Kucinich never answered on the flag burning vote

[mkregel]

I would like to hear what he has to say about his lock-step march with the Ashcrofts and Hummer drivers when he voted in favor of the ban on Flag burning.

[AnAmerican]

1. Then write his campaign and ask him.

This discussion has been repeated ad nauseum here on DU. Obviously, you, in all your infinite wisdom, will not be swayed. Thank god most voters (and DU'ers) are not one button reactionaries.

Have a nice day

[mkregel]

2. Hey...who are you calling a Butt Nactuary???

Seriously, if Kucinich can't tell the difference between a flag and freedom (which is what his brother died for, not the flag) then he's not fit to serve in the Oval Office.

Besides - if you've ever been a Boy Scout then you know what you're supposed to do with a flag that gets dirty - yes you BURN it.

[goobergunch]

4. It's not a ban on flag burning...

it's a ban on flag "desecration", which would have to be defined by Congress...meaning that (as Nadler pointed out in the debate) the important thing would be what you were saying when you were burning the flag.

[mkregel]

5. Even more of an assault on the 1st ammendment

So he supports a hands down limit to freedom of speech. And he considers himself a progressive.

[NetRizzo]

18. You're right!!

Kucinich isn't progressive at all, he's really more of a republican/conservative type. Around the board his stance on the issues may seem very progessive, but he doesn't see eye-to-eye with the "real progressives" on the most important issue, our right to burn the flag.

Darn.. Thought I had found an awesome candidate, but he is just a facist.

-sarcasm off-

:eyes:

[jos]

19. I wrote

And got a form letter response. "Don't have to agree on every issue. Blah, blah." Not really a satisfactory response. I'm still waiting to hear from HIM. And the vote still bothers me a great deal. But, I'm still on board.

[goobergunch]

3. I tracked this down...

HON. DENNIS J. KUCINICH

in the House of Representatives

THURSDAY, JUNE 12, 1997


Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the constitutional amendment which would prohibit desecration of the American flag . Each day millions of Americans place their hands over their hearts and pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. Think of the words in that pledge:

`I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, One Nation, under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.' Think of the power of this act of affirmation of flag , God, and the Unity of our Nation and you begin to understand why so many Americans support this amendment, and why people have fought for the flag and died for the flag . We send people around the world to defend the flag . This amendment lets us defend it here at home.

The very constitutional protections which all Americans are guaranteed today exist because of the commitment which people have to the highest ideals of our nation as expressly symbolized by the flag. It is not just a piece of cloth. The flag proudly stands as the emblem of our Nation . And I am proud to stand in support of the flag .

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=E1218&dbname=1997_record

It's not that big an issue for me, but I was kind of curious of what he had to say

[killbotfactory]

6. Argh...

I hate that stupid arguement!

Nobody died to protect the flag, nobody is sent to defend the flag, it's just a goddamn symbol. People are sent to defend our country and uphold our constitution which ALLOWS freedom of speech.

[AnAmerican]

7. And for many vets....

The flag IS a symbol. You may not like it but that is the reality.

Let me quote Dragonfly from another thread "Why do something in a flagrantly incendiary manner which alienates the very people we need to checkmate this out-of-control monster devouring the planet?"

This upcoming election is about bringing together all Americans, quite a few of which regard burning the flag as an affront to them.

So tell me, what is Dean's position on flag desecration and/or burning?? Is it a free speech issue? Or is it something more?

[killbotfactory]

8. Some vets are bothered that we don't fall in lockstep with the president..

In a time of war. Maybe we should outlaw dissent? :eyes: x 1000

I don't understand your reasoning at all. It seems to be saying we shouldn't bring up any controversial issues because we have to take out Bush. I honestly don't know what you're getting at.

Why does this need to be about Dean, when I was talking about Kucinich's reasoning for the flag amendment? He happens to adopted the view that lots of people have, and one that bugs me. If Dean said the same thing I would be just as critical.

[AnAmerican]

10. What I am saying is....

The flag issue, in particular, offends many more vets than opposition against the war. Flag-burning is so totally unneccessary. A person can voice his opinions loud and clear without resorting to something that is so inflammatory (no pun intended).

Regarding Dean...I simply asked a question, much as you were simply voicing your opinion on the flag amendment. Was I insulting? Derogatory? I think not

[killbotfactory]

12. Well, lots of vets fought to rid the world of Nazism.. should skinheads...

or the KKK Be allowed to carry the Nazi flag? It's quite inflammatory, after all.

I simply don't buy the arguement that if it offends someone you should ban it. I've never seen any polls taken of vets or soldiers on whether or not they want an amendment banning flag desecration, so I can't say whether or not they support it. I do know that it's almost always promoted by republicans to paint the opposition as unAmerican.

[AnAmerican]

14. I am way too tired to engage......

in a pissing contest over this. We shall have to agree to disagree. My problem is with the original poster who, instead of posting a postive about his own candidate, chose to go negative against Kucinich in not only this post but another as well.

We can do without the slams against other candidates. I think you and I agree that both Dean and Kucinich are good people and both would be a better President than the current wannabe.

Aside from some minor differences, we seem to want the same thing, the defeat of the BFEE. Most folks on DU are like that, regardless of their candidate of choice. Too bad some folks need to go negative. (sigh)

:toast: Here is to an ELECTED Democratic President

[clar]

15. Being able to "desecrate" a flag

should I feel the need to- is a BFD to me. OK, so it's a symbol. What if it came to symbolize tyranny to me from, say, years of pre-emptive wars? And what if I decided to carry a flag in a protest after having written shame in black paint across the stipes? And don't say that wouldn't be desecration. It very well might be. And if it's not, then imagine I wrote Fuck the war mongering congress. Anyway, a flag is not a person. It does not bleed or cry or laugh. It's a thing, a mass marketed thing. Yes, I recognize that it's heavily freighted with emotion, but that shouldn't elevate it to protected status.

DK's vote wouldn't prevent me from voting for him should he be the nominee. I'm just trying to point out why I feel passionately about this issue.

[mkregel]

9. Dean's position

should be the model for any politician out there today. IGNORE IT! IT IS A NON-ISSUE!!!

Folks, the flag burning ammendment is used by the conservatives to anger the Archie Bunkers out there into beating up anyone they don't like.

[AnAmerican]

11. Interesting....

A "non-issue" that you yourself say matters so much it alone would preclude you from voting for Kucinich. Seems you are a bit conflicted.

[mkregel]

13. You misunderstand me

It should be TREATED like a non-issue

Tho I think Dean should have gotten medeval on Kucinich for such a flagarant violation of his duties...

[gottaB]

16. Resolved: Free Speech is Unamerican

for Gephardt, Graham (since 1990, flipflopped), Kucinich

against Moseley Braun, Edwards, Kerry,

wobbly Dean, Lieberman (outlaw, but don't alter constitution--wtf?? danger, fine legal minds at work)

who knows? Sharpton ("Are you talking about the Confederate flag. Who's got the matches?")

[found object]

17. Don't be a ding dong

A ban on flag burning won't hurt your right to free speech. I believe it's against the law to burn the flag in France, yet they seem to speak freely 24/7.

[gottaB]

20. If I cut off one of your fingers

you'd still be able to count to ten.

The French accept all kinds of government restrictions upon speech and expression which we Americans would never tolerate.

According to Reporters sans frontières:

Violence against journalists and increasing challenges to the confidentiality of sources marred 2002. Some parts of French press law are in clear contradiction with freedom of expression and make France one of the most backward countries in the European Union where freedom of information is concerned.