Jack Cafferty: Parents, your kids aren't that special

[madinmaryland]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/03/03/cafferty.excerpt.2/index.html

GET OFF MY LAWN....

..snip

I don't know the status of parenting in America. But I know a little about the status of education in America. Parents' growing inability to impose manners and limits on their kids when the kids are in school is reflected in record dropout rates, as well as teen drug and alcohol abuse, teen sex, and unwed pregnancies. Maybe it's parenting that's on the decline, more than the schools. Watch Jack Cafferty talk about "Now or Never" in The Situation Room" »

Exhibit A: My wife and I have just been seated for dinner when the maitre d' walks over and seats a young family at the table next to us and the kids start carrying on like orangutans on a leash.

The parents are going, "Timmy, that's not nice, don't throw your food, stop stuffing your mashed potatoes up your nose." Are mom and dad having fun yet, picking food up off the floor, apologizing to people like us, and wiping food flung across the table off their faces?

Some parents still have this attitude that their kids are too special to be burdened by discipline. And the rest of us are supposed to put up with their little mutants. That attitude really pisses me off.

I hate to break it to them, but the kids aren't special, and I don't have to put up with their behavior. If you can't control your obnoxious little brats, leave them home.

..snip

:popcorn:

[TZ]

1. Trying to start the week off with a bang I see...

:rofl: oh and :popcorn:

[BeachBaby]

2. Damn.

He hit the nail on the head. :thumbsup:

[madinmaryland]

4. Well, if I'm going to a good restaurant, it is to have a peaceful and enjoyable

dinner.

[BeachBaby]

6. Exactly.

And I've been lambasted at DU in the past for expressing this very same thing.

Bottom line: Restaurants should reserve the right to specify what is, and is not, allowed in their restaurant. I see absolutely nothing wrong with restaurants adopting/enforcing "adults only" or "family-friendly" policies.

[alarimer]

25. Me too.

I don't expect peace and quiet at most, if not all, chain restaurants. So I don't get bent out of shape about noise at, say, Olive Garded or Joe's Crab Shack because those (especially Joe's) are already loud.

But if I am at a nicer restaurant for my birthday or some other special occasion, then I do get upset at unruly children (or unruly adults for that matter).

[HopeHoops]

3. I fully agree. We've never hit the kids but always made it clear what the rules were.

If behavior was not acceptable, we made it clear on the spot and if it persisted, we made it even more clear after the fact. I used past tense here even though they are all still minors (13, 15, 17) because it has been a LONG time since we had to even correct a minor behavior while out in public.

We also set down a rule without wiggle room - if you whine, the answer is "no". I'm sick of parents who say "no" twenty-five times and then give in if "you'll just be quiet". The kids know they own the parents.

[MorningGlow]

5. I'll post here what I posted in the GD thread about this

I disagree with the premise entirely. All children are special enough to HAVE discipline imposed upon them so they grow up to be decent human beings.

[HopeHoops]

7. Okay, I can go with that interpretation. I have an alternate way of phrasing Cafferty's statement

"Parents: you aren't good parents if you are too afraid to BE parents and do the JOB of parents!" That means setting down rules and enforcing them.

[MorningGlow]

8. Much better--it shouldn't be put on the kids like that

And to be fair, the column doesn't really follow the headline. I know that most columnists don't choose their own headlines, but damn, what editor came up with that one? It's the cruelest line I've ever seen.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Yes. Very well put. Most children want parents to set limits on their behavior,

even though they constantly push the envelope to find out just where those limits are. Discipline is not a bad word and it is not punishment. It's more like training and should be taught from a very early age. If parents don't teach manners and respect for others, it's hard to hold a young child responsible for their bad behavior.

I've known people who do a better job of socializing their dogs than they do their children.

[BeachBaby]

11. I used to be very close with a former neighbor of mine....

whose son played with my son.

Now, I can get along with pretty much anybody....but she made it extremely difficult. Why? Because her son was, for all intents and purposes, Satan incarnate. Just unbelievably rotten, disrespectful behavior. And every time her son did something totally out of line (which was pretty much a constant thing), she would respond to him with "Now, Matt, you know that isn't nice" or "Matt, please honey, I know you didn't mean to do that".

The particular event that I remember was absolutely horrifying, then and now. Both Matt and my son were 8 years old. My son came running into the house one day, scared to death. He ran right past me, up the stairs, and locked himself in his room. At the same time I was trying to figure out what was going on with my son, I looked out the window. There was Matt - with an AXE. Yes, you read that right. He was chasing my son with his father's wood-chopping axe. When I looked out the window, he was standing on my front lawn, slamming the blade of the axe into the grass - over and over.

I called Matt's mother, and as calmly as I could muster, explained to her what was going on. She didn't freak, or apologize....but said she'd be right over.

Around the block she comes. By that point, I had gone outside and told Matt to give me the axe. He refused, and told me that I am not his boss. So I stood there on my front porch, waiting for his mom. She walks up and says to Matt "Now, honey, you know your father wouldn't be happy that you're playing with his tools. Now give me the axe". He SCREAMS "NO!" and takes off running down the street. She looks at me and says "Well, my husband will be home soon anyway. Matt will hand it to him."

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

A long story to give you the grand finale.....one day, she and I were sitting on my deck while the kids were in school. We got talking about our kids' report cards, and I mentioned how pleased I was that both my sons got major kudos from their teachers, for their good behavior, cooperation in class, and respect for others. She asked me how my sons turned out "so good", while her son was, as she described him, "ornery". I simply said "I don't let them call the shots". Her reply (you ready?):

"Well, I've heard you raise your voice to them, BB. And to be honest, I just don't think that's healthy for a child. I never want Matt thinking badly of me - and besides, I can't believe that raising my voice to him is good for his self-esteem".

Matt is now 13 years old - and I am happy to report that I live far, far away from them now.

[MorningGlow]

16. Holy SHIT.

That's some prize-winning bad parenting right there. ZOINKS! :scared:

Yeahhhh it's bad to raise your voice at your child but it's okay to let him run around the neighborhood with an axe. That makes perfect sense. :crazy:

And these are the parents who are shocked--shocked!--when the kid ends up with an arrest record.

I can see the kids nextdoor to us ending up the same way, unfortunately, mainly because their father's parenting alternates between getting stoned and ignoring them completely, and yelling at them. These kids have always treated our yard like theirs, which we don't appreciate--especially when that suddenly includes playing right under our living room windows, on our back deck, on our front stoop, etc. They have absolutely no knowledge of boundaries, and he hasn't taught them, obviously. We have asked them nicely and not so nicely not to play in our yard, especially because our house is undergoing major renovation and the yard is downright hazardous (I won't even let my kid play out there without me right now--it's that bad).

They have ignored us and keep taking over our yard, so we put up a stockade fence. We also had to take down a tree on their side because it was too close to our house foundation. Apparently the middle child (10 yrs old) didn't like either action and took it personally. She started waging war on us, including poisoning the tomato plants in my garden. (I still don't know what she smeared on them, but it worked like a charm. I think it was Skin So Soft.)

After some other events, including the youngest throwing things at our house in full view of Mr. MG, who lost it on them, I finally (belatedly, I admit it) went to talk to the father and told him everything. He a) denied they did it; b) admitted they did things when he had been a witness but said he "told them it wasn't nice"; and c) told me I was overreacting when I said I thought he should speak to his kids before they ended up with a juvie record.

Ya can't fix stupid.

[Deep13]

15. "All children are special enough..."

I think I agree with your sentiment, but doesn't saying they are all special kind of like saying they are all above average?

[MorningGlow]

17. Not at all

I mean that all children should be valued and loved enough to be parented to within an inch of their lives to ensure they realize their full potential, whatever it may be. But NO child should EVER be told "You know what? You're just not that great." I consider that child abuse.

[Deep13]

19. Sure, that's all true.

"Just not that great" is ironic and means "pretty damn bad." So I agree with you there. Sarcasm is never helpful. I agree with your general view, but I really don't see every child as being "special." And if basic supportiveness and decency are the standard, then they don't need to be special.

[MorningGlow]

21. I think the disparity is the assigning of blame

What I mean is, "not that great" being put on the child as a reason the parents should discipline them. Instead, I would say "Parents: You're just not that great...at parenting".

As for every child being special, I don't equate "every child is special" with "every child is THE best and should be allowed to get away with murder". I mean that every child is different--a unique individual--and therefore should never be written off as "meh--just average". The goal of parents and other caregivers is to find out what makes them special and help them develop their best traits.

[Deep13]

23. Right.

"Best" begs the question, best at what? And that is something to be earned. And even if the kid is the best student, best behaved, best ball-player or whatever, it is not a license for being inconsiderate. Frankly, I would never say "meh-just average." I don't know where "average" got its negative connotation, but being an average 21st century child is actually quite an accomplishment.

[quakerboy]

24. Welp,

They should/could all be above the average of what exists now.


Either that, or in most all ages nothing really changes ever. One facet of existence improves while another devolves, and in the end we end up the same on average.

[Deep13]

39. If they all far better than the previous generation...

...then that new, higher benchmark is now average by definition.

"Average" is not a put-down. It is the properly functioning norm.

[quakerboy]

40. Ah, but what will you include in your averages?

All children in the year 2009? all children in the years 89-09? all the children in the years 1009 to 2009. And then, which aspects of those children will you be choosing to average?

Do todays kids have above average manners in retail establishments than the average over the past 200 years? Probably not. Are the kids now less likely to grow up to beat a gay man to death just for being gay? I would guess yes.

One thing gets better. Another devolves. In the end people are still people.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

9. I wonder what he thinks of Indigo Children

:hide:

[TZ]

10. !

:rofl:

[BeachBaby]

12. ....

:spray:

[Marrah_G]

20. You so baaaaad

[Deep13]

14. Sustained! nt

[KitchenWitch]

18. As a parent of two children, I am inclined to agree with Mr. Cafferty on this one

[geardaddy]

22. I love it. n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

26. Truth be told, kids misbehaving in restaurants don't bother me.

I eat out frequently enough that it doesn't ruin the meal for me.

And, the midlets have always been exceptionally well behaved in restaurants. So much so that people would compliment us when we were eating out somewhere that was usually a kid free zone, like the Taverns in Williamsburg. They knew what we expected in terms of behavior and performed.


I understand folks getting upset about a nice dinner being ruined, but in all honesty, it just doesn't bother me. I prefer kid chatter over obnoxious drunk adults on their cell phones.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

27. That's because you're a mom

I can block out drunk people way better than I can block out a screaming child. And, why don't people take their screaming kids outside? I was never allowed to act like that in public.

[Midlodemocrat]

28. Seriously, why do people do all sorts of stupid things?

Some parents bought into the whole 'ignore the temper tantrum' way too much without regard for the affect that the kid's behavior is having on the rest of the world.

Midlets never did that. No temper tantrums, ever. Not sure why, but it's true.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

30. Yeah, like my parents would sometimes let us burn ourselves out at home

But in public? No way. We'd get taken out right away, and if we didn't chill, we were going home.

[madinmaryland]

31. Ours never was a nuisance in public. Just a couple of things will make

sure they don't get out of control. Have something for them to do (ALWAYS!!) Coloring, books, games. etc. and even something to munch on if the service is slow. An entertained child is a happy child!

[madinmaryland]

29. Actually, they both would bother me. Though since we don't go out very

often just the two of us, we want to be able to enjoy our dinner. Whether it be screaming children or drunk adults on their cellphones, they would both ruin the dinner.

That said, I don't think I have ever been out to dinner when drunk adults have ruined the dinner. Mostly its been screaming children.

[Midlodemocrat]

32. I don't blame you. I'm just saying it doesn't bother me.

My favorite restaurant here is a Spanish one with a bar that gets a lot of traffic. As the night wears on, it gets a little obnoxious. So far, I haven't encountered a screaming kid there, though.

JMHO.

[madinmaryland]

33. Why would you blame me?? :confused:

Though I have been in restaurants that are really more just drinking establishments that happen to serve food. And yes, I have been with groups that got obnoxiously loud (including myself). :blush:

[Midlodemocrat]

34. LOL. No, I don't blame you for being ticked about kids

ruining your dinner.

[Arkansas Granny]

36. Kid chatter doesn't bother me either, but kid yelling and screaming does.

Another thing that bothers me is parents who let their kids leave the table to roam around the restaurant while Mom & Dad finish their meal. Not a safe thing to do with staff carrying hot food around and doors leading to bush parking lots and streets.

[Bucky]

35. I found that tasers, minus a few seconds of rapid convulsing, really settle kids down fast

Most interestingly, if there's more than one kid being annoying, it still only takes one shot to calm down the room.

[amitten]

37. There's a magical, mystical creature called the "Babysitter"...

For some reason, today's parents have forgotten such a thing exists.

(It does. Use one.)

[madinmaryland]

38. That's what my wife and I call "date night". Funny, but we still end

up talking about our daughter.