Need good info on the Great Depression

[Narkos]

I'm really sick of looking up stuff on the Great Depression and getting back revisionist histories about the Great Depression from the market fundamentalists ie. the Government was responsible for it or prolonged it. Does anyone have a link to a good read on the Great Depression from a more objective source?

[gateley]

1. I'm interested in seeing the responses, too, because I'm wondering if that's

where we're heading again.

Edit to take away my "welcome!" message -- I see you've been here a while. :7

[Zynx]

2. If you want to understand how we got into, read "Rainbow's End".

[Narkos]

11. Thanks. I'll definitely check it out!

[endarkenment]

3. Wait about a year.

A huge revival of Keynesian economics will accompany the global financial collapse and the utter route of the 30 year run of neoliberal/neocon idiocy.

[sendero]

15. Exactly..

..... this will put the nail in the coffin of "supply side economics" for decades if not forever.

It will also make Republican a dirty word among a lot more people, because there are only a small number who have benefited from their mismanagement.

So, there is a silver lining.

[Gman]

4. Read "The Grapes Of Wrath"

or watch the movie.

[msongs]

5. world war 2 ended it. war is good for the economy especially when it's overseas nt

[pansypoo53219]

6. it certainly is keeping georgie's

unemployment #s look better. and keeping wall street humming.
but as this isn't a 'war', it's not doing enough.

[Sadie5]

7. What my mother told me

She was a small child in Ohio when the depression hit. He father had a good job in a bottling plant and there were seven kids+ her mother. Her dad lost his job and then the house because there was no money to pay bills. They soon moved from the city to a small junky house in the country. They were not alone, others had followed them to the country, I presume to be able to grow food to keep from starving to death. My mother hated the Republicans for doing this to the country.

[Warpy]

18. That's not quite true.

The country was well on the road to recovery by the late 30s. Roosevelt had a couple of false starts, and then hit on a program to put people back to work, put money in their pockets, and work on the national infrastructure at the same time. It was pure genius. Demand came back when people found themselves with money to spend, production restarted, and the country was beginning to be what it was before the Harding/Coolidge/Hoover snake oil of deregulated markets and low taxes on the rich had destroyed it.

What the war did was reduce manpower in the factories and raise wages, even women's wages as they were drawn into factory work.

[Lone_Wolf]

22. ABout war being good for the economy?

I've heard the mantra repeated hundreds of times that war is good for the economy. The Right repeats this mantra all the time which made me suspicious of it.

The word "war" seems to be carefully chosen to avoid saying, "government spending that puts people back to work"

The government spent huge amounts of money during WWII which put many people back to work. If the same amount of money was spent on the FDR's New Deal programs (which paled by comparison), then it too probably would have pulled us out of the Great Depression.

[shraby]

8. Check your library for an older book.

There are some good informative ones that haven't revised history.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

9. K&R--INTERESTING TOPIC -- I was just listening to

Major General Smedley Butler Audio Documentary-War is a Racket... - Runtime 29 Minutes - Produced by Andy Lanset for HearingVoices.com http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4377.htm

I'll save this thread till I have more time to help search for you!
It's hard to find real Historic research-- example; I've try finding good info. on Nicola Tesla;
History made him out to be mad--
he invented the poly-phase AC electric current, we use today.
Radio,Radio Control, computers, satellites, microwaves and much more....
Physicist, inventor, and electrical engineer--
he lived during the time of Thomas Edison-- http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/index.html PBS may be a good start for you!

I remember hearing about the depression from my grandmother who kept money and coins under her mattress, for the rest of her life! She did have US Saving Bonds, though!
Even though my grandfather was a well to do home builder and had property and had a farm to move to-- at the time things were really tough for them..
They had to eat Lima Beans, bread and butter for dinner, everyday...
We have some really great pictures...There's one picture that has a 1929 model car,looks brand new..
Apparently my grandparents made Root bear or apple cider during Prohibition... :rofl:

Democrats in power drifted away from the core values of the Democratic Party..
They started trying to compete for corporate campaign money by permitting awful trade
agreements that undermined the American economy and weakened the American middle class.

"Media consolidation has blocked out almost all non-corporate voices
in the discussion of public policy issues. Edwards wants less corporate control
over everyday life and has specific programs in mind to move in that direction."

In 1933 president Roosevelt launched his program for economic recovery--
"During the 1930’s, President Roosevelt moved the Democratic Party solidly behind a political program of economic populism. As a result, the nation saw a couple generations of solid
economic growth and mass prosperity.

A vibrant middle class emerged from the policies promoted by FDR.
The Democratic Party clearly replaced the Republicans as the stronger of the two major parties
as a result."

FDR pulled this country together when we were in total economic collapse.
With his 'New deal' he put America back to work building our infrastructure,
pulled us out of the Great depression and made us all proud for all we
accomplished,thanks to his leadership--

Kucinich and Edwards are FDR Democrats --

"It is time for a President of the United States to ask Americans
to be Patriotic about something other than war" John Edwards

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=opedne_stephen__071223_edwards_is_fdr_with_.htm

[Narkos]

12. Great article on Smedley Butler!

I'll look forward to your future recs

[DianaForRussFeingold]

16. I agree with other reply that older books may be more truthful.-

:pals: this is the best I could find tonight;'What Caused the Great Depression of the 1930's?'-
What the unemployment figures
don't show is also how "under-employed" many people who were not on the list were likely to be.


"The Great Depression of the 1930s was the economic event of the 20th century. The history of the depression is fascinating because it is a reference point for economic misery and fear. When people make financial planning decisions and politicians set policy the depression experience is, or maybe should be, in the back of everyone's mind as a worst case scenario.

The depression is also interesting because, in hindsight, the downturn could have been much shallower had policy makers not made certain mistakes. Some of these mistakes have been very well researched by economists over the years and are highlighted here. There are also lessons to be had from the depression on human behavior and society in general. Lessons such as how blind and greedy we become when swept away by delusions of grandeur, only to flagellate ourselves when our dreams don't work out. And how our initial reaction to fear is to create barriers between others and ourselves resulting in added misery for everyone.

If this was an article about how we recovered from the Great Depression there would also be inspiring stories of leadership and daring generosity among all kinds of people. How facing extreme difficulties put people in touch with a wealth that was beyond their empty bank accounts. In this article though we'll focus on the economics of the downside."



"The Great Depression began in 1929 when the entire world suffered an enormous drop in output and an unprecedented rise in unemployment. World economic output continued to decline until 1932 when it clinked bottom at 50% of its 1929 level. Unemployment soared, in the United States it peaked at 24.9% in 1933. It remained above 20% for two more years, reluctantly declining to 14.3% by 1937. It then leapt back to 19% before its long-term decline. Since most households had only one income earner the equivalent modern unemployment rates would likely be much higher. Real economic output (real GDP) fell by 29% from 1929 to 1933 and the US stock market lost 89.5% of its value.

Another unusual aspect of the Great Depression was deflation. Prices fell 25%, 30%, 30%, and 40% in the UK, Germany, the US, and France respectively from 1929 to 1933. These were the four largest economies in the world at that time.

To put the severity of the depression in modern perspective, consider the following. Real US GDP went down 4.4% in the five years that it declined since 1959, all added together! Unemployment has never exceeded 9.7% and we have not had one year of deflation. Maybe you're thinking, "what's wrong with a little price deflation?" Depending on how much and how unexpected, deflation can be a devastating economic event. Imagine wages falling by 30% and the value of debts simultaneously increasing by that much.

In the great depression it would have been nice if the suffering had been so evenly distributed. Instead the deflation caused bankruptcies, which in turn led to, more bankruptcies! Millions of people and companies were wiped out completely. The lack of adequate social programs left people of all social strata depending on relatives and friends for charity. Spending became paralyzed with fear as the downturn was so unexpected, so severe, and the bad news just kept coming for years.

Many did not realize how severe the downturn was until 1932 or 1933 when the economy had technically hit bottom and even begun to chug forward. People's resources were depleted by then and so were many of their friends'. So the human misery caused by the Depression really started in the mid-1930s.

The political backlash to the miserable economic situation is often blamed for toppling democracies, bringing fascist governments to power in Germany, Italy, and Japan, and ultimately provoking the Second World War. "Hitler's rise to power can be directly linked to the profound economic crisis in Germany at that time". The German economic crisis was compounded by the huge war reparations imposed upon the Germans following World War I (an interesting comment on the efficacy of economic sanctions!)." more..... http://www.shambhala.org/business/goldocean/causdep.html :yourock:
- -
"There were many other factors which made the human experience much worse than it had to be such as the lack of adequate social safety nets like Unemployment Insurance, Social Security, Medicare, and Welfare programs. These programs were mostly implemented in response to the Great Depression and have well served the function of automatic economic stabilizers since. It is morbidly amusing to witness policy debate over such programs by politicians these days who have forgotten the depression. When times are good, those in need are seen as anomalous social groups and social programs become ill funded and pejorative. Perhaps it takes a Great Depression once in a while to remind us that we are all cut from the same cloth. It is just a matter of time." Layth Matthews

[Narkos]

17. Wow, that's some good info! Thanks!

[RainDog]

10. google henry wallace

he was FDR's first v.p. and he was no friend of the killer capitalists.

[CGowen]

13. Tarpley has a chapter online, I don't know if it's revisionist in your eyes or objective.

I still haven't read it.


PART 7

BRITISH FINANCIAL WARFARE: 1929; 1931- 33

http://www.tarpley.net/29crash.htm

[Narkos]

14. I'll give it a good look....

but apparently the guy is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist...

[truedelphi]

20. It seems to assign blame to the Federal Reserve System

A theory that I support.

Thank you for the citation

[truedelphi]

19. Check out the final tiny url mentioned in my sig line

Part of the problem was that the stock market was selling on the margin - you only had to put up a small amount of money to purchase the stocks. (Exactly what has been happening with the sub prime mortgage lending techniques - NO DOWN PAYMENT NEEDED. And you can purchase a 175,00 dollar house even if you make 18,000 a year!)

It basically became a Ponzi scheme and then when certain elements at the top decided they had raked in enough money to feel REAL good about the scam, they pulled the rug out from under everyone else.

Joseph Kennedy Sr always bragged that he drew all his money out of the market before the crash because on eday his shoe shine boy was giving him stock tips SO he claims he acted on that inward voice that says "If something is too good to be true, and when everyone is saying things can only go up, not down - that's when it is time to get out." I've always wondered if maybe he knew one or two of the people at the top of the Ponzi scheme and that his cashing out was less mystical than how he made it sound.

Hoover refused to make any adjustments by way of printing up money or adjsuting the interest rates (If my memory serves.) Of course there are bad things about doing those things too. And whether or not FDR stopped the Depression, he sure helped a huge segment of society put food on their familie4s by his work programs. The government began spending money on needed things.

Even in the nineteen fifties, the kids on my block walked on sidewalks put together by FDR's work programs, splashed in park fountains during the heat of our summer play days, and drove with our parents on roads constructed during FDR's heyday.

[truedelphi]

21. BTW one myth that needs to get out there is the notion that

A person's deposits are backed up by the FDIC.

Well yes they are backed up, like if the local bank manager takes ff with huge sums of money through embezzlement.

But if all the banks go belly up at once - Lots of Luck, kiddo.

When Illinois COntinental failed in the early eighties, economists pointed out that only two or three other giants going down would leave the FDIC coffers high and dry for bank four and five failing.