I'm seriously thinking of suing my employer...

[Tripper11]

I have had enough of them.

I have worked my ass off for them, applied myself at every opportunity for nothing.

Recently there have been 2 opportunities for me to advance into a full time position, both of which I was easily qualified for.

The first position went to someone who came from a coffe company, which is fine, except this is a radio station. I have 8 years radio experience, 2 at this company alone as well as having gone to and recieved a radio broadcasting diploma from college.

Then late last week another full time position I had applied to I didn't get. According to the HR person "I defaintely displayed all the skills necessary for the position, but I will be going with someone else."
That someone else was a former intern who interned not in the department she got the job in but in a completely different department.

This HR person has been known to have it out for a certain section of our company and well, frankly I have had enough. It clearly states in the employee handbook that they prefer to hire from within, but 2 times that I was easily qualified for a position they went outside, and I ahte to say it, but 2 women got the job over me.

I have discussed this with some of the female staff I work with and even they have stated that it does seem a little discrimatory that I was overlooked.

For each of the positions that I had applied for, when I told some fellow employees they all said I would be perfect for the job.

What the fuck???? My wife works for a law firm and I will go in a talk to the employment attorney andsee what he thinks.

Incidentaly there are many, many things going on at this place that is completely insane. Except for the excellent staff I wondfer how they manage to get ANYTHING to air. Whenever I think of the management of this place one word comes to mind...CLUSTERFUCK!

[Robb]

1. Have you talked to the person doing the hiring yet?

Just sort of "march your shit in" and ask to talk about exactly this -- why you seem to be standing still while people move up around you. Explain you don't understand how these decisions are made, that you want to do everything you can to help the company, that you have a record that backs this up, that you'd like to know what you can do to help raise the level of your reviews (if you have them), etc. etc. etc.

And, if that conversation is unsatisfactory, talk to an employment lawyer. :)

[Tripper11]

3. I already have Robb, that's part of the thing now....

I actually spoke to the GM after the first job I lost and point blank said, "Look I am not upset or disgruntled, but I just read the eomployee handbook regarding hiring practices etc. and it clearly sayd..blah blah...he retorted that he understood perfectly where I was coming from but maybe the HR felt that this other person was best suited."

Fair enough, I can't take rejection, but...for it to happen twice in a month?????

What I am doing is comiling a list of things that has and is currently ongoing there and I will ask for a meeting with the GM and lay out my grievances.

I have a good chance at another job (not my preferred field) that I should hear about on Monday. The only reason I haven't quit yet is because I needed the money.

Another thing, I have worked there, as I said for 2 years...not one performance review, not one raise, nothing...I even left there for a year to fight cancer and came back and was the one everyone called when they needed someone to work for them. I was always the "go to guy". I have requested a raise and it's taken over a month to get one, but as usual no one follows through. So I still have no idea what my new rate is.

[sandnsea]

10. Cancer???

Hmmm. Do you have medical? Would you get medical with the full time position? Just a thought.

[Tripper11]

12. Yes I would......

but because I am already covered under my wifes insurance I could refuse it here.

[sandnsea]

26. Do they know that?

I'm not sure what the law is on health insurance, but maybe the idea that possible cancer claims could drive up their insurance is why they aren't promoting you. I'm just speculating, I obviously have no idea what's going on in their minds.

[Tripper11]

27. NO they don't....

and it's pretty shitty that I would have to actually tell them something like this in order to get the job.

[sandnsea]

34. I agree

but it's worth trying. I guess.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Be aware

having a reputation as a litigious employee could hurt your chances elsewhere, in the future.

Unless you think you can get a sizable settlement from this situation, non-legal avenues may be better.

Anyway you could always just consult with an employment attorney.

[Tripper11]

4. I agree BlueEyedSon...

and please understand I am taking this extremely seriously.

As I mentioned above my wife works for a rather large law firm and I can get a a free consultation anyway.

[BlueEyedSon]

5. That's a perfect first step

emploment ain't what it used to be

[private_ryan]

6. yp

no one wants to hire a "troublemaker". Plus, why are you suing them? Not getting a job can't be one of them unless it's age, sex and so on discrimination.

They can just say we felt that the other people were better. End of story. Letterman didn't sue NBC when they hired Leno instead, it was their opinion that Leno was better.

[Nikia]

7. I don't know if you'd get very far

If your employee handbook is like our's, it specifically says that it is not a contract and that the company can change or disregard it at any time. We have a couple of long time temps, wanting full time positions, who have not been hired despite the fact that they have done a good job and that five outside people have been hired for similiar positions since these temps were eligible to be hired full time. Four of these outside people worked at a now closed business where a member of management used to work. The other is a wife of another employee. Your situation and theirs is unfair but I don't think that there are laws against such things unless you can prove discrimination based on your group status.

[DU9598]

9. Start asking questions

As an employment lawyer I see these situations all the time. Employers should want to hire the most qualified person to help their company - it is amazing how often prejudices and good-old-boy alliances play a part.

Don't overlook that your former cancer treatment. You probably caused the company's insurnace rates to rise and they probably fear that you may have additional absences in the future. If I were you, I would let this all pass for a few weeks. Then, start a little investigation on your own. Ask if coworkers are talking about your cancer ... or about whether you they fear your attendance may be hurt. Also, be sure to keep your ears open for any favoritism for the female employees. Do they have product parties that you are not allowed to attend or to which you have not been invited to? That may be why the woman HR person wants to fill the positions with another woman. Keep your ears open. Private message me if you want any more advise. I do these cases daily.

DISCLAIMER- the above is not meant to be legal advise, nor is it solicitation of business, if you live in Iowa.

[Tripper11]

11. I was NOT insured through this company...

it was through my wifes firm.

The ONLY reason I mention my cancer is because I just came back from it fairly quickly and stepped in and did my job like I had always done it.

I have absolutely no intention of using the "cancer card". At this point I really don't beleive it has anything to do with that.

I have talked to other employees about the HR person and she does have a reputation for not liking the staff in our radio department. We have 3 radio stations and a tv station under one roof.

I take your "opinion" DU9598 at face value and appreciate it. Trust me I am not going off half cocked. I will make sure to do everything I possibly can before doing something this drastic.

Part of the reason for this post is to blow off a little steam. Obviously I am very disappointed in this situation, yes I feel I have been treated unfairly. And to sue is the absolute last thing I want to do, and I do understand the ramifications if I should take it that far.

I love the business of radio, I really do. I don't want to burn any bridges either...but at the same time I am wrestling with the idea of when do you lay down and take it, and when do you finally take a stand and call shenanigans!!!!!

[Tripper11]

8. But the thing is....

of the 2 people hired over me, one had NO radio experience to my 8 years, and the other was an intern who had a year's worth of experience.

[RoeBear]

13. I would definitely pursue...

...the alternate job. It would appear that you aren't appreciated in your current job.

You've shown me no reason to be able to sue (and win).

[private_ryan]

14. it doesn't matter though

if sued she can say "he sucked" despite being there for 8 years. Or, he wasn't the best for THIS position. How can you argue? You think you are, she thinks you aren't.

She has the last say.....unless she hates men. You mentioned that she hired two women. You might want to check that out and turn the tables ;)

[Tripper11]

15. And that's what sucks.....

if you go into the department where I would have been working, there are only 1-2 men there.

And beleive me, I hate to have to think this way. I think that women are as equal in any job as men are. I really do...but it does consider one to pause. I even sorty of mentioned that to some of the other women I currently work with and even they agreed that something didn't seem quite right.

I dunno, like I said I am blowing off some steam here just discussing it, but I will poke my nose around a bit, nonchalantly and all, and see what stinks.

[private_ryan]

17. if a male employer had done the same to a woman

this would be Thread #3 by now.

[sangha]

19. There's a good reason for that

The laws which ban certain forms of discrimination require that the particular form of discrimination be proven to exist and they must document it's severity. Since gender discrimination against men is not so common as to present a ddanger to the social order, there is very little (or no) protection from it.

[private_ryan]

20. really?

so it's illegal only when a man discriminates against women, or, if anyone discriminates based on sex /gender?

[kiahzero]

30. Unless I'm mistaken

The statute bars gender discrimination, not male-against-female discrimination.

[sangha]

46. I mispoke

You're right, the law does bar gender discrimination. However, it's more difficult to prove due to there being so little anti-male discrimination. In a recent case, the laws against age discrimination were found to not apply to younger workers, but that's a little different because AFAIK age discrimination is not as well-documented as some other forms of discrimination such as sex discrimination.

So basically, I overstated my case. Though there is a good reason why discrimination against men is not as big or common a problem as that against women, it's not that the laws don't apply to discrimination against men, just as the Civil Rights Act does not apply only to racial discrimination against blacks. My apologies for the misleading post.

[Kamika]

16. Well, Did you ask why they hired the others?

I only know that Dad once promoted this older guy before a younger guy, even though the younger guy clearly worked better..

Because the older guy has like 4 kids and a wife and really needed the money while the younger guy was single

[Tripper11]

18. No I haven't....for a couple reasons...

one because I needed to chill a bit after this last one so I don;t say something stupid.
And 2, I have yet to think how to word it so as not to come across and angry, disgruntled or whatever.
Adn 3, because she's probably to lay some corporate speak on me that is as vague as can be.

[Dookus]

21. that's about the worst reason

for promoting someone I've ever heard.

The guy passed over should've sued your dad.

[Kamika]

24. lol

I would have liked to see that :D


Anyway I think it was nice, I'd do the same

[Dookus]

28. and then you should be sued, too

discrimination based on marital status is illegal. It's also immoral, as is any kind of discrimination based on anything other than one's ability to perform the job.

[Kamika]

29. heh ok

chill :)

Sometimes you gotta go by what's right and not what is law you know

[Dookus]

31. perhaps

but in this case the law IS right.

Your father's desire to discriminate is wrong.

I won't chill over discrimination.

[Kamika]

32. I dont see how it's wrong

Won't the guy who has a bunch of kids more use of the money then some guy who is single?

[Dookus]

37. first

it's illegal

Second, someone with huge gambling debts needs more money, too. Should he or she be given preference? Should someone with an expensive drug habit be preferred because they need the money? Should people with high credit card debt be given preference over the more fiscally responsible?

Should people who practice responsible birth control be punished in favor of those who don't?

Should gay people be discriminated against because they don't have children?

There are good reasons why it's illegal. People should be evaluated and promoted based on their job performance, not on their personal lifestyles.

on edit: For many years, women were similarly discriminated against because they weren't considered the "breadwinners". Promotions were given to the "family men". It was wrong then. It's wrong now.

[Kamika]

39. You know what

If every company today instead of kicking out old people or not hiring pregnant women etc, would do as my Dad does and actually care about his employees I think the US would be a MUCH better place.

[Dookus]

42. No

the world is better off WITHOUT discrimination.

I hope the guy your father passed over reads this and sues the hell out of him.

[Kamika]

43. hehe ok

Yeah you said that.

I doubt he'll do that though.

[Dookus]

45. well perhaps the EOC will

Boasting about discrimination in public is unwise.

[put out]

41. By that reasoning, the single person should get

discounts for food. Shelter. Transportation. Medical insurance.

Let me know how that works out when it is you getting passed over, denied raises or promotions, ignored because someone less qualified and less motivated has more dependents.

I have been there. It is incredible, the unfairness. I hope your father realized, eventually, that we all pay the same for food, petrol, all of life's necessities.

[RoeBear]

35. I see it a lot...

...the person with the saddest story wins. I think there was even a Seinfeld episode about that.

[Tripper11]

22. So what if????

I have been writing down a bunch of talking points to which I would like to discuss them with the GM.
I want to be calm, be thoughtful, respectful and honest.
I don't want to burn a bridge here, like I said before, I love the business (Yes I am a glutton for punishment ;-) )
I have had a conversation with the GM before and he was extremely reasonable, he even apologized to me for the HR person for her not calling to let me know that someone had already started in the position I was going for. I had to call her to get that news.
I just want him to realaize what's going on around him. I am really not sure he understands the scope of a lot of situations. For example, in the one news department, there is absolutely 0, I mean nothing, nada, zip moral. A lot of these excellent people are simply waiting for contracts to come up, are dusitng off their resumes and looking for other employment.
It has gotten pretty bad all around, and I am just one part of it.
I guess part of me is tired of being ignored, overlooked or what have you, and after having gone through something like cancer, I have a need to be able to get a little respect as a hard working dedicated eomplyee, along with others I work with.
The staff, not HR and management are by far some of the best people I have ever had the privalege to work with, but to coin a phrase...."the man is keeping us down!"

[readmylips]

23. They might be putting the squeeze on you to quit....

If you need your job, try not to show your anger to coworkers. Management has a way of using coworkers to spy on people they want to fire. They don't want to do the dirty job themselves. You can be sure that the slightest complaint about anybody against you, will be written down by your boss. They call it 'junk review.' When you face your boss with a complaint, they use the junk review against you. You were late twice, you took a long coffee brake, you're having coffee at desk, you're not a team player....etc. The boss will deny you a raise or a promotion. If you complaint, they'll throw the junk review at you. If you don't, they'll say, hey times are bad for the company, there's no raise. It is not to praise you but to brake you. If you quit and file a law suit, the junk review covers their asses.

Also, be careful using company e-mail for personal usage. The boss can sit in his office and read all your e-mails.

Sorry if this is not encouraging. I have experience in Human Resources training.

[Tripper11]

25. I have never used email for anything remotely connected to this

I appreciate what you are saying.

As for the "junk review" I have been late twice in the 2 years I worked there, and both times I called to let them know I was running late, unlike all the times others were late to take over for me and didn't even call. I actually went to work with cancer (although I didn't know it at the time) I was so sick, I called everyone I could to fill in for me, but of course no one could. I even tried to call my supervisor several times but he had left early one time and turned his cell phone off because he was celebrating his birthday. He felt awfully shitty when he found out why I was sick and trying to get a hold of him.

I have always, always showed up to work early, more then 15 minutes before my shift 90% of the time, I always came to work with a good disposition, did my job as best I could, worked hard, stayed extra when asked, filled in almost all the time when they needed someone last minute. Not to brag, but I wouldn't want to let a person like me go from a company.

[Onlooker]

33. Don't do it

If you sue, you'll just drag yourself through an awful process where a lot of individual people's weaknesses, including your own, will be exposed. It won't be worth it, even if you win.

I was in a similar situation, where my boss kept promoting people who were friends of his. I complained to him, and eventually he promoted me and, not only that, gave me the plum assignments (mostly because his buddies were lazy shits). I eventually left the company, but my boss helped me get a very generous severence package. (I was about to take a leave of absence, and my boss asked if I wanted to be laid off instead.)

If you make a case to your boss or human resources, don't make it personal. Make it a business case. That's all they'll respond to, if they're at all professional. Why would promoting you mean more money for the company? Simple as that. If all else fails, stay on good terms, and then try to find a new job. Chances are, if they like you or feel you were treated unfairly, they'll help you out in some small ways in that regard.

[Tripper11]

36. Points taken Onlooker...

and as I mentioned above, I have not made a decision one way or another. In my own naive way I have always thought that good honest hard work should be rewarded. Logically I know that's not the way things go.
There are certainly some clues to lead me to beleive something ain't quite right.
By having this conversation here, I can at least get some more perspective, and think it through. I would much prefer to discuss it with them on a business level, and I hope to do that.

When my wife mentioned my situation to the employment attorney at her work his first question to her was if I thought it might be due to my having had cancer.

[Onlooker]

40. Wow

I hope you're recovered. That's very interesting. My brother is a labor lawyer, and I'm sure he would agree there is discrimination based on one's health. That kind of changes my opinion. If you think you were penalized for health reasons, then you almost have an obligation to pursue it, but remember they're going to comb your personnel records for anything negative in the process. It's not going to make you healthier.

[RobinA]

38. No Suit

Not only would you look like a troublemaker, but I'm not sure I see what your position would be. They can promote any doofus they want. You don't have to like it or agree. Employment sucks, but it beats robbing banks for a living.

[Tripper11]

44. Just a quick update....

I don't want anyone to think I have dropped my end of the conversation on this, I appreciate everyone's word's and have taken them to heart.

I was scheduled to work so I won't be posting to this for awhile...if the thread stays alive I will post after work or something.

As I said a few times over vaious posts, it's not something I am sure I will pursue, it's nice to come here and get some others perspective.
It's just out of frustration that I want to stand up for myself and scream..you know?

Cheers DU!