OMG! Have you seen the new Walmart commercial?

[Gothic Sponge]

A mother and father work at Walmart and they talk about how proud they are to work there. They said they are happy their son now also works at Walmart. To quote them "We are living the American dream."


:puke:

[kalian]

1. No, I have not seen it.....

but I would not be surprised. This is the end result of the
"Wal-martization" of America. Very scary indeed.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

Eww

:puke:

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

2. Eww

:puke:

[Broadslidin]

7. Contacting the wal-mart Predators

I am sure, the Predators at wal-mart could care less,
but I have let wal-mart know via P.O. mail that
I will never go near a wal-mart and the reasons why.

With the help of supportive investigative reports,
I have found, positive success in convincing
many of my relatives and friends to do the same.

Never again will I breathe the stagnant air inside a wal-mart.

[Katha]

3. Oh, dear God

That's terrifying.

I'll add another :puke: to the litany.

[Bluzmann57]

4. Well if the American dream

means working for next to nothing, being exploited, selling almost all foreign made products, and running out all competition, then they are indeed "living the American dream". For a lot of us, however, we want to make a livable wage, be treated like human beings, try and seek out American made products, and like to support our local entrepeneurs.

[Gothic Sponge]

6. Bingo Bluzmann57

I've been seeing many of these "feel good" Walmart ads. Talk about Orwellian.

[Narf]

10. Why is running out the competition bad and evil?

Isn't it just good business practice to try to price your competition out of business? Isn't it good business to try to get the highest return on investments for your stockholder?

Let the market decide if Wal-Mart is good or bad. If enough people boycott them then they'll be forced to change their practices or go out of business. Apparently, as Wal-Mart is making money hand over fist, enough people are happy shopping there and don't seem to have issues with them.

[Deja Q]

19. The market only gives a frack about money

People don't count.

Not on Wall Street.

Not in Wal-Mart.

Enough people either don't know that they are tightning the noose around their own neck because of Wal-mart's predatory and other inhumane practices, or they just want the lowest price and don't give a fuck as to how it got to be so low.

Either way, they're tightning their nooses and strangling the rest of us as well.

[NightTrain]

23. Because then you no longer have capitalism; you have feudalism.

And feudalism always results in bloodshed!

[Screaming Lord Byron]

67. Isn't it good business to try to get the highest return on investments'

That's no way to run a business. The key to running a successful business is balance. If you try to raise returns too far, you will lose out in other sectors (usually workforce related).
If we leave this matter up to the market, big box stores will soon be our only choice. Wal-Mart is bad for competition.

[ProfessorGAC]

88. Good Call SLB!

The problem with Wall Street thinking is that it's two dimensional exclusively. The social aspects of running a successful big business in a diverse country of 280 million people are far more complex than these 70's and 80's B-school grads are absorbing.

They are headed toward a monolithic nature in which even the market won't matter. When the little toadies on Wall Street find out that even their opinion is no longer important, they will learn their lessons. But, by then, another million small business will be ground to dust.
The Professor

[CBHagman]

104. People think that the market is a level playing field. It's not.

There's a basically a system of bribery (to get products displayed and pushed) and serfdom (to get products made), plus bait-and-switch. Wal-Mart does at least two of the above.

[sniffa]

5. i saw it

"it started out as just a job, but it's been a successfuL career!"

i got a promotion to afternoon greeter.

[louis-t]

8. "It started out as just a job"- translation:

"we're stuck here at $4 an hour...for the rest of our natural lives."

edit to say: I have never shopped at Wally World-Mart due to a news piece many years ago that showed how the company used a factory overseas with 9 and 10 year olds who lived in the factory, were paid next to nothing, and were charged for their room and board. The guy in charge told the reporters (who were posing as potential customers) that he could put any label they wanted in the clothing to show country of origin. All this was investigated after an ad campaign at Wal-Nerts with big 'Made in America' signs on all of the clothing racks (when everything on the racks came from overseas).

[Narf]

9. Why do you assume they are stuck at Wal-Mart for $4 an hour?

Does the management hold them at gunpoint preventing them from leaving? Are they not free to walk out the door and seek other employment?

[Gothic Sponge]

11. The problem is

in many towns Walmart has taken over and killed all the small businesses. In a way, some employees are trapped.

[Narf]

12. Nonsense, no one is trapped by a retail store...

If the people, especially in small towns, got together and stopped shopping AND working at Wal-Mart the store would quickly go out of business, thereby opening up the market place to other options. Also, if enough people in town banded together they could open their own co-op grocery store, or any other store, and with a little support from their commuinty THEY could force the local WallyWorld out of business.

I believe this scenario does NOT happen all too often because many people like to shop at Wal-Mart. They like the prices, they like the selection, and yes, they actually LIKE to work for Wal-Mart!

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donsu]

14. agree

nt

[Narf]

15. So, you believe that Wal-Mart is somehow mind-controlling the people?

Are the people incapable of independent thought because a Wal-Mart store has opened in their town? Is there some sort of mind control ray eminating from Wal-Mart that makes the citizens of a town incapable of shopping elsewhere, or working elsewhere?

[louis-t]

16. My point was: there aren't many choices left.

[Narf]

17. You are correct, there are few choices...

But it is absolutely ridiculous to simply surrender and believe there is nothing that can be done. There is ALWAYS something that can be done if one, or a group of, people decides to do something. Even in small towns with limite options there are still options.

What did people in small towns do before Wal-Mart? They shopped elsewhere. They can still do that but they simply have do decide that the inconvenience of driving to another town to shop if better than letting Wal-Mart take over their town. If enough people do this the local Wal-Mart will have no other choice but to pack up and move on.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Elsewhere closed down when Wal Mart came to town

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. No Wal MArt IS controlling small regional economies though

It's very difficult to get opinion together to organize against the largest employer in town since people fear for their own well being and don't have the resources to survive while CREATING those co-ops you suggest.

[trogdor]

93. The mind-control techniques employed at Wal*Mart are legendary.

Check out Nickled and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich sometime. About 2/3 into it, she goes through the process at Wal*Mart and describes the way Wal*Mart messes with your mind in detail.

[sniffa]

101. or for a quick read

The evil is not in Wal-Mart's beginning, but in where it inevitably led.
One of the effects of a Wal-Mart on a town is that it will entirely seize all the goods and services of the business community without any particular dependence on the economy of the area. If that sounds like mere survival of the fittest, look at it this way: As Walmart Store #555 becomes the largest (and in some products, only) store in Dublin, New Hampshire, then Dublin depends entirely on Walmart... while Walmart continues to think of Dublin as merely Store #555. Should they ever make the decision to close the store (as they have in Nowata, Oklahoma; Hearne, Texas; or Grand Saline, Texas), then Dublin takes it in the shorts. The effect is not unlike a giant resting on a comfortable chair that breaks under the strain; the giant gets up and walks on to another place to sit; the chair's options are markedly less.

The charges against Walmart read like an anti-monopolist screed from 100 years ago: Union-busting, predatory pricing (pricing everything so low that other competitors buckle), vicious response to zoning laws in their way, and overcharging/defrauding customers by "mistake" on many, many occasions. This has caused a litany of lawsuits against the corporation, but Walmart presses on.

http://www.rotten.com/library/crime/corporate/wal-mart/

[NightTrain]

18. You may wish to read Barbara Ehrenreich's book, NICKEL AND DIMED...

...in which the veteran journalist recounts her experiences of going undercover in various forms of low-wage employment. Among the jobs she worked was that of Wal-Mart "associate." Read that chapter, Narf, and I daresay your high opinion of Mall-Wart will change!

[Narf]

25. You can't have it both ways...

You claim that one woman's experience working at, and then writing a book about, Wal-Mart is "proof" that Wal-Mart is evil yet another woman's statement in a TV commercial that she likes working at Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart is good must be propaganda.

[NightTrain]

39. So that's your problem! You think everything on TV is real.

I shouldn't have to tell this to an adult, but I will anyway:

The woman in the TV commercial is an actor reading lines from a script. Barbara Ehrenreich is a journalist who wrote her book from personal experience. And the book is not only about *her* experiences, anyway. Do you think she spent her month working at Mall-Wart in a vacuum? No, she talked extensively with other employees, as well. And some of the stories she heard were not pretty!

Ahh, why am I bothering to discuss this with you? Nothing anyone says will get through to you anyway. As far as you're concerned, Mall-Wart is the ultimate good, and that settles it! Right? :eyes:

[Deja Q]

20. Your simplistic idealism and what the Green party has to say...

Forgive me, but tell me why they DO shop there?

Some people need money of any sort.

Some people can't afford more.

People like low prices and don't care how they get to be that low, even if it is by one or two pennies.

This country has made itself into a corporate entity, where the corporation comes first.

If we try to do mass boycotts, we end up homeless or dead because we don't have the money to otherwise live.

Get this now: Wal-mart and such ilk are lowering the bar and crushing us with it. If we couldn't resist before, how the hell are we supposed to now?

THAT is why wal mart spreads like a plague.

A parallel: Why don't more people vote Green party, when they often spout the ideals the Greens cherish? Same exact reasons.

[NightTrain]

22. When I lived in Laughlin, Nevada, I had to shop to Wal-Mart.

Why? Because it literally was the only department store in town. It was either go to Wal-Mart or spend an hour driving up a godforsaken mountain into Kingman, Arizona. Plus, the casino job I had paid a whopping $6.00 an hour, which made Wal-Mart about the only place I could afford to shop!

I'm now back in my native Connecticut, where I make far better money and there are plenty of affordable alternatives to that corpporate succubus, Wal-Mart. But in many, many places across the United States, that simply is not the case.

To quote a bumper sticker I saw recently:

"WAL-MART. ALWAYS LOW WAGES. ALWAYS. :("

[Narf]

26. You still didn't HAVE to shop at Wal-Mart. You CHOSE to shop there

because it was more convenient than going to Kingman.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Narf]

34. Are you disputing my statement, or just looking for someone to insult?

If my statement is incorrect then please, say so. If not, please go insult someone else.

[NightTrain]

31. And buying my hamburger meat at Stop & Shop was more convenient than...

...purchasing a cow and slaughtering it myself.

What about the thousands of Laughlinites who were less fortunate than I and couldn't afford the luxury of a car? For them, it was either shop to Mall-Wart or do without. But of course, most (if not all) of those people knew as much as Mall-Wart as you do, so I doubt the remarks I made above ever occurred to them.

Wait, let me guess: those people chose not to have car, right? After all, they could've owned a car if they hadn't been so insistent on living indoors! :eyes:

[Narf]

We're talking about YOU, not the thousands of Laughlinites...

YOU had a choice. Is this not correct?

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trogdor]

94. Well, I could choose to shop at Lazarus...

...but the nearest one is 500 miles away. Your point was...?

[PVnRT]

29. Tell me, Narf

How do you take your business elsewhere when there is nowhere else to take your business? Hmmmmmm?

I suggest, if you think working at Wal-Mart ain't so bad, maybe you should go get a job there and try to support a family. Tell us how it turns out.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Narf]

46. You are correct...people should be able to EARN a living wage

They should be able to earn as much as they possibly can. The keyword here is EARN!

[Lars39]

48. I think you have been indulged enough.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trogdor]

96. They're also entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

...kinda hard to achieve when you're working three jobs at minimum wage just to pay the rent on someplace YOU wouldn't be caught dead in.

[Narf]

54. If I don't agree with EVERYTHING you believe so I should leave????

What kind of nonsense is that? Sounds like something one would expect to hear over at FR, not here!

[Lars39]

58. Here's some articles you might want to read:

http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2002-05-08/news.html

http://www.flagstaffactivist.org/campaigns/walmyths.html

http://www.alternet.org/print.html?StoryID=12962

[Narf]

59. Thanks for the links. I am certainly open to new ideas and points.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

86. Oh, thanks, now my keyboard has coffee all over it. (nt)

[dawn]

50. Really?

Hmmm. Say that to the many laid-off software engineers now working at Wal-Mart, because, to many corporations, they are "too old" at 45 to be hired. (ie. too expensive...)

Is that their fault? You would probably say yes. You are looking at the world with blinders on.

[Narf]

55. NO, NO, NO! It's not their fault, it's simply reality.

Private business owners should be able to hire whomever they wish. If you own a business and don't want to hire someone then you should not have to hire that person. Software engineers get laid off because there are too many software engineers and too few jobs. It's a fact of life that companies exist to make a profit for their shareholders/owners.

Do you believe that companies should be forced to hire people? Do you believe the government should force businesses to pay an employee a specific wage, even if the company has no need for that employee? That's how it works in many European countries and look how it's devastated their economies.

[Bridget Burke]

83. "Devastated" European economies?

How's the Euro doing against the Dollar?

[strategery blunder]

73. Then where do you propose they shop and work then?

In some places, it is too late on this. Walmart has become to small towns what the crop lien system was to Southern tenant farmers a hundred years ago.

It sucks, and Wal-mart does destroy the options of small town residents, both for employment and shopping. However, once the process is complete, its victims have nowhere else to go.

[Duckiesplaything]

91. I've actually worked for one of the "Local, Family owned" business

And the "Family" were some of the wealthiest people in town, and their employees were struggling to make ends meet. It's not a Wal-Mart thing to pay low and treat employees poorly. In fact I think they learned it from somewhere.... IMO.

[jean]

21. All 3 have to work at W to scrounge up enough $ for the fam to get by

[Narf]

27. Is that because WallyMart pays so little, or because they spend too much?

Perhaps they all work at Wal-Mart because they DO like working there. Not everyone who works at Wal-Mart hates the place. Also, why should someone expect more than minimum wage for stocking a shelf, bagging some groceries, or cleaning up the spill in aisle five? They get paid very little because there is very little skill involved in the job. If they want to get paid more then they need to get a job that requires more skills and more training and, therefore, pays more because there are fewer people capable of doing the job.

[NightTrain]

35. How many Mall-Wart employees do you actually know?

Are you positing these assertions of yours based on actual experience, or are you simply makign assumptions that conform to your version of reality?

I ask this because there is a veritable cottage industry of websites, books, articles, etc, that have gone into excruciating detail about Mall-Wart's vampiric buying practices, horrid treatment of its employees (to whom the company condescendingly refers as "associates"), and corrosive effect on local communities. And the lion's share of the people who've collected and disseminated this information are not "left-wing wackos" with a political ax to grind. In many, many cases, they are established and respected journalists and social activists.

I can provide you with some links if you'd like. Just say the word, Narf!

[Narf]

37. I don't shop at Wal-Mart nor do I know any Wal-mart employees

I'm merely saying that, at least in the country in which I live, people have choices. Some people CHOOSE to shop at Wal-Mart, some choose not to. Some people CHOOSE to work for Wal-Mart, some choose not to. That's reality, and no amount of bitching about it is gonna change a damn thing.

[NightTrain]

42. "No amount of bitching is gonna change a damn thing?"

You apparently have never heard of Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela. Or the U.S. trade labor movement of the 1930s, for that matter.

Every major political and social movement begins with what you call "bitching." If you don't know that, then you need to seriously bone up on American history!

[Narf]

47. They didn't just bitch, THEY acted.

The organized, they took action, they DID something.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

85. People regularly advocate alternatives to Wal-Mart here

Like Costco, online shopping etc.

Do you like Costco?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

98. You're right. Poeple have to DO something.

I'm starting, much to my chagrin, to see a small but slowly growing Wal-Mart presence here in Brazil. I'll do my best to get people to shop elsewhere. As you said, acting is better than bitching. Thanks for the inspiration.

[havocmom]

92. Are you Senator Kyl?

Just wondering. Viewpoint is about the same as his

[EstimatedProphet]

62. And what do you do when there aren't any of those jobs?

In case you haven't heard, there's a helluva lot of outsourcing to other countries going on in just those job types you're talking about. Is your answer to move to India with the jobs?

[ProudGerman]

63. Sorry Mr Free Market trumps all

But if you spend your day toiling away so a company can rake in millions per day (WalMart is so big, it might be millions per hour, they are larger than the next five biggest competitors combined), then that company should damn well pay you enough to survive.

I'm sorry, but this idea that you get paid shit because your work is shit is pure draconian bullshit. They get paid shit because they know some other schmuck will come and do that job (all the while bitching about low wages) if you quit because it doesn't pay enough. Also, if it is such meaningless work, management can do clean up on aisle five. Oh wait, they are busy managing, so they can't do that. Looks to me like the person doing cleanup on aisle five is providing a necessary service for WalMart, payment should be commiserate. How much money will WalMart make if the shelves aren't stocked and the store isn't cleaned?

WalMart is successful because of 'everyday low prices'. How did they get these low prices? Because they refuse to pay their employees a decent wage, and actively look for ways to pay them less/cut benefits. Since they have a virtual lock on the retail market (remember, bigger than the next 5 combined, with number 2 being Home Depot.....lots of competition there huh?), they have the power to tell suppliers how to set prices. A supplier really can't survive if they are shut out of WalMart, look again at their size compared to competitors. This invariably leads to suppliers shipping jobs overseas. So WalMart isn't only driving wages down for their own employees, they are actively killing jobs in other industries. Ask textile workers, WalMart has crushed that industry in the States, so you shouldn't have any trouble finding one with plenty of time to go into details.

An unmitigate Free Market system will always lead to neither. Freedom or anything resembling a market. Workers will become slaves in everything but name, and customers will have no choice. In that system, only a very few companies will rise to the top and they will use their economic might to crush competition, and drive wages downward.


Oh, that software engineer wasn't layed off because there were too many. He was layed off because killing his wage boosted profits for that quarter. If there were too many, they wouldn't have shipped his fucking job to India!!! This singleminded drive for greater profits leads to behaviour destructive to our society (something I hold in higher esteem than 'the market', maybe you don't). Something very similiar to what happened with Chrysler several years ago. They posted record profits, a few weeks later, they layed off 3000 people.

Shareholders suck. Literally, figuritively and any other way you can imagine.

[jmowreader]

71. How much money Wal-Mart makes

According to Wal-Mart's website, they have three divisions reporting sales figures:

The Wal-Mart division reported selling $13.628 billion in the four weeks ending February 27, 2004.

The Sam's Club division reported sales of $2.678 billion.

The International Division sold $3.856 billion.

All tolled, Wal-Mart raked in $20.162 billion in four weeks.

That is $720.071 million per day.

Or $30 million per hour. Yes, that's one million dollars every two minutes.

To go to the lowest rational unit of time here, Wal-Mart made over eight thousand dollars per second. In February.

Now that it's spring and their garden department is starting to show some decent turn...

Let's compare that to the number-two retailer. My employer's fourth quarter of fiscal 2003 (our fiscal year ends in February) showed sales of $15.1 billion over all divisions, and we have far more than they do. Our fiscal 2003 sales were $64.8 billion. Wal-Mart makes in three months what we make in a year.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. And ProudGerman makes line #9

See sig.

[Duckiesplaything]

95. It's the Way of business, Proud

He who does the most work, is paid least.
Look at all Corps or companies...the one at the top gets the highest pay, and does the least actual work, and are actually praised for their ability to "delegate" responsiblity...which means to pass the work on to someone who is paid less. That is apparently the American dream.IMO

[SmileyBoy]

24. The idea of the "American dream" had definitely changed, hasn't it???

If that's the true "American dream" nowadays, then I don't think I want to be in America anymore.

[Paragon]

28. It only took me 18 years to make manager!

...or something to that effect. Pretty funny stuff.

[scottcsmith]

36. Woo hoo!

If the American dream is for three adults to work at Walmart and earn a combined income of approx. $30 an hour, then SIGN ME UP!

:bounce:

[Narf]

38. Why aren't these people doctors, or lawyers, or salesmen...

or any of a thousand other professions? Why are they working at Wal-Mart?

[dawn]

52. So, do all skilled careers pay high wages?

If so, how would you explain the low wages of teachers or social workers?

Oh yeah, that's right, our God, "the market" doesn't find those people as valuable as salespeople.

[Narf]

56. Teachers and social workers work for the government, not the market!

Teachers at private, non-government schools earn more than teachers at public school because the market dictates how much they get paid. Better teachers are in high demand and can therefore demand, and get, higher salaries. Poor teachers don't last long in the private school sector and often end up in public schools because the public schools are short of teachers, partially because of low pay, and partially because government overregulation stifles initiative in the public schools.

Social workers are faced with the same situation...overwork and low pay, so many people don't want to be social workers.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

68. So, do you believe the free market should be left to dictate everything?

Where would you choose to draw the line?

[Narf]

70. I draw the line at the point where the free market infringes on rights.

One of the primary jobs of government is to protect the individual from abuse.

[NightTrain]

41. Scott, you need to check your math.

I seriously doubt that three random Mall-Wart employees make a combined income of $30 an hour! It's probably more like $18-$20. :)

[Gothic Sponge]

44. THE MODERN MONOPOLIST IN OUR MIDST

http://www.jimhightower.com/air/read.asp?id=11265


The "free" in free markets is not an adjective, it's a verb – we must diligently work to free the market of conniving monopolists who try to lock it down and rule like autocrats.

A century ago, Robber Barons like Rockefeller and Carnegie used their riches to put a chokehold on commerce, buying off governments and media while crushing competitors, workers, and entire communities. The monopolist is a brute, and that's why the Populists and finally the Democrats and even trust-busting Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt responded to grassroots demands to free the market, using such tools as anti-monopoly laws, labor reforms, and small business protection.

But monopoly continues to rear its ugly head. Today, there's a new brute on the block, exerting more power over America's economy than the Robber Barons could dream of. It is Wal-Mart. Behind the aw-shucks, smiley-faced demeanor portrayed in its ads, this giant is now not merely the largest corporation in the world, but the dominating economic power in our country, able to use its brute financial clout to monopolize practically any market it bulls into.

It's monopoly exists because, first, it has grabbed a chokehold on the retail supply chain, able to dictate its price to the thousands of manufacturers that put products in its stores, even compelling these companies to lower their wages or to move their manufacturing to China. Second, Wal-Mart doesn't play fair in the local market. When it moves into your community, it can drop its prices and lose money for months without affecting its overall profits, for it has thousands of stores. Your local hardware, grocery, pharmacy, and others can't do that, so they are crushed – not by Wal-Mart's work ethic or efficiency, but by its brute monopoly force.

The bottom line is that Wal-Mart shrinks our economy, destroys middle-class wages, changes the face of our communities, and erodes America's values of fairness, justice, and opportunity. It's time to free the market again.

[Narf]

45. Let's go with your figures...

Let's assume each of our three random WalMartians makes $6.50 an hour. Combined wages: 19.50 an hour. Let's assume NO overtime, NO raises for an entire year, and NO other income (can't have someone working two jobs now, can we...that wouldn't be FAIR!) $19.50 x 40 hr week x 52 weeks a year = $40,560 annual salary. Now, depending on where one lives, $40k a year will allow a family of three to live comfortably. Not luxuriously, but comfortably. Heck, I support a wife and two kids, own ONE newer car, and OWN my own home and I make just under $45k a year. Keep in mind though that I am the ONLY one bringing in a salary...my wife stays home with the children.

[maveric]

61. Three of their incomes are less than one of yours.

And you dont see a problem with that? What happens if the kid wants to move out on his own? If he/she did they probably wouldnt be able to survive financially on their own, and Ma & Pa's yearly income is down to a whopping $27,000.00.
Well maybe they can always live together and pool their incomes forever, just like,..like,... Socialists!! So Walmart is promoting socialism?? Interesting.

[Narf]

74. My point was that their income allows them to live comfortably..

And if they want to earn more they should look for different jobs. The solution to their situations is NOT to force Wal-Mart to pay them more. If they are not happy with the pay/conditions at Wal-Mart they are certainly free to find a higher paying job. I believe they should be paid as much as the market will bear.

[bleedingheart]

51. Are they locked up in the store????

[boobooday]

53. I saw it

Had to :puke:

Welcome to the United States of Wal-Mart.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[JVS]

57. Mmmmm Serfdom.

[Narf]

80. Five yard penalty for improper word usage:

Serf: n, a member of a servile feudal class bound to the soil and subject to the will of his lord.

No one is bound to WalMart or subject to the will of WalMart, except by concious CHOICE. No one is forced to work for WalMart.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. Overruled. 1st and 10. (nt)

[JVS]

107. Yeah but when every family member works for the same store

they have tightly bound their destiny to the future of that store. AS the sole paycheck provider Walmart carries an inordinant amount of power in these peoples' lives.

[Triple H]

60. I'd have to agree with Narf...

no one is forcing people to shop at Wal-Mart. If you all don't like Wallyworld, go shop somewhere else. In my town, I have five or six other department stores I shopt at. Wal-Mart isn't the only place in town, people.

I know several people who work at a Wal-Mart and actually enjoy it there (they're nuts, I know). I also know people who hate it there, too. These people chose to work at Wal-Mart because they didn't want to do fast food or work at the grocery store. You people imply that Wallyworld is they're only alternative to work, when in fact, it isn't.

The people who work at Walmart get a wage that is equal to those at Target and/or KMart. I don't know why you all think they don't earn enough ($4/hr??? Was that sarcasm?). They seem to be doing ok. Yeah, I know that minimum wage isn't enough to get by with these days, but these people are.

Instead of complaining about a company and shopping there, just go to the alternative places to shop like I do. No sense arguing over it. I'm not going to argue over it. It's pointless.

[ProudGerman]

66. At what point are we allowed to complain about a company then?

When they use their economic advantage in their industry to push around corporations in other industries? When they actively seek to drive their own employees wages downward? When they indirectly force other companies in other industries to move jobs overseas?

Look up how much of the national retail market Wal-Mart accounts for, then try and tell us its not ok to complain about them.

[Triple H]

69. Welcome to the wide world of capitalism.

That's what happens in our economy--a business moves in, shuts other businesses down. It's how our economy works. It sucks, but that's how it works.

What's sitting around bitching and complaining gonna solve? Not a damn thing. I fight back by shopping at other businesses. I don't give my money to walmart.

[Narf]

75. Excellent strategy.

If enough people did like you do then Wal-Mart will be forced to change it's business practices. If people REALLY want to make a difference you need to not only boycott Wal-Mart but you need to let them know that you are taking your money elsewhere, and why. If they don't get any complaints they'll assume everyone is happy with them.

[Rex]

64. Ah yes, living the Capitalist dream for our corporate masters.

"I love the smell of cheap labor in the morning! It smells like...dollar bills...

[VOX]

65. "Arbeit Macht Frei" = "Work Brings Freedom"

And I mean no disrespect to anyone whose family members endured (or didn't survive) the Nazi death camps.

Rather, all the right-wing new-speak smacks of the worst propaganda ever perpetrated upon this earth.

[Jim__]

72. The new American Dream - under Bush - n/t

[LynneSin]

76. The American Dream: Making minimum wages - A Family Affair

:puke:

Who the hell is Walmart kidding?

[Narf]

77. Where does personal choice enter into the equation?

No one is forced to work at Wal-Mart against their will. Every, single employee of Wal-Mart works there voluntarily. Every one. Each of those employees is free to NOT work at Wal-Mart any time they choose, just as you are free to NOT shop at Wal-Mart any time you choose. Wal-Mart doesn't OWE you or I a damn thing. It's free enterprise, and it's the way things work in the USA.

[Bluzmann57]

78. Ok here's a true story

about your previous point. In 1996, I lost my job that I had for nearly 19 years because the company relocated to Mexico. Shortly after that, Wal-Mart announced that they were opening a new store in our area and that they were taking applications. I was one of the applicants. I indicated on my app. that I wanted a certain minimum amount of money and they told me that they paid $5.80 per hour. I was fortunate in that I have a wife who makes pretty good money and we had money in the bank. I also had the opportunity to go to school and become an educated idiot, as it were. There was at least one woman that I worked with who had to take this job at the new Wal-Mart, however, because she had three children and her husband ran out on her. So it's not always a choice. People have to do what they need to so that they can survive. I recently saw this woman and she has since found another higher paying job so this story had a semi happy ending. This doesn't always happen though. And I am all for capitalism. as long as it's done in the right way, that is honestly, without exploiting workers. One more thing, did you know Wal-Mart censors some of the music that they sell? There is another reason not to do business with that company.

[Narf]

79. She was forced to work somewhere, but not necessarily WalMart

She certainly needed the job. Most of us need to work. I'm sure that, for her, WalMart was the best available option. This in no way means that she was forced to work at WalMart, only that it was the best option she had, based on her particular situation. Some might even say that it was a GOOD thing she worked at WalMart because she would not have gotten as much money had she chosen to work elsewhere.

Also, why do people complain about getting ONLY $6 an hour at WalMart? They're not performing brain surgery or solving world hunger...they're BAGGING GROCERIES!, or stocking shelves, or cleaning up a spill on aisle five. The reason WalMart pays ONLY $6 an hour is because the pool of available, qualified people to fill the jobs is HUGE! The reason WalMart DOESN'T pay it's employees 25-cents a day is because no one would work for that amount of money. WalMart then has to offer more money until it gets enough people to fill it's needs. If no one would work for WalMart for less than $100 an hour then WalMart would have to start paying it's employees $100 an hour or go out of business. Very basic situation of supply and demand. Didn't we all learn this in Business 101 in high school?

[cap]

84. so you are against the unionization movement at Walmart?

you think that the unionized checkout clerks at other grocery stores who make $10/hr and have health insurance and pensions are over priced?

You obviously don't mind the company policy of informing its clerks on how to apply for Medicaid since the company won't pay for health insurance. Walmart has increased Medicaid expenses in rural counties by about $400K. You don't mind your state and local taxes paying for a corporation being too cheap to take care of the health care needs of its workers.

Or, perhaps, these people dont deserve health insurance? One place I worked had an elderly security guard who lacked front teeth. Medicaid won't pay for dentures these days, never mind the proper dental care needed to retain teeth. If you are poor and have dental problems, they yank the tooth.

Why should a company have the right to hire any one it wants? Walmart runs a foul of EEOC regulations because it has a whole bevy of female checkout clerks supervised by white males. There is a class action suit against this practice.

Why should Walmart hire that many part timers -- why not make them full time, give them benefits and a decent life. They are the largest employer in America. When GM was the largest employer in America, it gave its workers decent benefits and a real leg up on the American dream.

Your argument hinges on the notion that people are commodities and should be treated like commodities. If you think the price of peanuts is too high, don't buy peanuts. This is contrary to the notion that people need to be treated with humanity. Why should we not pay enough for our groceries such that people are not left in want? In the past, the people that serve us in the grocery counters were not always paid minimum wage. Why can't we go back to that world? Why should we not strive for a world where people's lives are truly on track for a better tomorrow?

[trogdor]

97. The reason WM doesn't pay 25 cents a day is because it's ILLEGAL.

Don't kid yourself. They'd fly in illegal aliens from God-knows-where, and set up a barracks behind the store if they could get away with it.

[Duckiesplaything]

100. This is a fact of the American Business

It seems like most businesses consider their employees as liabilities, just someone else to take money away from their profit margin. There are a few...but very few companies that see employees as an asset. It's not exclusive to Wal-Mart. Until businesses of all kinds figure out that most of their assets walk out the door at quiting time everyday, no business can claim the high ground over any other. IMO

[FlaGranny]

105. Are you familiar with monopolies?

They get larger and larger and eventually all choice is removed from the consumer, the employee, and the community. Antitrust anyone? We could use another Teddy Roosevelt about now.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. The American Dream is COSTCO. Go shop there. Now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1291779

[mvd]

90. I don't like Walmart

I think the stores are poorly laid out, they don't treat their workers well, the discounts aren't that great, the stuff is often chinsy, and that they are like shopping factories. K-Mart is more enjoyable IMO. If I was in charge, I'd try to get Walmart monopoly classification. But that's me.

[trogdor]

99. I'll buy the chintzy charge.

You get what you pay for. I wish Consumer Reports would do a thing on Wal*Mart sometime. How's this for a comparison: 1961-vintage made-in-USA GE electric mixer vs. its 2004 made-in-China counterpart.

[mvd]

103. K-Mart has better stuff

And they aren't expensive. Anyway, I think a lot of the charges are hard to ignore.

[notadmblnd]

102. Does it show them

going home tho their cardboard box in the parking lot at quitting time too?

[bmbmd]

106. I'd rather take a beating than go to Walmart

but it seems that Walmart is not just a store, it is a cultural phenomenon. I know people who gather up the kids on Saturday, eat breakfast at the Walmart snack bar, shop for three hours, then have lunch. In the heat of the summer, the local Walmart allows homeless and other folks without air conditioning to hang out in the relative cool. I don't get the fascination, but if one has lived his whole life in poverty, Walmart must seem like Solomon's storehouse. Maybe that's why people like to work there.

[FlaGranny]

108. There are some dispicable arguments in this thread.

They come from people who show up in two's and three's like clockwork for threads like these. They most likely are reincarnations from times past, as the argument always sounds the same. If they only demanded the same responsibility from corporations as they do from the poor.

[skippysmom]

110. Interesting how that happens

Every time there's a Wal-Mart thread there are always a couple of people defending them by saying "well, no one is forced to work there." Hell, when Wal-Mart's the only game in town -- where else will people work?

Remember when companies as their employees as assets, not liabilities?

[redqueen]

109. Sickening

What galls me is that Wal Mart's hiring personnel have reportedly educated their newly hired employees on how to collect government assistance.

More corporate welfare. And the five Walton heirs are worth billions.