm not sure I understand your point??

Are you saying that if the owner of the cat is "psychotic", the dogs should be euthanized?

I am not sure I follow the reasoning for that. Nor did it ever cross my mind that the cat owner is "psychotic"??

You say you would prefer not to elaborate, which is your prerogative. I just don't see how putting down the dogs helps the situation. Sounds like making a tragic situation even worse.

:shrug:

[BreweryYardRat]

33. Let me put it this way.

If the cat owner is going to react violently, whether because she normally leans toward the psychotic end of the emotional spectrum (in other words, the area I normally occupy) or because the stress and grief temporarily pushes her that way, it might be kinder to humanely put the dogs down rather than risk her getting at them and killing them in a non-humane fashion.

[Lil Missy]

39. Well, that's a different subject entirely.

I'm not sure where to start ....

First of all, you are making an assumption that the cat owner is "psychotic". Which has not been established in any way, shape, or form.

Secondly, you seem to be projecting your own self-description of a psychotic view of life that "you normally occupy", onto this tragic situation, and how you would react.

And what is most disturbing to me, you are suggesting that you or some other psychotic should have your psychosis placated by murdering a couple dogs to make you feel better?

Jeezus Mary and Joseph, and Holy Mother of God! If one is psychotic, THEY need some serious HELP! Killing the dogs to make YOU or any other psychotic feel better is just absolutely insane!

Now I completely understand why you did not care to elaborate. What you are suggesting is just fucking sick. And there are laws against psychotic shit like that.

I am absolutely sick right now.

[Dangerously Amused]

59. Seriously!

People who realize they are psychotic maybe shouldn't give advice to others on how to handle stressful situations, hey?

[stewartcolbert08]

60. AND........

What is the usual nature of the dogs? Maybe they were just playing and it was an accident ya know, these things happen! I am so sorry, I cannot even imagine what you must be going through. I love my dogs so much, I dont know what I would do if they killed a cat. I hope this gets better for you!

[Lil Missy]

61. OMFG. I'm so glad someone responded.

I was afraid I had lost my fucking mind.

I think it is best I say no more.

[boilerbabe]

29. Well said, and I agree...........n/t

[flvegan]

34. Wait...what?

Because the dogs acted like dogs they should be put down? Psychotic owner aside.

So, if a dog gets loose accidentally and shits on the lawn of another psycho neighbor, it might be best to just off the pup?

I'm pretty sure I'm misreading you here, so I apologize in advance.

[nomorenomore08]

54. I don't think he's condoning such a thing, just suggesting the possibility.

Of course, thinking that because the OP's friend has apparent emotional/psychological problems, that makes her "psychotic," is jumping to quite a conclusion. But as awful and unnecessary as it would be, I could see an unstable owner brutalizing the dogs in retaliation.

[Madrone]

53. The owner has been through a WORLD of shit in the last three months.

But I've been there for her through all of it - even though I really didn't even know her at the beginning. That's how we've become friends. She loves my dogs - and none of us would have EVER thought anything like this would have been possible from them. She knows how she would feel if it were her in my shoes, and she knows it was a total accident. We were trying to help her out - not make things more horrible for her. She knows that. She understands. And I DEFINITELY don't think it's hilarious. She knows that too.

I would NEVER put my dogs down over this. Neither the friend nor the neighbor would advocate for that to happen either - it's a singular incident that occurred with otherwise impeccably behaved dogs. That doesn't mean they're not in HUGE trouble though - their life just got a LOT less fun for awhile. They will be spending tonight in their crates and not in bed with me - the first time that's EVER happened since babyhood.

[flvegan]

21. How did the dogs get to the cat?

These boxes...didn't work and the dogs got through and locked themselves in a room with this cat?

To me, not your fault, not the dogs fault. I'll end it there, so as to not piss anyone off. Just some perspective.

I'm sorry for everyone involved, and it sucks regardless of how it happened. Sadly, a cat is dead and your friend has lost her buddy.

[Madrone]

42. Basically - the dogs got upstairs after the cat -

and must have went after it into the room. I suspect the cat was behind the door and when the dogs went after it they pushed the door mostly closed. Not all the way - but enough that they couldn't get back out as the door opens inward.

[Madrone]

45. Delete - posted in the wrong spot

[Withywindle]

47. That's the best possible outcome to a horrible event.

I'm glad the friendships will survive at least.

I feel just awful for everyone in this situation....your friend's a good one. If it had been my cat I doubt I would have been so understanding. I probably would have lashed out in a way I'd regret later. That's my issue, though, I own that.

:hug: :hug:

[Madrone]

50. She said when she hung up when I first told her -

that she needed to hang up or she might have said something she didn't mean at that moment. I know no one here knows the whole backstory to this situation - but the friend in question only became my friend in the last few months, after something completely horrible happened to her and I came to her aid. Since then I've consistently had her back and helped her in many, many ways when all of her family and "friends" have let her down, stolen from her, and turned their backs on her. During this time we've become true friends - although we didn't know one another at the beginning. She knows there's no WAY I would do anything to hurt her - and she trusts me more than she trusts most anyone else. She also knows how SHE would feel if the roles were reversed - so she's able to separate her being upset over the situation from me as a person. We've been through a lot together in the last few months - going from strangers to friends during that time. She knows there's no way I would want anything like this to happen, and she knows that myself and my neighbor were trying to HELP her - not make things more difficult.

[Haole Girl]

22. Oh Madrone

How horrible... for everyone involved. Your dogs may not, I mean they probably don't, even think they did anything wrong. They are natural enemies. And, from what I've learned (also the hard way) usually cats and dogs need to grow up with each other to get along.

:hug:

[realisticphish]

23. another bad part

is that you can't punish them. Not really. Punish them now, and they won't know why. That's the tough thing about dogs. Unless you catch them in the act, you can't do anything about it.

I'm really sorry to hear this happened to you, and I hope everyone involved can reach an understanding.

[Roon]

25. My parents had a deaf rabbit that used to just live in their backyard

He burrowed under the dirt steps but he had free run of the place. On day my step-sister brought here three wiemerwiners (god that breed of dog sucks) and the biggest one was running around the yard with the rabbit in his mouth dripping blood and guts everywhere. It was very traumatic for all.

It took a lot of restraint to tell them "I told you so".

[Critters2]

37. I'd almost forgotten about this, but my first dog killed my then-MIL's pet rabbit.

She was a wonderful, gentle cocker spaniel. But the rabbit was out in the yard, and started to run. I know Lucie's instinct just kicked in.

Didn't help the relationship with my MIL.

[Roon]

44. Sorry to hear that

These people down the street used to let their Husky out to wander around and he got into our hutch and killed my foster daughter's rabbit. She wasn't living with us at the time, but it was still very rough. We kind of took it overboard though. But I was MAD!!

I had my computer and a printer and I printed a bunch of flyers warning the neighborhood about this dog. I posted them in a three block radius. The owner of the Husky came by and asked us how we knew it was her dog!! We said we witnessed it!! Then we took her into the backyard and showed her the hutch and she fell to her knees and started bawling.Three weeks later she moved.

I was crazy at the time, not on my meds. I would never be that cruel to a dog owner now. But because I wasn't on my meds I was very emotional.

[nadine_mn]

74. That Husky owner was irresponisble... I hate it when ppl don't understand a dog's nature

Its so unfair to the dog. My husband wants a Husky soooo bad and I keep telling him no (1) they have a high prey insticnt and will hunt and kill small animals (we have a cat) and (2) they are working dogs that need a lot of exercise (and we are lard asses) so unless we move to Canada and he gets dragged to work on a bob sled - no Husky.

But he always counters... they are so cute... I just smack him and he gets over it.

Same thing with so many breeds - people look at how cute, not realizing that the breed has traits that may not make them good pets (ie Dalmations - not good with children)

[Name removed]

30. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Runcible Spoon]

31. I'm sorry this happened to you.

there is a lesson for everyone with cats and dogs in the house: MAKE SURE CATS HAVE PLENTY OF HIGH SPACES TO GET TO. Make a few perches or catwalks around the house, maybe also a hidey hole or two. My neighbor's dog killed the family cat after 3 years of peaceful coexistence. Cats can generally fend for themselves if they can hide or climb.

[leftyclimber]

32. Oh, man.

I wish I knew what to say.

:hug:

[philosophie_en_rose]

35. I'm sorry this happened.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but I'm concerned that you admitted to hitting the dogs and think you might do it again. If it's not possible for you to care for them anymore, perhaps you should think of finding them new homes. Your dogs didn't put themselves in the same room as the cat and dogs don't process things like humans.

[Madrone]

40. NO I'm not going to hit the dogs again.

I do NOT believe in hitting animals. My dog has never had a hand laid on him in his LIFE and he's 6. Today was different because of the seriousness of the situation. He can not - NOT think what happened is okay or acceptable. That reaction from me, because it's a completely unexpected will and has made a definite impression on my dog. He will certainly remember this incident - because it was so over-the-top unexpected.

I didn't HURT him - but I certainly got his attention.

[Critters2]

36. How awful for you!!! I can't imagine how you or your friend must feel.

The beagle killed a feral kitten a couple of months ago, and I found that traumatizing for me...but I didn't have to tell the cat's owner. It was a shock to think she was capable of such thing (and then came in the house and curled up to sleep with one of my cats).

I'd give you a huge hug, were I there. Barring that, :hug:

I'm so sorry!

[Madrone]

46. An update of sorts -

I just got home. The friend called me when she got home - and she was AMAZING. Probably just as I'd be in a similar situation - though not as I'd expect someone else to react. She LOVES my dog in particular, and the little dog that's not-really-but-sorta mine too. She was just as shocked. She knows the dogs - she really loves them. She suspects (as does the neighbor) that they didn't really mean to KILL the cat - but that they were just playing, or that (probably the little one) got too close and the cat swatted at it drawing the larger dog into the situation as a "defender". One thing led to another, the dogs got riled up and fed off one another and the end result was a tragic one.

She's sad and she's upset, but she's not upset or angry with me or my neighbor. She recognizes that it was an accident, and that if any of us could go back and change what happened we would. She's also not upset with or blaming the dogs. My neighbor was getting REALLY attached to the cat and really loved her - she knows that he wouldn't ever have intentionally done anything to hurt it.

So when she got home she came over, we loaded the elderly neighbor up into the car, and we drove the block down the street to the little tavern and commiserated over a few drinks. We're all still sick over what happened, but it was a decent end to a horrible day. No bad feelings toward one another - we're all "in it together" basically, and heartsick and sad WITH one another.

[flvegan]

48. I love it when cooler heads prevail.

It was indeed an accident, it seems. Playing or prey-drive sets in. Could have been so many things. We're not dogs nor cats, so it's tough to try to disseminate the what/why/how of their random actions at times.

Nobody did anything intentional here.

Madrone, I'm sorry you went through this.

[Madrone]

52. Yeah, I know.

I think if it had been either of them (the dogs) alone it never would have happened. The cat didn't have even the tiniest visible wound.

This incident lets me know again why I've become friends with this girl. It started when I really didn't know her and something really bad happened to her - I took it upon myself to do what I could to help her - and I've been consistently the only person whose really been there for her at all. The more days that passed the more I liked her. Now we're actually friends - and it seems sometimes like every day I find another reason WHY. I wouldn't BLAME her for reacting differently - but really, she knows how she would feel if the roles were reversed. That ability to empathize allows her to have the "cooler head" you mentioned. It's also exactly how I would have reacted if it were me, and for the same reason.

It's horrible, and the dogs are still in BIG TROUBLE - but we'll get past it, and it's just another tragedy that ties us together.

[Roon]

49. Oh good

Going to take awhile to get over. How about heading to the shelter and getting your friend another kitty a forever home?

[Madrone]

51. I would, but she's in no position to have one right now.

That's why I "conned" (so to speak) my neighbor into fostering the cat for her.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

55. I'm glad she was able to reason...

But I'm so sorry this happened. What a horrible thing...

Did the dogs seem to realize they'd done wrong?

[Madrone]

56. oh YES, the dogs realized it.

My larger dog did for SURE. He couldn't get downstairs fast enough when the neighbor came home. The neighbor knows my dog really well and he said that the dog KNEW. Knowing my dog and how smart he is I agree that he almost certainly knew. And if they DIDN'T know they knew after they got their asses handed to them. The got brought back into the house separately and got their noses "pushed" into the cat's fur - swatted and put in the crates at my house.

The big dog especially - I've had him since he was tiny and he has a LARGE vocabulary. I've been telling him all night that he's very naughty because he "bite kitty" - he knows exactly what that means. He hasn't made a peep all evening.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

57. At least they know...

It'd be worse if they didn't understand. :hug::hug::hug:

[BarenakedLady]

67. I'm glad she understands

How tragic for all of you.

:hug:

[Common Sense Party]

58. I'm confused. You say the dogs "mauled" the cat to death...

then you say there is no visible wound on the cat. Did they or did they not bite and maul the cat?

If not, how old was the cat? Is it possible that it died of fright or a heart attack or old age or something?

[Madrone]

65. Mauled was the word the neighbor used when he called me. The fact of the matter is -

The fact of the matter is that other than a small amount of blood inside it's mouth there were no visible wounds. It was soaking wet with dog slobber from head to toe, but those two things were the only things wrong that were apparent. It was a young cat.

[Sebastian Doyle]

62. Some times you just can't predict what dogs are gonna do

Similar situation happened to some friends of mine a few years back, only in their case, the dogs and the cat lived in the same house and had for years, and they all got along as far as I know. Neither dog was ever what I would call vicious. The cat was missing one of his hind legs from a previous injury, but he'd adapted pretty well and got around on three legs about as good as their other cat did on 4.

One day, the dogs apparently just turned on the poor kitty. Didn't seem to be any reason for it, other than some primordial "wild" instinct to attack the "weak one in the herd" maybe? :shrug:

There was no warning signs from the dogs that they would do this sort of thing, just as I'm sure there wasn't any from your critters. I don't know if anything I said will help you understand this event, but that's what I hope I did. :hug:

[Boudica the Lyoness]

63. I'm really sorry.

We live on a ranch and we can't let our two airedales outside at the same time because they form a little mini pack. They got out together a few months ago and went missing for hours. They returned with porcupine quills. One dog had hundreds and is just getting over the damage. Alone they won't bother wild life, but together they don't know when to quit and the pain from the quills sends them into a frenzy.

Years ago I had three gentle nice dogs. One day on a walk and they run on ahead. Suddenly all hell broke loose, they caught something. The three dogs had something and we tearing it apart. I run as fast as I could to the spot yelling the whole time. I had no idea what they had caught and I was very worried. To my amazement a coyote went running to them and joined in the tug of war! Soon as the coyote saw me coming he let go and took off. They had a badger. I pulled at their tails and managed to get them away from the poor thing. The badger came after me with his mouth open, I ran back wards and the dogs grabbed the badger again. My son heard the commotion and helped get the dogs off the badger. The badger was bloody but OK. Those gentle dogs became killers for awhile. These were dogs that could be trusted around chickens, kittens, you name it.

Don't blame them. If the cat scratched ones nose or face it would have been enough to set them off. I've seen it happen. Just give them a good arse kicking. Your friend will be Ok because she'll understand how much you are hurt too.

[Madrone]

66. That pack mentality is what I keep coming back to -

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard though - a coyote? That's amazing!

[NJmaverick]

64. Very sorry to hear all of this

:hug:

[skygazer]

68. One of my dogs killed a neighbor's kitten once

In front of the little boy of the family, too. :cry:

My dog was generally very good with cats and the only thing I could think was that he was trying to play (he was still young), the kitten was small, he picked it up and shook.

Oh, it was very bad. I'm so very sorry for you, and for your friend, and for your neighbor. Sometimes shit happens that's just nobody's fault.

[SOteric]

70. I'm so very sorry. I know it's hard to frame

that your beloved companions could wreck such havoc on another little being. But go easy on the doggies; they were doing what dogs do.

And yes, I say this as a cat lover who would be overwhelmed with grief if her little fuzz butt ever met with such a fate. But grief wouldn't stop me from knowing that dogs chase cats, cats chase hamsters and other rodents, and rodents exsist purely to threaten my expensive French cheeses. It's the natural order of things.

:hug:

[LisaM]

71. Don't blame yourself.

Your neighbor is the one who left them alone and didn't close the door. I DO NOT blame the dogs. What are they supposed to think?

And why did you have to tell the person?

He should have crated the dogs before he left. I feel sorry for the cat - it's terrible - but clearly, you don't just leave them alone, go out to lunch, and hope for the best. DON'T blame your dogs.

[nadine_mn]

73. I am so sorry... that is awful... my dogs did something similar

I have 3 dogs and a kitty and they have always gotten along with the cat (some rough times with one of the lab mixes but the cat kicked his ass, so he backs off)

But when we moved to MN from Iowa, (we only had 2 dogs and a cat then) we stayed with my mom and her husband and my mom's german shep. We had a lab mix and collie mix - both very sweet and I had known the german shepherd since he was a pup, so they all got along great.

I took them outside to the fenced yard to run around and do their business, when they saw a rabbit and began chasing. Now alone they each would have chased a little bit and then that's it. But the 3 of them - some latent instinct kicked in and suddenly I was watching wild kingdom - they totally began to hunt that rabbit down. I was yelling trying to get them to stop, they had no idea who I was... I finally was able to break up their focus, I think the rabbit lived... not sure for how long.. poor thing probably had a heart attack

In a million years I never would have thought that they would try to kill a living thing - but the pack mentality kicked in. I am so sorry for you and your friend (and the neighbor) - :hug:

[Flaxbee]

75. Oh, Madrone, I'm so sorry

It sounds like it has been resolved, your friend is lucky to have you around for her, and sounds like she (and your elderly neighbor) are gems, too.

What a sad event. Instinct is very powerful, no matter how well trained a dog (or other creature) is -- look at humans with the fight-or-flight instinct - the base brain commands kick in, and it is really, really hard to overcome them. I think you and others are right - one dog alone probably would have done nothing, but two dogs together you have instinct plus the pack mentality = potential disaster.

Nobody did anything wrong - just an accident.

Hugs all around.