Kerry/GBLT Issues

[JHS]

John Kerry is strong on many issues that are important to the GBLT community. Kerry recently told the Washington Post: “I'm in favor of civil unions. I've supported all forms of partnership union. I think gays should have all of the rights of ownership, of partnership, of visitation in hospitals, of inheritance and so forth. I think that's entirely within the civil structure of our country and that is appropriate. . . .” Moreover, John Kerry has already proven his commitment to the GBLT community. As a Senator, John Kerry was an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act. He also cosponsored the Employment Non-Discrimination Act to prohibit anti-gay discrimination in the workplace and has fought for increased HIV/AIDS funding. Kerry also strongly backed the Americans with Disabilities Act to help stop discrimination against those that are HIV positive. John Kerry received a 100 percent rating from the Human Rights Campaign for his work in support of civil rights during the 107th Congress. Look at his record, look at what he wants to do, and then support John Kerry. President Kerry will give the GBLT community a strong voice in Washington.

[JHS]

1. Kerry Reaction to Santorum

Kerry's statement on Senator Rick Santorum last April is also important to my last message. Reacting to Santorum's comments, John Kerry said: “The White House speaks the rhetoric of compassionate conservatism but they’re silent while their chief lieutenants make divisive and hurtful comments that have no place in our politics. The White House says Santorum is ‘one of the original compassionate conservatives’ who ‘has a philosophy that’s good for the people of Pennsylvania no matter who they are.’ Every day in our country, gay and lesbian Americans get up, go to work, pay their taxes, support their families, and contribute to the nation they love. These comments take us backwards in America.” Kerry's reaction to Santorum again demonstrates his commitment to the GBLT community.

[dsc]

2. Kerry has a great record on this

Unlike some Kerry supporters who seem to have as their life's mission trashing Howard Dean, you won't hear me trashing John Kerry. I literally just finished watching the HRC Forum. I was impressed with Kerry like I always am. I do though, have to ask the trash talkers to watch that forum and please explain the difference between what Kerry said in regards to same sex marriage and what Dean has said. But he has been terrific on LGBT issues and if Dean doesn't win I hope Kerry does.

[Teacher4dean04]

3. Yup, Kerry did very well!

I have to say, I agreed with his stance 100% in that the nation isn't ready yet to elect a President who will say "I'm for gay marriage." That's sad, but the truth of the situation. I respect those candidates who stated clearly that they are for gay marriage, but they will not get elected. Smaller steps are what people are willing to adjust to, rather than a quick change.

Dean was funny though, eh? Handled the tough questions with humor and intelligence...maybe this will get people off the kick that he doesn't handle confrontation well.

[DrFunkenstein]

4. I Agree (Except The Putting Dean First Part)

Unlike some Kerry supporters who seem to have as their life's mission trashing Howard Dean, you won't hear me trashing Howard Dean. At least I try really hard not to cross the line between articulating why I think Kerry is better and why I think Dean is worse. Dean is my second choice, and as far as I'm concerned, there are only two candidates running.

My personal feelings are for both gay weddings and gay adoptions, but I find resistance even among my NE liberal friends, so I don't find it surprising that the larger public is not willing to support them - yet. But just as the GOP is slowly eroding reproductive rights, we have to take this issue one step at a time and believe we are moving in the right direction.

[valniel]

8. Civil-union v. Marriage

I’m not sure what the legal difference, if any, between a civil-union and marriage should be. The word MARRIAGE, in the Judeo-Christian culture, has a history reaching back many thousands of years and to change its meaning will always cause a lot of resistance and anger.
If people joined in a “civil-union” can get the same legal standing as people joined in “marriage,” will the struggle be won, or will it go on with the same intensity until everybody is married?

[Nicholas_J]

10. Congratulations to you...

And if more Dean supporters were like you in this regard,
You would not see me trashing Dean at all.

It would be interesting to note that Dean attacked Kerry's record on his support of gays though, and then had to ask the press to retract it, and that resulted in Dean having to state that Kerry had a good record on support of gays in the South Carolina debates.

Kerry did not have to wait and think about what to do regarding gays when it was his time to take a stand. HE has always come forth first to defend them, whether in front of the House Armed Services comittee with the stance of throwing them out of the service if discovered. Or in opposition of the defense of marriage act.

Dean made comments about his comfort levels with gay marriage, which is why I doubt his sincerity much of the time. It seems he watched the polls too closely back then, and does so now.

There are many reports about Dean and his indecisiveness before signing civil unions, and his own first statements, when caught by the press before his speech writers could write something for him is indicative of this.

[dsc]

11. You are being dishonest again

The press FALSELY reported that Dean attacked Kerry on Kerry's record on gays. That is why a RETRACTION was issued. As usual you charge Dean with being dishonest when you were.

And it should be noted that Kerry's statement which was given with full ability to prepare said just about the same thing. He said he thought marriage was something which should be man/woman only. Just how is that better in any way what so ever from what Dean said?

[Nicholas_J]

12. Not quite

Dean qustioned Kerry's support of gays and the press used the term Questioning Kerry's courage, but he used this in relation to something that was unrelated to gays, so Dean called the newspapers to task for that and got the retration tat Dean did not question Kerr'y courage. Dean did attack Kerry's support of gays

[ButterflyBlood]

5. Kerry voted against the Defense of Marriage Act

the only senator up for reelection that year to do so. so obviously his record is fantastic.

[dsc]

6. He voted against DOMA

but is against gay marriage and in favor of Civil Unions. He said marriage has a religious and cultural history in this country. He basicly did what Dean did. Dean also prevented DOMA in Vermont. Kerry has a good record no arguments here but he is against same sex marrige for pretty much the same reason Dean gave.

[Teacher4dean04]

7. From the HRC survey...

...that the candidates filled out you can see that Dean and Kerry are almost identical on this issue.

http://www.hrc.org/campaigns/2004/candidates/quest_summary.pdf

[Nicholas_J]

13. Except for Deans statements right after the vote:

Then, within one hour of the Vermont Supreme Court decision that declared gay marriage constitutional, Dean clumsily told reporters that when it comes to homosexual marriage, he was "uncomfortable about it, just like anybody else."

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/3867

Again what is more important is what a person in the position of doing something does. Dean faltered, waited, didnt even support the idea of civil unions initially. What is even more of a problem is Dean blowing his very, very ,very minor and non-commital role in this case into his being the champion of gay rights.

Most gays in Vermont did not support Dean, but the progressive candidate, Anthony Pollina, who was the true hero of the civil union act. But fears that votiing for Pollina would cost Dean the election and throw it to Ruth Dwyer, who threatened to try to overturn the civil union act, gave Dean the handful of votes he needed to win...



If Dean doesn't top 50 percent in the popular vote, the new Legislature names the next governor. And Dean acknowledges that the flap over so-called ''gay marriage'' ensures a more conservative Legislature. Dean's task is complicated by third-party candidate Anthony Pollina of the Progressive Party, who could be the same sort of spoiler to Dean that Ralph Nader is to Vice President Al Gore. Pollina's getting 6 percent in one poll, most of it out of Dean's pot.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/Yea_or_nay_yours_will_count+.shtml


Progressive Anthony Pollina founded Rural Vermont, a farm advocacy organization; worked for U.S. Rep. Bernie Sanders (I- VT); and most recently served as policy advisor for the Vermont Public Interest Research Group. In his 2000 run for Governor, Pollina’s support for gay marriage distinguished him from his opponents, Democratic Gov. Howard Dean and Republican Ruth Dwyer.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/2002/09SEP2002/news04_ltgov.htm

There are a number of Democrats and a number of Catholics who I have lost the support of, and I need to get that support back. The biggest problem for me (in November) is (Progressive) Anthony (Pollina). Anthony is going to take votes away from me and he’s not going to take any votes away from (Republican) Ruth (Dwyer). So actually the better he does, the more likely it is that Ruth Dwyer is going to be Governor.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jun2000/news06_dean%20.htm


Dean support off base

I am writing to express my deep disappointment in the recent fundraising letter from Vermonters for Civil Unions, Inc. effectively endorsing Governor Howard Dean in his bid for reelection. Their call to make qualifying contributions to Dean’s campaign smacks of pandering and a desire to maintain the privilege of the few rather then seek justice for all. Governor Dean has clearly stated on any number of occasions that he does not support marriage rights for all people and that he does support maintaining an unjust, two- tiered apartheid system in which those of us who are deemed to be abnormal are not to be treated equally under the law...

Governor Dean has proven that he’ll only support us when he’s trapped or it’s convenient. For example, his recent interview with OITM where he virtually begged the queer community to support him over Anthony Pollina is simple, pathetic fear-mongering. He feels trapped and he comes to us for help. It’s truly depressing to see the privileged elites of the GLBT community and the privileged elites of the Democratic Party falling all over themselves in an effort to suck up to one another. The Governor should be ashamed of himself for attempting to scare queer folk and progressives into voting for him.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jul2000/letters.htm


While Dean has between 45 percent and 48 percent in recent polls, Dwyer is in the mid 30s. Complicating the picture is a strong third-party candidate, Progressive Party nominee Anthony Pollina, who draws about 6 percent in the polls.

"If Anthony Pollina weren't in this race, we wouldn't be having this conversation," said University of Vermont political scientist Anthony Gierzynski. "He draws disproportionately from Howard Dean. If there wasn't that erosion of the Democratic support from the left caused by Pollina, the Take Back Vermont, Ruth Dwyer and anti-civil unions forces wouldn't have a chance in terms of the governor's race."

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/02/vermontgovernor.ap/


Again, Dean used fear-mongering to get votes from gays, as Bush used fear-mongering after 9/11.

Democrats abandoned the Democratic party for Pollina, sick of Deans conservatism, and Dean largely won the last election becasue of moderate Repubican support, not because democrats loved that Dean magic.

[dsc]

14. Tom Paine blew this

I have no idea how often he spins like he did on this but I posted on the old DU an interview from Out in the Mountains where Dean had indeed at the very same press conference where he said he was uncomforable with marrige he came out for the civil unions. Paine messed up this one isn't on you but on him.

This is from your very own link (the one I also had found).

OITM: Immediately after the Supreme Court's Baker ruling, you sided with domestic partnership legislation. How did you come to make this decision and what role do you think your position played in the ultimate outcome of the debate?

Dean: I knew that marriage was impossible and that the legislature would just kill themselves. They couldn't do it; they'd fall into terrible disarray. I thought the court decision left civil union as a legal alternative, which would grant the rights and the benefits, as they required. I thought that in time Vermonters would come to accept that. In the end, I think my position gave cover to a lot of people in the legislature. It really helped legislators who were struggling with the issue.

OITM: When you finally announced your position, you said that gay marriage made you "uncomfortable like everyone else." Can you clarify what you meant by that and specifically what about gay marriage makes you uncomfortable?

Dean: The truth is that it is the politics that made me uncomfortable. (Personally) I'm sure that I have the same hang-ups that lots of people have on the issue. But it is a matter of equity. I remain convinced that of the 50 percent of people who are opposed to this, that half of those are fundamentally decent human beings and this is just a vast change for them that they've never considered before. I consider those people people who will ultimately accept the equality of gays and lesbians and stop marginalizing them. Those are the people that I have to speak to.


Please note the use of the word immediately in the first question and the construction of the second question. They are both OITM's questions and they show that at the same time Dean announced his support for civil unions he made the uncomforatable comment. Also that these events happened immediately. Combined that shows that Tom Paine, intentionally or unintentionally spun this to the discredit of Dean. Dean did not, as Paine strongly implies, say he was uncomfortable with gay marriage and then sit around for some amount of time before supporting civil unions. I know why reading his piece you came to that conclusion but reading the OITM piece should have disabused you of that notion.

One last thing. The letter you quoted was from one gay man (no title or position given in his signature) and every last complaint that he has against Dean in regards to civil unions vs marriage applies directly to Kerry too. It is patently dishonest to use that letter to attempt to elevate Kerry's position over that of Dean. It also should be noted that gays should damn well have been afraid. If Dryer had won that race not only would have Vermont gays and lesbians have lost the most rights they had ever gotten in any state in the US gays and lesbians everywhere would have seen hell freeze over before a politician stuck his or her neck out for us again. Congrads you found a gay ingrate. I could have told you that they existed without your printing his letter.

One last thing Your claim that Democrats deserted Dean for the Progressive candidate and that Dean only won due to moderate Republican support is patently absurd. Around 10% voted for the Progressive (who BTW couldn't even get Sander's endorsement) leaving around 90% who voted for either Dean or Dryer. Even if you assume that what you meant to say was that a majority of Dean's supporters were moderate Republicans that would make Vermont around 65% Republican (Dryer's 37% + 25% of Dean's support). If a state that is 65% Republican votes for Sanders regularly and voted for Gore overwhelmingly in 2000 then Hell truely has frozen over.

[GDK]

9. Don't ask, don't tell

Kerry was also against the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy" of the Clinton administration. Only a few Senators went before the Senate Armed Services Committee and called on President Clinton to end the ban gay and lesbian members of the military, and he was one of them.

[DrFunkenstein]

15. Do The Candidates Support Public Ceremonies?

Although there may be some reason for not forcing the churches to accept gay marriage, do civil unions include public ceremonies. I am sadly uninformed about the details of civil unions.

I think gays should be able to get married, but the government shouldn't make it a guaranteed right. How does this fit into the candidates' views about the issue?

[dsc]

16. Yes they can include public ceremonies

I don't have a link for this as it was a personal story told to me at Cleveland Pride. A couple from Cleveland drove up to Montpellier to obtain a civil union ceremony. The found that the Clerk of Montpellier's county was off that day but had left specific instructions to call him if a couple came in for a civil union licence. After the clerk came in and issued the licence the couple was taken to a judge who performed the civil union on the steps of the Vermont State Capital building. It was such a sweet story.