Am I a heathen for not taking my kids to church on Sundays?

[Mr. Ected]

My mother thoroughly chastised me last night for failing my children.

She pointed out that she had brought me and my brother to church every Sunday, unfailingly, and that I should be doing the same thing for my young boys.

I pointed out to her that my wife and I are doing our best to instill our moral compasses in our children, and that the road to 'heaven' does not lead through a building. Our kids are 2 of the kindest and most gracious children that I've ever met...and we're told the same by teachers, neighbors and friends.

I left my mom in tears last night...and now I'm perplexed.

I'm not a particularly religious person, and I don't want to be a hypocrite with my kids.

But the guilt...

[Deja Q]

1. If every sperm is sacred, do you know how many men would be chastised for not going alone on Sunday?

:hide:

[Unvanguard]

2. I have no idea whether or not it makes you a "heathen", but it does not make you a bad person.

And that's what matters.

[Swede]

3. This is a dilemma,for sure.

The previous generation sees the world very differently that we do,and the younger generation sees it different from us. It sounds to me like you are doing fine.

[JonLP24]

4. Thank god for people like you

My grandma often took to me The Door (AKA Potter's House) growing up and what a crazy house that place is. My aunt & uncle still regularly attend and I don't visit them. Every time I do they pressure me to attend and last time my mom went to a BBQ with them with a bunch of church folk. Predictably they think Obama is a communist and an Arab.

Last time I went to The Door was 2001 when I was 14 going on 15 and after 9/11 the preacher was going on how lucky we are having a god fearing President with military background. He said if Al Gore was President we would be at war with China(referring to the spyplane incident.) Little did I know how full of shit he was and it was Gore with the actual military experience.

[rcrush]

5. Ugh I hate the religious guilt trip

I tuned it all out a long time ago and decided to live my own life.

[Dangerously Amused]

6. You are a heathen for many reasons, but non-hypocrisy is not one of them.

:7

[Mr. Ected]

7. AMEN!

[madamesilverspurs]

8. Heathen?

Guess not going to church makes me one, too. Like you, I grew up in a family that was very big on going to church. That said, I've been pretty much un-churched for almost thirty years. Never discussed my decision with either parent but didn't hide it, either. I'm very comfortable with my membership among the "called out," which has no walls. As a good friend puts it: It won't be my buttprint on a pew that gets me into heaven!

There's a bumper sticker that declares "My mother is a travel agent for guilt trips." Past tense, in my case, as my mother learned years ago that she could no longer 'guilt' me into doing stuff. But from 1500 miles away she can still annoy me into action...

[JitterbugPerfume]

9. I was in church every Sunday,

Sunday evening and Wednesday evening My dad took my sister to church the night I was born (when he came home he was greeted by his later to be athiest daughter)

priorities

[Strong Atheist]

10. "But the guilt,,,"

That says it all... x(

[philosophie_en_rose]

11. Don't take them to church for your mom's sake.

If they express interest, let them try a church you trust, but taking them out of guilt isn't going to help.

[Arugula Latte]

12. Don't do it! You are doing your kids a big favor by NOT taking them to church.

Ugh -- Church. Nothing worse. x(

[Lex]

13. I think I'd want my kids to understand right from wrong withOUT reference to

or reliance upon any particular religion. 'Moral compass' and compassion and empathy and doing the right thing all stand on their own, imho.

[Orsino]

14. Not at all...

...but you would probably just have to take them home again afterward. Why bother?

Seriously, your children's religious upbringing is between you and your immediate family. Your mother wants your children forced to go, and wants to force you to take them? Fuck that. I see this as your kids' chance to find their own ways toward whatever gods they choose, as consenting adults. They could have the choice that you weren't allowed.

If you have to suffer some guilt to keep them free, well, that's only one of many sacrifices you make as a parent.

[av8rdave]

15. If so, than so am I

[KittyWampus]

16. not at all. You've simply rejected the choice to automatically engage in traditional behavior

simply because it's traditional.

Children should be free to choose when they want to go to a house of worship.

I do think helping them become familiar with a variety of religious precepts and figures and writings is wise, though. It's a cultural literacy thing. And also a step in understanding philosophical frameworks.

But that could be done at home at your family's leisure.

[RagAss]

17. No. You are above the guilt driven bullshit.

"The kingdom of heaven is alive in you"

I believe Jesus said that. If so, why sit next to some other asshole in a tax free building every Sunday?

[JitterbugPerfume]

18. Don't tell me what God is until you can tell me what we are

I love that!

If someone is unable to see whatever god they chose ( or do not chose) in the cosmos ,or a single molecule then it is useless to me.

[RagAss]

43. Thanks.

[EndersDame]

19. They will love you for not boring them to death and not cramming hatred down their throats

My parents took us to church to start out with but then stopped going. I personally hated going itchy uncomfortable clothes people droning on and on . Blech. My great-Aunt took us occasionally when were preteens and was glad I missed all the brimstone and fear mongering . I remember being told that Buddhists were indirectly related to Satanism and we should be scared . What a crock of shit

[Bravo Zulu]

20. Do you know the difference between a Casino and a Church?

The people praying in a Casino really mean it!

[Heidi]

21. If you keep on this way, your two little ones in 20 years will be calling you

a "hero" despite what your mom and the others say to the contrary.

Children do not take well to being browbeaten on spiritual matters. Raise them to be good, compassionate, discerning human beings. Raise them to understand the value of self-discipline -- not the bullying, scare-the-hell-out-of-'em-in-order-to-save-their-souls approach. Teach them to respect others' faith paths, including their grandmother's faith path, and teach them that it's a matter of respect to maybe visit her church a couple of important holidays a year -- not because they buy the whole deal, but because they love their grandmother.

In order to do this, though, you're probably gonna have to assert yourself to your mother. She loves you, though, and she'll survive your will to do right by your kids.

[Schema Thing]

22. Nothing good goes on in a church

nothing.




At it's very best, church is otherwise decent folk standing up and presuming to speak for god or presuming they know more about god than others.

[HopeHoops]

23. Oh yeah, going to church automatically makes you an ethical person with a ticket to Heaven

Just ask the GOP.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[marzipanni]

24. Go to church, sit for a while, then get in your car and

experience someone's road rage getting out of the parking lot? ;)
Jesus would probably say people should visit a nursing home, or soup kitchen, or do something else for those who have less than you, not go to a building to sing praises to Our Heavenly Dad so the "in crowd" can feel warm and fuzzy together.

Taking a walk and enjoying "God's creation" (if you believe in God) is a nice thing for a family to do together.

If your sons are kind and gracious you have been teaching than more than any once-a-week Sunday school parable has to offer.

P.S. My son is 14, has had the same complimentary things told to us as you have about your sons, and he has never been to church. :hi:

[jazzjunkysue]

25. Welcome to Athiests Anonymous. You're not going to hell if there isn't one.

And, in case you haven't noticed, none of the so-called believers actually live their lives as if judgment day were actually coming.
It's lip service, and that will undoubtedly confuse your kids.

Next time she complains to you, throw her a "Throwing stones in glass houses" and "turn the other cheek" and she'll at least shut up.

But she'll never get the point: God isn't church. You're already in God, or you wouldn't even be here.

[dana_b]

26. ahhhh.. the guilt

you have to follow what is in you heart and mind. Kids can sense when you're not really behind something. Of course you love your mom and don't want to disappoint her but it is your and your children's lives.

[DainBramaged]

27. As my Mom once told me church is wherever you are

the house of God is most often a bank for the evil. Not going to church hasn't made me any less of a Christian.

[Bill219]

28. Let me tell you a little story...

From the day I was born my grandmother, rest her soul, wanted me to be a priest. She rode roughshod over my mother and forced me to go to a catholic church 3 days a week and CCD every Monday night. Bible studies and scripture reading every friggin night. When I was old enough I was forced into becoming an altar boy. I was associated with the church in this way up until I turned 15. All I knew of life up until that point was one day I was going to make grandmother and my family proud and become a priest.

One day, I was talking with my priest and a sudden revelation came upon me. I was asking all sorts of questions about my religion and why I should devote my life to it and he could not answer one of them truthfully with out spouting religious dogma back at me. My eyes were opened on that day and I realized that it was all a bunch of crap and went home and cried because of all the years that I had wasted on religion.

It broke my grandmother's heart when I told her that I no longer wanted to be a priest and I was denouncing anything having to do with religion. Our relationship was never the same. She apologized to me before she died a few years ago.

My wife's mother is very religious and has been trying to let us take our 6 year old to church. He has never shown any interest in church so we told her no. We both get the weekly guilt trip when the topic comes up.

One day when my son is old enough, if he wants to explore religion, he is more than welcome to, but I will damned if my child is going to forced to subscribe to a religion or beliefs that he has no say in the matter.

[hippywife]

29. No.

They are your children to raise, and no one elses. Being a hypocrite about these things has many more adverse effects than standing on your principles.

Your mother may be disappointed for awhile but if she loves you and your kids, she will get over it even if she never accepts it.

:hi:

[rrneck]

30. If it takes

a guilt trip to get you to show up it's not much of a religion.

[MorningGlow]

31. If that's the case, then Goddess bless the heathens

I'm with you, Mr. Ected. I was raised Catholic but never cottoned to the faith. (I started getting suspicious of it when I was about 12 or 13.) I had been a practicing witch for about 10 years when my son was born, and we had a wiccaning for him (members of my coven welcomed him to the world with blessings--a lovely ceremony--think the first scene of Sleeping Beauty...without the angry fairy godmother). However, I refused to baptize him, because of the hypocrisy--as part of the baptism ceremony, Mr. MG and I would have had to promise to raise MG Jr. as a Catholic, and we had no intention of doing that.

My mom isn't really devout, so when I told her she wasn't so concerned for MG Jr's eternal soul, but she was confused as to why we weren't conforming to tradition. But my aunt (my mom's sister), whom I refer to as a fundie Catholic, practically had a stroke. She is convinced I have condemned my son's soul to hell for not having a priest remove his original sin. She hasn't forgiven me (hasn't forgiven me and Mr. MG for not getting married in a church, either), but my mom forbids her from giving me shit about it. She still seethes at how my son--ironically, like your boys, one of the most kind, considerate, and compassionate children you'll ever meet--is being raised "without faith". :eyes:

I think what we're dealing with is an outmoded conditioning--previous generations live in dire fear of going to hell if they don't obey and conform to traditions even if they don't quite know the reasons for them (like my mom). More recent generations have rejected blind obedience, and thank goodness.

Is there any way to ask your mother what she fears with this situation? (Because sure as shootin' she's afraid of something, most likely the boogey man Satan.)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. I say this as a practicing Christian and a preacher's kid:

Don't take your children to church unless it's something that you want to do for its own sake. Above all, don't send them alone just you and your spouse can have some private time.

On the other hand, if you're not unalterably opposed to religion, maybe you could find a church that you actually liked.

I once had a gentleman friend who was basically not religious but said that he was grateful for his religious upbringing because 1) It had taught him how to behave at a formal public occasion, and 2) He had gained a lot of cultural knowledge through his church's youth education program, so that when he studied literature in college, he understood the illusions right away.

So do what you think is right.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. Just keep telling mom to trust God and trust you and that everything will be all right. Personally,

I am not sure I would go to church or bring my kids to one if I had not married into a conservative evangelical family. (Or at least I would have taken them to a theologically liberal one.)

But the statement I made in my subject heading is the one that I have used with my husband over the years and it seemed to defuse a lot of tension. Beyond that, we just don't get into discussions about religion or politics, which also helps. You and your mom may find that helpful as well.

I hope you can work things out, though. I completely understand your guilt. I have dealt with it myself for years, albeit for a slightly different reason. :hug:

[madmom]

34. Not in my book. I have two children. When they where young they went to

church if and when they wanted to. Several different churches with friends and alone (never with me or hubby, both atheists)Today one is atheist the other a christian.So does it really matter, in the end they both decided when they were adults.

[deucemagnet]

35. Another heathen showing support!

I won't presume to tell you how to deal with your family or raise your kids, but I know the first 20 years of my life would have been a lot happier if I didn't have to deal with religious bullshit foisted upon me.

[ZombieHorde]

36. I am sorry your mother is acting silly and being hurtful.

Be firm, be polite, and believe in yourself.

[TommyO]

37. Is your mother raising your children, or are you?

Your mother's tears are her issue, you have to make it clear that your children are your responsibility and that you will take them to church when you and your wife see fit.

[Zavulon]

38. No, you're raising your kids your way, and kudos to you. Your mother is completely out of line.

Kids aren't stupid, and when they detect hypocrisy in their parents, it's never good.

Tell your mother this: "As appealing as it is to think about explaining to the kids why the priest says it's better to give than receive just before he passes around the collection plate in his tax-free church, they're MY kids and I'll raise them MY way."

If you've got the stomach for it, throw this in as well: "Next time you have an opinion on my kids and church, stuff a (fucking) sock in it. Your complaint has been noted and repeating it is not going to result in me changing my mind. The next time I hear anything from you on this subject I will take it as a deliberate attempt to provoke."

Edited to add that you have no reason to feel guilty, and that your guilt is nothing more than your mother's desired result when she started giving you shit about this. Stop feeling guilty; don't let your mother get away with that sort of manipulative bullshit.

[I Have A Dream]

39. No. nt

[Mr. Ected]

40. I don't know if this is customary

But I'd like to thank each and every one of you for your honest and insightful responses.

Sometimes the battles we wage in our minds and in our hearts are simplified and clarified by the experiences of others.

It's one of the reasons I love DU as much as I do...and why I especially appreciate my friends in the Lounge. Thanks to all of you.

[Arugula Latte]

45. My answer was flippant, but, seriously, I think one of the main functions of church

is to socialize people so they don't question. Not questioning is very convenient for religion. Critical thinking is a key skill to have in many areas, in my opinion, and you are doing your kids a favor by not having them subjected to dogma every Sunday morning.

[Iggo]

41. "My kids, mom. Got that?"

Try it.

[hedgehog]

42. I think many people who either hate religion or couldn't care

less about it were taken to church at an early age because of social pressure on the parent.

[jakefrep]

44. No

You would be doing them a bigger disservice by taking them to church and half-heartedly going through the motions solely to placate your mother.

The beautiful thing about freedom of religion is freedom from religion. Everyone is able to pursue their faith on their own terms.

[Brigid]

46. I go because I enjoy going.

If someone else just doesn't feel the same way, that is none of my business. And as for your mother, well, she's not your kids' parent. Sure, you should teach your kids to be respectful, but apparently you're already doing that. Can some fundie parents say the same?

[Flaxbee]

47. I think religion should be chosen, not forced.

And if you take kids from an early age, it's indoctrination, and repression (don't ask difficult questions). If, as an adult, your child wants to explore spirituality, great.

But then again, I think organized religion is one of the great evils of civilization.

[proteus_lives]

48. This is a toughie.

They are your kids, teach them as you see fit. But mom-tears? That's Emotional Kryptonite.

How about a comprise. Let your mom take the kids to church one Sunday and let them decide for themselves. If nothing else, let them have a day with grandma.

[Rob H.]

49. No

My parents never took me or my brother to church when we were kids because they wanted us to make up our own minds. Your mother may not like it, but believe me, years from now your kids are going to be grateful that you raised them the way you did.

[jobycom]

50. If you don't believe that church is the best way to achieve your goals

then there's no reason to take your children to church. I'm an atheist, so it would be silly for me. You say you're not particularly religious, so you've decided that religion isn't the best way to achieve your spiritual goals. I can't imagine why you'd want to bring your kids to church if that's the case.

To me, the surest way to teach a kid to be a hypocrite or to be in denial about themselves is to force something on them "for their own good" that you don't believe is for their own good. The kids will know your real opinion. At best, they'll just think of you are phony on the issue. At worst, they will develop that belief that one should go through the motions rather than developing a real sense of morality and spirituality.

On the other hand, if you are perplexed and feeling guilty, maybe there is something in you that wants it, too. Or maybe it's just that we hate to disappoint our parents, and that's the source of your guilt. Only you can know that one.

Just my useless observations. Probably wrong, as always. :)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

51. Shake the guilt RIGHT NOW -

sounds like you and your wife have thought it out and you're doing just fine. Your kids sound wonderful.

Look, speaking as a mother-in-law and a grandmother, I am telling you that your mother had her chance to raise her kids, and she did a good job. Now it's your turn.

There is more than one way to raise a child, and your way is your way.

Tears are rough, I know, but they're also - albeit unintentionally - very manipulative. Don't fall for them.

They're your kids. You do what's best for them. Just as your mother did for her kids .........................

[rurallib]

52. tell your mom to go to church every day and pray for you

and check back in 20 years.
No - they are your kids.
I would be a little concerned also if Mama was trying to feed religion to them behind your back.