If I hear the word Cougar one more time.....

[WCGreen]

Just another sleazy way to objectify women...

[flvegan]

1. What if it's the Adidas Kooger?

[WCGreen]

5. that's a homophone...

[Bucky]

31. What's it got to do with gay rights?

Your big words confuse me.

[LeftyFingerPop]

2. I hate that word when it's used like that.

Same with MILF...sounds like something a 16 year old would say.

[GOPisEvil]

3. This is my kind of Cougar.

http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/9320796/mufp_0606_03_z+1968_mercury_cougar_XR_7+rear.jpg

Thanks for the image mustangandfords.com.

[Gold Metal Flake]

6. Vintage ad

[Arugula Latte]

38. My son (age 12) made that ad our computer wallpaper last week.

I see that ad several times a day now. :)

[Gold Metal Flake]

53. He should order a restoration parts catalog.parts

Free, I think, from autokrafters.com or mustangsunlimited.com. Then again, you may not want him to drag a dilapidated Cougar home when he hits 16.

We just sold our 1968.

[Arugula Latte]

85. Thanks for the tip!

He LOVES mustangs. I'll give those links to him.

I know nothing about cars (or sports, for that matter) but my son is expanding my world. :)

:hi:

[Gold Metal Flake]

89. Cool. If he must get into restoring a car, better it be a Mustang.

A Mustang is much easier to restore than a Cougar, because of the availability of used parts and the huge amount of excellent reproduction parts. A nice '65 coupe is a perfect candidate.

[Richardo]

26. My very first car - 1968 Coug for $800

:hearts:

[madmom]

82. Ha! my very first car was a 1970 Cougar, paid $1200. I too loved it! : )

[Deja Q]

4. I prefer Leopard.

Snow Leopard.


That's one big kitty. With those oh-so-sultry eyes! :rofl:

Meow, man!

[eauclaireliberal]

80. The Snow Leopards of Minnesota

One of Garrison Keillor's funniest skits.

[madinmaryland]

7. Nice post, John Cougar Mellencamp!

:D

[WCGreen]

12. Hey, I gotta get attention somehow...

[jobycom]

8. Women ARE objects.

Hell, check out DU. What's one more word more or less? It's the whole damn patriarchal society we live in.

[Fleshdancer]

9. ....

I think you're awesome

:hug:

[jobycom]

10. ...

You're awesomer!

[MissMillie]

30. .....

:thumbsup:

:yourock:

[Nuclear Unicorn]

46. sad but true

I would have thought women would be safe around progressives.

350 posts later and I'm fairly stressed out.

[petronius]

11. How about puma?

:shrug:

[Robeson]

13. I think this thread would go a lot longer, if you had said....

..."I want to create a Cougar thread that never dies." Especially in the Lounge...:P

[WCGreen]

14. Good point!!!!

[Juche]

15. How does it objectify women?

I thought women who were cougars willingly took on the title.

And I don't see how it objectifies women, since in a cougar relationship it is the woman who is more mature and looking for a sex object. If anything the man is being sexually objectified in a stereotypical cougar-cub relationship.

[WCGreen]

16. By affixing a name to a certain type of woman...

That's pretty much the idea of objectifying now isn't it?

And it's being used in a derogatory manner.

But hey, to each his/her own...

[Juche]

19. Not if women take on the label themselves

No, its not objectifying women if the woman calls herself one. If a woman asks you not to call her a cougar, and you do anyway then yes that is rude. If a woman calls herself a cougar and a man goes along with it, then that is fine by me.

If women want to break men down into categories based on appearance and income, then relate to them as 'useful' or 'not useful' objects that is their thing. I find it rude and offensive and wouldn't go out with one though. But if a man goes along with it then that is his prerogative.

[Juche]

76. I've never considered it derogatory

Maybe thats why I'm confused. I've always considered it a compliment. A cougar is a woman who is mature, wants excitement, has healthy self esteem and is self sufficient enough that she doesn't need to find a man with a good paycheck to take care of her. So what she goes after in men is different.

[LynneSin]

25. So do we have a name for Men who want to date really young women

well other than asshole?

[Chan790]

32. Cradle-robber?

There are several that are used locally here in NYC to refer to a certain class of old pompous asshats who won't date women older than 22, but none that I am aware of has any cache beyond the 5 Boroughs and Westchester.

[question everything]

33. No, of course not. Men are allowed

Look at the movies. We have had several where the women who played the older one, like "the Graduate" or even "Rome" where not that much older than the younger who were their sons.

Of course, Hollywood is full of older men and younger women but when it is reversed - it is news!

[Chan790]

42. It's not necessarily news when it's older women and younger men...

just another thing for a certain over-sensitive cry-over-anything brigade (by which I mean "PC warriors") to get their underwear in a twist over. It's only newsworthy and controversial because some people have an issue with any social taxonomy even when it's self-selected...which in all ironies, "cougar" was as a term.

I'll let you in on a secret, knowing a fairly good number of actors...most of the single available older women of moderate success (meaning regularly-working talent who you would recognize on the street) in that cadre whom I know are dating (or casually-f%cking) men under 25...there is no actual gender issue borne out by reality here, but that doesn't stop people from trying to imply one. People will do what they want to do if they can...if you can date someone much younger than you and you want to, you will and that is not behaviorally-confined to men.

How little you, being outside of the industry, hear about it bears out exactly how wrong you are.

[Bucky]

40. I believe men who date younger women are called Melloncamps.

[Shell Beau]

74. Oh no!

:P

[Drunken Irishman]

47. Sugar Daddy's.

[Juche]

48. This is why I'm confused

Men who date younger women are assholes.

Women who date younger men aren't allowed to even be called cougars (despite using that term themselves) because it objectifies them.

To me it makes as much sense as men who date 21 year old girls being upset and feeling objectified because someone calls him a 'sugar daddy'.

Men are monsters, women are victims.

Got it.

[LynneSin]

49. Well the confusion is this

With men, no one makes a big stink about it - in fact we almost expect that wealthy men, after having a few kids with their first wife, will naturally want to turn in those wives for a 2nd "Trophy" wife. I mean hell, Donald Trump seems to turn his wives in every 10 years or so. How many updates has Mick Jaggar had? It's just disgusting but no one really makes a big stink about it.

But I remember when Cher first dated Rob Camaletti aka "The Bagel Boy" as the press dubbed him. They made a big stink about.

Honestly, I don't care who dates whom and the age difference - I just wish the press would either treat them equally or just ignore the concept all together.

[WCGreen]

56. That really was my point....

But of course it is almost immpossible to make any kind of statement here on DU that doesn't cause some shit storm...

[LynneSin]

58. This is the DU lounge, shit storm capital of the world

:hide:

[Juche]

59. We are talking about something different then

I thought the discussion was objectifying women as objects by breaking them into categories (cougars, milfs, etc). My point was that if women voluntarily called themselves cougars, it isn't rude to use the term with them.

But yes, the double standard is unfair.

[ThomCat]

63. No, men who date younger women are usually respected by their peers.

their dates are "arm candy," which belittles the young date, not them. They are "sugar daddies," which implies that they are men of means and that their dates are sponging off of them.

"Cradle robbers" is usually used as a polite way of talking about people who should be arrested for statutory rape, so it's a term that protects the creepy guys in their twenties who date teens.

There really is not any term for men that singles them out for being a certain age and daring to still want to date.

[Shell Beau]

75. I don't think men who date younger women are assholes.

I am sure some are, but not all. As long as both are of legal age, who cares?

[One_Life_To_Give]

54. Sugar Daddy? nt

[ThomCat]

67. Sugar daddy smears the one dating the sugar daddy more than

the sugar daddy. It implies that the sugar daddy has some wealth (a good thing) and is generous (a good thing) and that he is dating someone who sleeps with him in exchange for sponging off of that wealth (basically a prostitute).

So how is that the equivalent of cougar?

[UndertheOcean]

79. Sugar-Daddy

[Boojatta]

88. Really young men?

[ThomCat]

62. No, that title is being pushed onto a whole lot of women who DARE

to still expect to have a social life into their late thirties and into their forties. People call women cougars. It is not just woman calling themselves.

And why the hell do we need a special name to call out woman in a certain age bracket who want to have social lives? Why do we need to stereotype their social lives? What is wrong with just letting them go about trying to date and leaving them alone to do it?

Yes, this whole "cougar" thing is really blatantly sexist.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

17. ah yes, the media creation

of the older women who is youth obsessed and preys on younger men. Well, sex sells, doesn't it. Was tonight the night that show premiered? I was almost tempted to watch to see just how bad it was.

[bigwillq]

23. It debuted last week

to really good numbers. I won't watch it. Just am not interested.

[question everything]

18. This, and MILF

For years, older men went after younger women and no one said a word. So why, when the ages are reversed, is it something to observe and to term and, no doubt, to mock?

On the other hand, when you see all the women who read the news on TV, or who play serious roles like a surgeon or a crime investigator dress to show skin or to promote their "assets" you have to realize that the women movement did not accomplish much in this area.

A few days ago, Ann Curie from the Today Show read the news. She, apparently, is not well endowed, so she unbuttoned her see thru blouse just so to show a hint of a cleavage. The next day she was going to interview Iran's Ahmedinejead and I wondered whether she was still promoting her "assets."

And all the women doctor with their long, flowing hair. How many surgeons have time to take care of long hair? And how would you like a doctor examining you while flipping her hair?

I am from "House" school of thought: if you come to work with tight clothes and/or showing skin, one has to wonder what, exactly you are trying to accomplish.

[LostInAnomie]

20. Ugh... I hate any catchy word that the media clings onto.

Nothing makes a word suck more ass than hearing it said on a morning news program or and entertainment news show. Cougar, MILF, metro-sexual, bling, faux-hawk, diva, bootylicious, etc. Anytime I hear any of those words I cringe.

[Skittles]

28. baby bump

:puke:

[Bucky]

41. All of those examples have jumped the shark.

So has "jumping the shark" which I have now thrown under the bus.

[coyotespaw]

21. Dammit

now I want a word for us guys that are looking for older women!! I need a description other than drunken rat bastard.

[question everything]

35. "toothsome little rabbit"

See post 29, below

:rofl:

[Deep13]

22. What does "objectify" mean?

I see the term a lot in this context, but I'm not sure I have ever been clear on its definition.

[TreasonousBastard]

24. I think it means..

"I'm sure I should be pissed, but I'm not really sure why."

[Schema Thing]

27. "notice"

[ThomCat]

66. It means you are treating woman as something other than people.

You are treating them as generic, easily characterized, easily described, easily explained, simple and shallow things. You are stripping away all the individuality, all the humanity, all the personhood, and you are investing in stereotypes instead.

You are taking away a person's individuality and describing them the way you would an object, as if a label tells you everything you need to know about this thing (not person) you are describing.

[Deep13]

71. In that case, I think catagories like cougar, soccer mom, career woman, old lady, MILF...

...have the potential to objectify, but do not necessarily do so. It think it's natural to categorize things including each other. The problem is if we forget that these ideas have very limited applicability. I think a person can be seen as an object of desire and still be respected as a whole person.

[ThomCat]

72. You don't think that "MILF" necessarily objectifies?

:wtf:

How is something like that showing any respect for a whole person? How do any of those labels show any respect for women as whole people when they pigeon-hole women and leave out the very possibility of large sections of their lives outside of those labels?

[Deep13]

73. You can say that about anything.

When I ask a collegue at the office to read over a legal brief, I'm not really interested in her home life, personal aspirations or fascinating interests. I only care that she can critically read a legal document. When nurses took care of me in the hospital, I really only was only interested in their nursing skills. This does not mean I didn't respect them as people. Now something like MILF may not SHOW respect for the whole person, but that does not mean I don't have it. Granted, I don't use use that term except in an effort to get a shock-value laugh.


Just in case I'm being overly literal which I have a tendency to do, it's M-I-Like to-F not M-I-Intend to-F. I forget that most people assume that a statement of desire necessarily implies a statement of intent.

I think there is a puritanical assumption that a sexual interest excludes all other interests in a person. I don't see sexuality as being different qualitatively than any other kind of personal activity or attribute.

[snooper2]

29. That's funny, women come up with a term to identify with...

and people bitch that women are being objectified :rofl:

do some research once in a while...


"In slang use, however, “cougar” is a term for an older woman who prefers to date younger men. There’s a connotation there of a wily, experienced feline going after a toothsome little rabbit.

While I’ve seen it in Australian and British newspapers, the slang term is far more common in North America.

Most of its popularity stems from a 2001 book by Valerie Gibson, called Cougar: A Guide for Older Women Dating Younger Men. This is the sort of book you buy as a joke for your newly single women friends, but one that they will read with interest when no one else is around.

When seeking the origin of terms, lexicographers look for printed evidence. In hunting cougars – the term, not the women or the wild cats – I found a March 3, 2001, article in the Globe and Mail of Toronto which credits “cougar” to a Canadian website called Cougardate.com, which the story says was started in 1999. It is, as you have guessed, a website where older women can meet younger men.

The story given in that article is that one of the two women who founded the website was told by a nephew that the two ladies were like cougars in search of small defenceless animals. The nephew said he picked up the term from players on his hockey team. So, 1999 is the earliest probable date we have for the term and it’s fairly reliable."

http://thestar.com.my/english/story.asp?file=/2007/10/17/lifefocus/19059904&sec=lifefocus

[Bucky]

36. You hear that, OP? Your feelings are totally invalid. Stop having emotions. Think like everyone else

Seriously, the term may have started out intended as empowering, but the snickering eternally adolescent elements in mainstream culture have latched onto the idea of cougars as something to ridicule as sexually exploitable and vaguely pathetic. Watch how the term is shown on SNL sometime--cougars are frustrated losers who can't get dates, or at least can't get second dates. Why? Because it's so damn hilarious when women over the age of 40 have the audacity to think of themselves as sexual beings.

Right. Ha ha.

[AmandaRuth]

43. the post above is so offensive

I can't even reply to it, Offensive on so many levels. One women uses the title in the book, and that uses the title in a book equals mass approval of all women, and the poster aughs that we, us, the little insignificant 40+ women, dare, I mean dare to object to a stereotype that portrays us as botoxed, overly made up, sexually obsessed stick figures that drool over the young guys, with nothing else going for us - and that "secretly read" thing, oh yes, that's me. I use a flashlight under the covers to secretly read younger guy dating tips. I AM so desperate , after all. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :banghead: :banghead: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[WCGreen]

57. Thank you...

[Bucky]

78. Um, I was pointing out how stupid that thinking was.

Sorry if that didn't come through clearly. I didn't think it would require a close read to see that I was pointing that out. I'm sorry that I didn't communicate that better.

[Chan790]

44. the snickering eternally adolescent elements in mainstream culture latch onto everything.

What is the publicly-portrayed image of lawyers, insurance salespeople, gay couples, bankers, married couples, Manhattanites, single people, journalists, blue collar labor, Greek life and residents of The Hamptons? How many of those accurately reflect reality?

Culture is caricature, often judgmental or cruel caricature and parody at that. If you don't like that, don't read books, watch TV or film, listen to music or admire art. Objectification is intrinsically part of all humanities and has been since some person living in a cave carved The Woman of Willendorf and painted pictures of their desires (and dinner) on cave walls in Lascaux, continued through the creation of Kritios Boy and the Minoan Snake Handler, The David and The Sistine Chapel, the writing of Justine, Venus in Furs and the Shakespearian sonnets. Art is objectifying. So is religion, patriotism, politics, philosophy and all -isms, every last one.

Higher consciousness is inescapably a function of objectification (it's how we process our experience of the world) and culture is a mirror of that.

[MajorChode]

52. I'm glad I have my boots on

[question everything]

37. I think that the point is: why do older women seeking younger men

even need a description, since we've never needed to define men who behave like that. Yes, "dirty old men" - but more as an admiration. I remember even when thirty something Prince Charles got engaged to an 18 year old Lady Diana, someone wrote that, after all, he is a "dirty old man."

[Bucky]

39. I was a teenager when that happened.

As teenagers, my friends and I definitely got an icky vibe off the idea of a girl just a year or two older than us marrying an old dude already in his 30s. Well, I'm past my 30s now, and I realize the true icky factor here is how goddamn annoying teenagers are. It's still icky, but more in the sense of what sort of weak insecure man wants to hook up with a woman who's not fully developed yet.

[snooper2]

50. You ever hear the term "Sugar Daddy"

nt

[question everything]

60. OK, so use the term Sugar Mommy

instead of Cougar which, I think, implies some sense of desperation.

Hey, look at me, even with stretch marks and boobs that may start sagging but, oh, do I know how to make men happy. But only the ones with tight bodies where I can cross my legs over their small tight ass.

[Gormy Cuss]

65. Or the gender neutral "cradle robber..."

that is, if one HAS to make a point of snarking about it at all.

[Bucky]

34. What about these cougars?

   

[Taverner]

45. Aw jeez

[NJmaverick]

51. I guess that means the terms "stud" and "hunk" would objectify men

FYI- ladies (and gentlemen) feel free to continue to use those terms to describe me.:evilgrin:

[datasuspect]

55. the terms "stud" and "hunk" describe me

[Gormy Cuss]

70. Why, yes they do.

The difference is there's little if any negative undercurrent to either objectification.

[dugaresa]

61. I have a friend who has been called that frequently because she is

engaged to marry a man who is 18 years younger than she is.

she absolutely hates when people refer to her as a cougar. it was her fiance that pursued her and she was reluctant to date him due to the age difference. but they are a great couple together.

the bonus was that it drove her ex husband insane which is funny given that he was the one that left her for another woman and frequently cheated on her during their long marriage.

[WCGreen]

64. that's my point...

Thank you for mentioning it in the tread...

[ThomCat]

68. Why the hell should people be judging her, stereotyping her,

assuming that she pursued him, as if there was anything wrong with that, assigning motives to her as if they have that right just because of who she is dating/engaged to?

This is an obvious example of how sexist it is. Only because she is female people feel they have a right to judge her, assign a role to her, and stereotype her.

I am very sorry that your friend has to go through this. I hope she is very happy in her relationship, and I hope this sexist bullshit doesn't interfere with her happiness.

[dugaresa]

69. and if the roles were reversed the woman would be objectified as a Trophy Wife

because the older man who gets the younger wife has gotten a new "trophy/toy" to play with.

my friend is very happy in her relationship, she glows!

[redqueen]

77. I'm just glad that at least some people understand what objectification is.

:thumbsup:

[Hepburn]

81. I frickin' HATE that term....

...and I am so glad someone said something about this!

[NNadir]

83. I have no idea whatsoever what the term means. I guess I'm an innocent.

I've seen this thread several times, and I still don't know if you're referring to a nearly extinct cat.

[Juche]

86. cougar = woman who is 40+ who prefers men in their 20s.

[In_The_Wind]

84. Darn!

I'm havin' fun wearin' a hoodie I had made last fall that proudly displays a silhouette of a Cougar and the words Warning Cougar on the prowl

Hi Chris :hug:

[Gabi Hayes]

87. where are all the FILFs?