Do you think you can tell a lot about a person by the way they write?

[Haole Girl]

I remember an English Prof talking about this subject. He said he could tell much more about a person by the way they write than talk.

Funny... the things I tuck away in the back of my mind to figure out later.

What do you think?

If it's true, then why are people often easily fooled by people on the internet?

:shrug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. My dear KC2...

I think your professor was right...IF...

If the person doing the writing is being honest.

I have many good friends here...

All of them write the way they truly are...

When I've seen them in person, I know they are just as they represented themselves to be.

But it's based on honesty.

:pals:

It's a very good question, BTW!

[Haole Girl]

3. Thanks, Peggy!

Nice to see you here. Hope you are enjoying working with the Obama Camp!!:hug:

[Forkboy]

2. Somewhat, but it's hardly a foolproof method.

A lot of people online seem to fall into two groups. Those that are almost exactly the same in real life (like me, for good or ill), and those that take on a different online persona from their real life one. It can be pretty hard to tell what's what, unless they're blatantly, freeper-like stupid, which makes it easy. :)

[Haole Girl]

4. Thanks...

what is really freaky is when someone's persona or online personality starts to change.

:scared:

[EFerrari]

6. Have you ever "read" someone who could keep up a front for very long?

I haven't. Maybe that's someone to look forward to? lol :)

[Haole Girl]

8. True enough

It usually doesn't take too long before they reveal their true colors! :hi:

[Forkboy]

10. I don't know. Probably, without even knowing it.

I know I've been wrong about people online that I thought were cool.

I could never pull off a fake persona for very long, if at all. My beliefs and likes are so ingrained I don't think I could ever pretend to be anything but what I am. And I hate phonies anyways. :)

[EFerrari]

12. When you think about it, writing and reading involve projection

coming and going and invested in these funny little squiggles. It involves a lot of storytelling to figure out why we know what we know based on scribbling.

The other night I watched a BookTV segment where a guy was talking about why brains make some of us human and some not human primates. He talked about this test called "the trolley test" where people had to choose between letting some folks be run over or, pushing someone out onto the tracks to stop the trolley. Most people chose the latter UNLESS they had to touch the person who would be sacrificed for the greater number.

The deal was, people had all kinds of reasons for choosing as they did. What was constant was the area of the brain that lit up when they were choosing. It made me think that a story or an explanation is pretty much our defense against having one of these brains that light up for reasons we don't even know. lol

[EFerrari]

5. Yes -- in the sense that the writing can be looked at over and over

and an impression of a person (in the flesh) is fleeting.

I noticed something about my own writing the other day. My sentences get too long and if you say them, you wind up without enough air. So, somone reading them could figure out I tilt with anxiety.

Writing can tell you a lot. :)

[Haole Girl]

7. Thanks... interesting

I have very poor grammar/syntax. Anything I learned, at all, about writing
I learned the hard way (I had a rather fragmented education)!! :-)

[EFerrari]

9. Mine was piecemeal until I could fend for myself and go to college.

But, it wouldn't have mattered because somehow I'm hardwired to read like some people touch faces. I don't know what that is, exactly. Weird. :)

[Ava]

11. nope, i completely disagree

i've read the most sweet, heart filled, loving letters from some of the most hatefilled, horrible, and wrong people.

with writing you can fake emotion. when talking to a person it is harder for them to fake that emotion.

at least in my opinion.

[EFerrari]

13. It's true that most of our cues (80%+) are visual and nonverbal

but, betcha if you go back and look at those letters, Ava, you can find tracks.

[Ava]

33. i don't think you can find out more about a person from the way their write from the way the talk

which was the claim her professor made.

that being said, i've read letters that you would NEVER guess were from the person who wrote them - especially knowing that person. so i think that writing can easily hide motives, emotions, and characteristics of a person.

[Haole Girl]

16. You are so smart, Ava

That's what has been bothering me about what the Professor said, too.

[EFerrari]

24. But you can't really do that if your reader is a skilled reader.

One little example. In one of my classes there was a plagarist.

It was one of two students that I didn't want to peg. But, the plagarist outted herself by slipping in her writing. She went out of the voice she was putting on. People can't fake how they write or who they're trying to sound like for very long. They always slip.

[Haole Girl]

26. Ok. Now you're confusing me!

:rofl:

j/k

Both are interesting possibilities.

Basically, people can fake it... just not forever!

[EFerrari]

27. People work for years to try to hold a consistent voice together in print.

Maybe it's like any other kind of lie -- it will out eventually and sooner if you're a good reader. lol

[Ava]

34. well thank you

just my belief though :hi: :pals:

[Roon]

14. Oh, God! I hope not!!

My hand writing is terrible. The only person I know who has worst handwriting is my little brother..and he's an attorney!

I keyboard everything. Print out letters, pay bills, etc. When I find myself having to write a check, I can barely make it legible.

[Haole Girl]

19. lol

:hi:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

15. "... the way they write..."

Did the professor mean the physical act of writing - like you can tell a lot about someone by his handwriting?

Or was he talking about writing, as in essay writing, letter writing, ransom note writing?

I am a novelist by trade, and when my first novel sold, I flew to NY to meet my agent and soon-to-be-editor in person. Up until then, it had all been phone conversations.

When I walked into my agency's offices, the first thing everyone said was, "Your hair isn't curly!"

I said, "No, that's my protagonist. She has curly hair." And these were professionals! We all had a great laugh.

So, can you tell anything about someone by how they write?

[Haole Girl]

17. Not hand writing....

he was actually discussing letters, etc.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. Then my response was.........

......... maybe appropriate?

Thanks.

[Haole Girl]

20. Must be nice to write for a living...

Do you enjoy it?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. I love it

If I didn't love it, I wouldn't do it. I was a professional for a lot of years, and when I lost my taste for that work, I wrote a novel, just for fun. My godson's mother, who writes children's books, got me to send the ms to her agent, who fell in love with it, sold it for a silly amount of money, and I signed a multi-book deal and was launched, matched with the greatest editor in the world at the publishing house owned by :::: gasp :::: Rupert Murdoch.

It's not easy, though. The publishing business is brutal. I have very good representation, though, which cushions it somewhat. And my editor is also a publisher, so that's another firewall. All in all, it's a rarified atmosphere in which I dwell, and I'll never get over my great good fortune, having never as much as taken a writing course or reading a book on writing. I'm a freak, I know, but a very lucky freak.

[Haole Girl]

22. You write very well

It's probably because you weren't ruined by formal writing courses! ;-)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

25. I don't believe writing can be taught

I think that reading and reading and reading some more is the basis on which we become writers. All those writing courses, gee, I'm just not convinced they're worthwhile.

And those "Writers' Conferences"! I had never heard of them - told you I was a virgin - and I asked my publisher what they were. She described them to me, and said, "They're something you'll never go to."

The truth about those conferences is that the writers and editors who go there are far more interested in taking a holiday from their day jobs than they are in accumulating mss. My editor used a conference in Hawaii as her honeymoon - they only had to pay for her husband's ticket and lodging.

Thank you, too, for your kind words.

[EFerrari]

29. If you don't believe writing can be taught, how do you account for your own acquisition?

This just gets more interesting all the time.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. I started reading at age 3,

and I never stopped.

Some people can play musical instruments by ear. I can write. But I am convinced that my voracious reading habit contributed greatly to my small ability to put words to paper and take readers on a journey they never imagined.

[EFerrari]

32. Reading and writing are two completely different skills.

Skills, not birthmarks. They're both learned just like tying your shoes.

Good luck on your quest to "take readers on a journey they never imagined".

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. I wonder

I think we're all born with gifts, and whatever we do to polish and to refine them is how we get to be able to utilize and to enjoy them.

Thanks for your good wishes. It's been a great ride, getting better all the time.

[EFerrari]

44. You needn't wonder if writing is learned. It obviously is.

What is it exactly that makes you "wonder" if writing is learned or not?

What I'm hearing is the myth of The Writer that bears no relation to how we actually work day by day.

How did your first book come about, exactly?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

48. My curiosity, of course.

It's what makes me wonder about a lot of things.

I don't know what "the myth of The Writer" is, sorry. As I said, I'm quite untutored.

How did it come about? I wrote it.

[EFerrari]

52. I thought so. Well done. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

61. Well, thank you

That's very kind.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

46. Different skills, yes, but not completely different.

There does seem, at least to me, to be something of a one-way street where this is concerned: it's possible to be a good and voracious reader but a pretty terrible writer, but I have yet to encounter a skilled, even beautiful, writer, particularly in a creative sense, who was not in love with reading.

Both for me are as natural and intuitive as breathing, but both need practice and honing--not necessarily through "writers' conferences" or similar; constant use is more what I'm talking about. The degree to which one must hone a piece of writing depends on its genesis and its intended function: journal writing is best left unedited and uncensored, while creative works nearly always ought to be pruned and reconfigured several times if one wants them to be read by others.

[EFerrari]

49. Exactly. You don't learn how to write by reading

although it is like building up a context, like learning a language.

But, it's nowhere near enough. You have to fuck up on paper many, many times first. lol

[WritingIsMyReligion]

53. Absolutely.

Reading gives you the intuition, the natural sense of how to write--very much like learning a language. Fucking up on paper--sheer writing, many times over, the brute act of writing--is the only way to truly learn how to write, though. :)

[EFerrari]

55. Hail, fellow screw up, well met.

:)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

58. Hahahaha.

I always take Stephen King's words to heart: "The only way to be a writer is to write." You cannot magically imbue writing talent and get it down perfectly the first time.

[EFerrari]

62. King wrote the best stuff on the process and how it works

EVAH!

:toast:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

69. ON WRITING is clutch stuff.

:)

[EFerrari]

71. I never read that stuff, can't focus on it and it all makes me really impatient.

But, he did it just right. :shrug:

:)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

I'm not a fan of King's writing, actually.

But ON WRITING cracks me the fuck up, particularly his war against excessive adjectives and nearly all adverbs. :D

[EFerrari]

77. I'm not either! I can't read him at all. But THAT was good.

Especially the war on adjectives and adverbs. :)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

81. Fuck up many, many times?

Not necessarily. The ms I sent to the woman who became my agent was a first draft, and it was the one she sold to the publisher.

Then, one hundred pages were pruned and my editor wrote me a long editorial letter, in which I found only one correction objectionable, and we agreed to skip it.

Sometimes you get it right the first time.

[EFerrari]

83. Please tell us more.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

84. About what?

You'll have to frame your question a bit more specifically.

[EFerrari]

86. No, sweetie, I don't have to do anything.

:)

I simply was asking you to please tell us more about getting it right the first time, which any writer knows, happens very rarely. About as rarely as your publisher mistaking you for a character in a work that is fictional.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

88. It was my agent and the staff, not my publisher,

but, you're right. You asked a broad question, and that's certainly your right.

You'd like to know how I get it right the first time? Well, as I stated, I didn't get it right, did I, since one hundred pages were edited out? And, as I stated, my editor had lots of editorial suggestions.

So, you see, the finished product was not exactly the first draft - see how that works? The first draft was what got sold, but, ultimately, when the book appeared in stores, it was different. Not substantially, but different.

You're welcome.

And I will wish you well and hope you don't have to live with that kind of jealousy much longer. I do feel sorry for you.

Good luck.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

35. Acquisition?

That's an odd word. I don't understand your use of it.

How I polished whatever writing talent I might have been born with - well, I answered that already - reading, reading, reading.

[EFerrari]

37. As someone who writes for a living, I'm sure you have a dictionary

at your disposal. :)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

39. Oh, lots of them, some in weird languages, even.

But I never wrote that I didn't know what the word meant.

I did not understand your use of it.

[EFerrari]

41. Now would be a good time for you to find the one in English. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

45. I understand

You aren't having a whole lot of luck. I understand. I'm sorry that the professional life of a stranger would so bother you. But, you know, some people do things that bring them great joy, and, while we don't expect all people to rejoice with us, it's particularly gratifying when an amateur implodes and sputters to a sad stop.

[EFerrari]

51. LOL!

So, the personal attack comes in to rescue you. How timely.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

60. Personal attack?

Oh, dear. Did I attack you?

I think you didn't read it right. I was simply describing behavior. But, it's telling that you would take it personally.

[EFerrari]

63. LOL! Yes, it must be my reading deficit. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

66. Perhaps it's not reading.

Perhaps it's something else. I have no idea.

But, it is curious that you need to try to tell me that something I experienced in my life was not true, or, in your case, not believable. I find that awfully sad.

[EFerrari]

It strains credulity, doesn't it?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

70. Yours, obviously

But that just tells me that your experience is narrow.

[EFerrari]

72. Okay. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

74. And, of course,

you're very welcome.

[EFerrari]

76. I've very much enjoyed the illustration to this thread. Thanks!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

79. Good.

I got a million of them.

Anytime.......................

[EFerrari]

82. Undoubtedly, you do. n/t

[mitchum]

99. Every honest writing prof I have ever had agrees with you

and so do I

[EFerrari]

23. A group of people assumed your hair was curly

so that means writing isn't telling? Is that what you're saying or did I get that wrong?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. You got it wrong

The people at the literary agency had all read my manuscript and assumed I was using myself as a pattern for the protagonist. I wasn't, but my writing convinced them that they knew me.

It's a common occurrence, I've since learned, in the writing business. A lot of readers just assume you're telling a true story, not one you made up, and that the people you write about are real, but they're only creatures of the author's imagination.

So, writing is, indeed, telling, but in my experience, it tells more about the reader than it does about the author.

[EFerrari]

31. No, I didn't get it wrong, actually.

"When I walked into my agency's offices, the first thing everyone said was, "Your hair isn't curly!"

I said, "No, that's my protagonist. She has curly hair." And these were professionals! We all had a great laugh."

What an amazing encounter with this group of professionals. I can't think of anyone who reads, edits or publishes for a living that would make such a silly assumption.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

36. Then, I would say,

your experience is limited. Valid, of course, but limited.

[EFerrari]

40. You'd pretty much have to tank my observation

in order for anyone to continue to believe that a group of publishing professionals keyed to your hair? Your HAIR?

Good luck with that.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

42. So you don't believe what happened?

That's all right. I understand your limitations, and, of course, realize that you can't go any further.

Maybe someday you'll run into a group as lovely as that bunch at my literary agency.

[Haole Girl]

43. I believe you!

People are highly unpredictable. In any occupation! :hi:

[EFerrari]

54. Publishers are not. Their living depends upon them not making

silly assumptions that only occur in second rate women's romance novels.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

56. And isn't that lovely?

They're icebergs, with 9/10s of what they're about below the surface.

I had a couple of conversations today with 2 cabdrivers, an orthopedic surgeon, a Federal civil servant, and a little boy who broke his arm jumping off the kitchen table while he was being Spiderman. And they were all wonderfully rich. (The cab drivers, one from Afghanistan and one from Ethiopia, are both voting for Obama!)

Thank you. :toast:

[EFerrari]

85. And I spoke to Elvis over my morning coffee. It was fabulous.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

89. Oh, you poor dear

I hope your writing career goes well and then maybe you won't have to be so bitter and angry. It's an easier world if you're kind and generous.

[EFerrari]

47. It's interesting that you keep insisting on my limitations

without a clue in the world as to who I am.

Maybe someday you will run into a group as lovely as the one you describe.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

57. But you're showing your limitations

You make it far too easy for me.

And, really, does it do you good to call me a liar? Why do you think you must do that?

Does it make your life better?

If so, call me anything you want. I'm glad to help.

[EFerrari]

59. This thread was wonderfully about reading people writing

and how much you could learn from the writing about the writer.

lol

[Tangerine LaBamba]

64. Yes, indeed,

and it would seem that you're uncomfortable with my relating a story that was on point.

That's all right. Sometimes a reader just falls by the wayside. It happens.

[EFerrari]

65. Surely, it must be me.

lol

[Tangerine LaBamba]

67. No, more than you

Lots of people start reading books and find they don't like them. Get to page 20 and toss it. I do that myself.

As I said, it happens.

But, how unfortunate and telling that you keep bringing it back to you. It's about readers. And writers.

[EFerrari]

68. Yes, this must be about some character defect of mine and all readers.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

73. "... character defect..."?

I wonder how you came up with that concept. It's certainly not responsive to anything I've written.

It's a matter of taste - I'm spelling it out for you here, so I'll type v e r y s l o w l y.

[EFerrari]

75. It's not a singular concept for the culturally literate.

But, please don't strain your hands. :)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

78. I'm not sure what

"culturally literate" means. Sounds like another one of those concepts promulgated in writing courses.

Thank you for your concern. My hands, bless all their twelve fingers and four thumbs, are fine.

[EFerrari]

80. Really? Good enough. n/t

[Haole Girl]

91. Did you two kiss & make up yet?

;-)

[Jamastiene]

95. Psst...

Shhhh....

I was rather enjoying the exchange.
:popcorn:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

50. For me, yes.

I like to see things in writing, and I think a very important part of who I am appears most strongly in my words.

[Haole Girl]

92. Makes sense

after all, writing is your religion! :hi:

[NewJeffCT]

87. People think I'm nice by the way I write on DU

boy, are they ever wrong!

[Haole Girl]

93. You are nice

And you'll just have to suffer with the reputation!

:hi:

[Chan790]

90. In some ways, yes...others, not really.

I say this as someone who taught writing to kids and tutors adults who think they have a gift...I'm a capable writer but not a driven one.

Some things about a writer say a lot.

Style.
People who write long messy descriptive prose where word usage trumps plot tend to have that same sort of vivid worldview and a sense of wonder and focus to details. As a result, they tend to be the least active people. What did you do today? "I watched a butterfly flit and float on its' magenta wings on ethereal currents invisible to the eye through neon green leaves of rhododendrons, flowers busting fireworks in the background..." (interupting) "I noticed you didn't do the dishes in over two weeks."

People who write staccato action-prose are doers. Move move move. Act. No time to observe or do anything but state. I awoke. The sun was up so I closed the blinds. I nearly shit myself on the treadmill. Jumped in the shower. Dropped the soap. The lower half of me is still unclean.

Word Choice
Word choice needs to do two things: reflect your audience and be true to your character. Bad writers do neither. None-the-less...words tell a reader everything they can know about the author through reading his/her book. Theo was a bad bad man, even his momma thought he'd shank someone one day for a piece of gum. Theo philosophized that the cause of his disposition could not be autosomal since neither his brother nor his sister showed the same inate propensity towards irrational violence, nor inherent aptitude with stilettos and short blades. (Note the intellectual disconnect between the first and second sentence, despite the shared topic and continuation of a single narrative process.)

Some things which seem important tell us nothing. Theme and subject are two great examples. Hitler wrote beautiful love poems. The author of Fight Club is an extremely-shy quiet reserved semi-reclusive former diesel mechanic from Portland, OR. One of my best friends from college is a children's book author...she's also really into BDSM, gets into bar-fights and listens to death metal while doing housework. She's married to a smut writer who prefers to cuddle and is a prolific hugger who spends the vast majority of his time watching cartoons and is highly-uncomfortable with PDA and discussions of sexuality.

[Haole Girl]

94. Wow... I'd forgot that Hitler wrote poems

This is obviously much more complex a question than I thought (or, answer, maybe). No wonder I tucked it in the back of my mind for all of these years.

Thank you for your great observations/information! :hi:

[pengillian101]

101. Thanks for the observations and sharing. Very interesting! n/t

[halobeam]

105. Okay, now this is SERIOUSLY fascinating! ...

Some things which seem important tell us nothing. Theme and subject are two great examples.

-- One of my best friends from college is a children's book author...she's also really into BDSM, gets into bar-fights and listens to death metal while doing housework. She's married to a smut writer who prefers to cuddle and is a prolific hugger who spends the vast majority of his time watching cartoons and is highly-uncomfortable with PDA and discussions of sexuality.

I wouldn't have answered the OP's question correctly, without having read this. It's mind boggling to me how powerful the written word is. We, as readers, weigh in with everything we are and come to conclusions based on ourselves, as to what the author means. Following that path, we conclude what we perceive the author to be; which is obviously a big fat error on our part! No sarcasm here, it just unsettles me to think differently than I have thought. There are writers that I have loved for my lifetime, thinking that they are what they write. I suppose it's better I understand that it is their writing that I love and the effect it has on me. I guess the unsettling part in this is, that I didn't think a person who could be so expressive in love could actually be living a life void of/or in contrast with what they are saying. How can it be that they can not/choose not to be what they express? How could they write about something they don't really know? I can't even begin to think of Hitler writing beautiful love poems. I may have to put that into my DU lounge writing 102 class. I'm not quite out of 101!



Thanks for a good post....

and another thanks to the OP for such a thought provoking thread!

[Jamastiene]

96. You can tell a lot more about a person by how they interpret

what someone writes. In other words, what a person gets out of reading something tells waaay more about them than it does the writer. Yes, you can tell some about a person by what they write too, ihmo.

[Haole Girl]

97. True too.

I think I'll let this thread die a natural death now. :hi:

[halobeam]

103. I'm not so sure its ready to go, KC2

:rofl:

Seems you opened the door to some very interesting conversation. I am loving this thread!

[Jamastiene]

107. It's a good thread.

:hug:

[enigmatic]

108. I agree w/ this

:thumbsup:

[mitchum]

98. Yes

[DarkTirade]

100. For me that's probably true...

but that's 'cause I'm just not comfortable around most people to be myself. Whereas with writing, I'm free to write whatever the )*&% I want. :)

[Iggo]

102. Nope.

I think you can tell a little about a person by how they write, but only if you already know them.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

104. hmmm.You can tell if they have a talent for the written word...and whether

or not they take grammar and sentence structure seriously.

[reyd reid reed]

106. You can tell if they understand

the basics of sentence structure and whether or not they can spell. Personality traits...not so much, particularly if they're a good writer.