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Why We're Not at the Beginning of the End, and Probably Not Even At the End of the Beginning

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:15 PM
Original message
Why We're Not at the Beginning of the End, and Probably Not Even At the End of the Beginning
Why We're Not at the Beginning of the End, and Probably Not Even At the End of the Beginning
http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-were-not-at-beginning-of-end-and.html">Robert Reich's Blog


Are we at the beginning of the end? Mortgage interests are now so low (the average rate on 30-year fixed mortgages was 4.87 percent Thursday, slightly higher than the 4.78 percent last week, but still the lowest level since 1971) that President Obama has begun urging Americans to refinance their homes so they can save money and start spending again. Presidential aide Larry Summers says the country is likely to see positive economic signs in the next few months. Wells Fargo Bank rallied stocks and surprised analysts Thursday when it predicted a strong $3 billion first-quarter profit, citing surging mortgage originations. And executives at the nation's biggest three banks -- JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, and Citigroup -- say their operations were (at least by some measures) profitable in the first two months of this year, mainly because a resurgent debt market and equity trading lifted earnings in the investment banking divisions.

But we're not at the beginning of the end. I'm not even sure we're at the end of the beginning. All of these pieces of upbeat news are connected by one fact: the flood of money the Fed has been releasing into the economy. Of course mortage rates are declining, mortgage orginations are surging, and people and companies are borrowing more. So much money is sloshing around the economy that its price is bound to drop. And cheap money is bound to induce some borrowing. The real question is whether this means an economic turnaround. The answer is it doesn't.

Cheap money, you may remember, got us into this mess. Six years ago, the Fed (Alan Greenspan et al) lowered interest rates to 1 percent. Adjusted for inflation, this made money essentially free to large lenders. The large lenders did exactly what they could be expected to do with free money -- get as much of it as possible and then lent it out to anyone who could stand up straight (and many who couldn't). With no regulators looking over their shoulders, they got away with the financial equivalent of murder.

The only economic fundamental that's changed since then is that so many people got so badly burned that the trust necessary for consumers, investors, and businesses to repeat what they did then has vanished. Yes, banks will lend to highly trustworthy borrowers, and the low-hanging fruit of highly trustworthy borrowers is the first they'll pick. But there's not much of this kind of fruit to go around. And yes, some consumers will refinance and use the extra money they extract from their homes to spend again. But most will use the extra money to pay off debt and start saving again, as they did years ago. Most consumers continue to worry about their jobs, and for good reason.

Some of the big banks will claim to be profitable, but don't bank on it. Neither they nor anyone else knows what their assets are really worth. Besides, the big banks are sitting on over $500 billion over taxpayer equity and loans. Who knows how they're calculating profits? Most importantly, there's still a yawning gap between the economy's productive capacity and what it's now producing, and absolutely nothing will turn the economy around until that gap begins to close.

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-were-not-at-beginning-of-end-and.html">More...
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gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Title makes no sense.
If you write an oped shouldn't your title make sense?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It makes perfect sense to me.
It's a good play on Churchill's famous quote. I think Reich is an excellent writer.
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gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. He is but
it makes no sense,explain it to me.End of the beginning?
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. HUH?
Most importantly, there's still a yawning gap between the economy's productive capacity and what it's now producing

Can't think of much we actually produce, other than debt.

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Reich is saying that we are not using our full productive capacity.
I think you're saying the same thing.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Kinda, but.....
In this part of the world, the last person on many of the payrolls was putting labels on the machinery for export.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. As my math teacher used to say..
.. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

If people here won't even listen to Reich, they won't listen to anybody.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. America would be better served....
...if the $Trillions had been injected directly into American Manufacturing instead of bailing out the failed Wall Street Bankers.

At least we would have something to show for our money.
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Poor Robert Reich
Having to sit there with Kudlow and Laffer, the guys who were saying "what recession" as recently as August.

As he was alluding to in the article you can't use the financial crisis as shorthand for the recession. They are two different things that have to be dealt with seperately and the number one hurdle to resuming growth is excess production capacity. Unused capacity is tremendously expensive for business and translates to unemployment, losses and write-offs.

Predictors of unused capacity like rail traffic and drybulk shipping activity can check the blood pressure of the economy. After a brief rise both are on the decline again, bad news because the unemployment rate accelerated sharply after the last time these two measures tanked in the second half of 2008.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Do you have a link?
Do you have an easy link to these predictors? I remember the correlation with 2008 unemployment and I wanted to compare the trends again. Thanks!
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Links...
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Looks like you've got a link for shipping.
Here's a good site showing current rail traffic and trends.

http://railfax.transmatch.com/
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-14-09 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. thanks...couldn't find graphs...
...
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. As far as I can tell....
Edited on Mon Apr-13-09 05:17 PM by wuvuj
...we will get an economic bounce in somewhere in the 3rd...4th...1st Q 2010...but some expect a double dip recession...and/or very slow growth ahead. Some expect rising energy prices to act as a tax and a damper on recovery. Then there are the increasing costs of global warming.

S&P....Zacks....


http://www.arpllp.com/core_files/The%20Absolute%20Return%20Letter%200409.pdf

* plus the cost of the economic crisis is about 6.4% of the cost of the aging population...SS and Medicare costs to come...


Some really NICE charts...get a REAL perspective?

http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/2009OutlookFinal_Long.pdf
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-14-09 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. To continue....
Edited on Tue Apr-14-09 06:24 AM by wuvuj
...with the things that will impede a resumption of economic growth as usual?

I'm not trying to be negative...just realistic.


http://www.arpllp.com/core_files/The%20Absolute%20Return%20Letter%200409.pdf


* increasing costs of global warming as far as droughts/fires...food costs...refugee issues, etc

* Haven't seen any info on this. *


* according to the article at oildrum...peak energy has already happened...as economic growth picks up...energy costs will act to dampen recovery. Nat gas is expected to double in price by next winter.


* on top of this...coming SS and Medicare costs DWARF by 15Xs the costs of the current economic problems


* and all the current debt related problems will project well into the future until they are worked off the balance sheets


* then there is a political drag on the eventual outcome...in that the mostly inherited econ mess and failure to deal with global warming...peak energy...SS/Medicare etc. will not be easy to overcome...increasing the likelihood that the same group of *nut cases* will be back in power sooner than many would like to think. If this happens during a period where all these factors are coalescing...it won't be pretty?

I would say a last ditch and insane effort to garner most world resources and go to war for same...while using the emergency status as an excuse for martial law...this will be 9/11 fear-factored up several times? They've already practiced their techniques...the laws are in place...just waiting to get back into power...and start pushing buttons again.


Or maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake and I'm simply describing what has ALREADY HAPPENED to some extent? So will it HAPPEN AGAIN...in a worse way?











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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Costs of global warming...
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. Reich should have been Treasury Secretary...not this nitwit Geithner.
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