"Environmentalist" Bill Ford Opposes CA Bill For High-MPG Hybrid Owners

[hatrack]

"Ford Motor Co. Chairman Bill Ford, who pitches himself as one of America's leading corporate environmentalists, has launched a campaign in the waning days of the legislative session to kill a plan that would reward Californians who buy the most fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles. Embraced by Hollywood celebrities, Treasurer Phil Angelides and even Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, AB 2628 by Assemblywoman Fran Pavley, D-Agoura Hills, would set aside 75,000 permits to let owners of hybrids that average 45 mpg or more and meet near-zero-emission standards to drive solo in highway car-pool lanes.

In a letter to Schwarzenegger that Ford copied to state lawmakers who have yet to take a final vote, he calls the plan a "Buy Japanese" bill and a "special-interest measure ... intended for almost exclusive use by Toyota Prius drivers." The Prius and Honda's Insight and Civic hybrids meet the legislation's requirements, but Ford has no product that does. Its new Escape hybrid, which will be the first full hybrid SUV to be on the market, is expected to get about 35 mpg.

Ford goes on to say the legislation would hurt company employees and stockholders, and he asks the GOP governor to veto the measure if the Legislature sends it his way.

EDIT

It was unclear whether Ford's lobbying effort is jeopardizing the measure's passage - or whether it could yield amendments to allow a lower mileage standard for hybrid SUVs through the life of a pilot project. The car-pool lane permits would be good only until 2008. Schwarzenegger aides said last week that the governor does not intend to veto the bill if it comes before him. "We're prepared to work with Ford Motor to see if there's any way we might be able to resolve our differences without compromising the integrity or the intention of the original legislation," said spokeswoman Terri Carbaugh."

EDIT

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/environment/story/10491159p-11410496c.html

Yeah! Way to embrace those free-market forces, Big Green Bill!

[still_one]

1. It won't matter, I already have two Prius hybrids

Honda is coming out with a Hybrid accord in the fall, and Toyota will release there highlander hybrid in the first quarter of next year

America has already lost to the Japanese because of there short-sighted outlook...

[phantom power]

5. And here we go again... "It's Japan's fault!!"

If the Big Three spent half as much energy actually building better cars as they do trying to legislate their way out of having to build them, they wouldn't have to worry about getting creamed by the Japanese.

It's a shame that so many auto workers will pay the price, and the CEOs will make off with millions of dollars regardless.

[Strelnikov_]

8. Question Regarding Toyota/Honda Designs

From what I understand, the Prius is rated at 60 mpg, and has a power train configuration that does not turn on/engage the combustion engine until 15-20 mph.

The Honda Civic hybrid is rated at 48 mpg, and has a power train where the combustion engine is always on, with the electric drive providing additional power for acceleration.

It seems to me that the Prius design is superior, particularly for an urban environment where stop and go traffic is the norm. Is there some design advantage that led Honda to develop the system as they did?

[hatrack]

9. Honda's plan was essentially "quicker/faster/cheaper"

Honda calls their system the IMA - Integrated Motor Assist. What it means in the two models they've released so far, the Insight and the hybrid Civic, is that you have the gas engine providing the bulk of the power at all speeds, with the electric motor kicking in to get the car moving.

Can't remember the exact figures, but I think the Insight 3-cylinder 1,000 cc is rated at about 50 hp, with the motor providing about another 15. The Civic's rated at 85 hp with a 1,300 cc ICE and a similar ratio of gas to electric. The advantage of this system is that it's simpler to design and build. It's one of the reasons that Honda was able to beat Toyota to the US market with the Insight, which was available here about a year before the Prius arrived.

Toyota's hybrid system ("Hybrid Synergy Drive") is considerably more robust, with the hybrid battery providing over half of the total horsepower. I have a 2001 Prius, and while the gas engine provides 70 hp, the hybrid motor adds another 44. The new one's even more balanced - 76 hp from the engine, 67 from the hybrid motor. The advantages are obvious - more power, lower emissions and the ability to run the car in all-electric mode for several miles at a time.

However, this is a much more technically intense undertaking, with more basic engineering prerequisites and more things to go wrong. The demands on battery design, in particular, have been big, and battery production bottlenecks are the single biggest reason Toyota can't ship enough of the new ones quickly enough.

So, bottom line is that they're somewhat apples and oranges - Honda's system designed to assist an existing powertrain, Toyota's designed as a new model of powertrain.

[Strelnikov_]

17. Thanks For The Response, Sounds Like The Toyota Is 'NextGen'

One interesting 'rumor' I was reading concerned 'pluggable' hybrids. That is, modifiying the Toyota approach to charge off AC in order to make 'electric only' a feasible option for short trips.

When I look at my driving patterns, maybe 8 mi./day in town, an electric only mode could offer some potential.

The 'rumor' noted that Toyota denies any interest in a 'pluggable' hybrid.

[tridim]

2. Here's an idea Ford..

Make a Ford hybrid that competes with the Japanese hybrids. That's probably too logical though. After all the profit margin on giant Explorers is just too enticing for the stock holders.

[Raster]

3. Without reading the article, I already have one comment....

...Bill Ford calls the bill a "Buy Japanese" bill and a "special-interest measure ... intended for almost exclusive use by Toyota Prius drivers." Well, who's fault is that? Where has the American car manufacturer response been on the issue of more economical thus more environmentally friendly vehicles? Hmmm... Come on, Bill, I'm waiting for an answer.

Time for a reality check. Global warming: yep, it's happening (contrary to what $hrubco and their WHORE scientists would have you believe). Humans changing (damaging) all of the planetary climatic and ecological zones: Yep it's happening. Running out of oil: Yep, it's definitely happening.

[fairfaxvadem]

4. We have that policy here in Virginia

If you buy a hybrid you qualify for the "Clean Fuel" plates in Virginia and can use the HOV lanes anytime solo. It's a nice perk for those who have those cars. I've seen more on the road, but not an overwhelming #. A friend's husband got a Prius and between the gas mileage and his "new" commute to and from DC using the HOV lanes, she said it's been great.

My coworkers and I were commenting that once again, Detroit is behind the 8-ball on this. Just like in the 70s when Toyota and Datsun were introducing the smaller fuel-efficient cars.

Also, the choices of small cars here is poor. I am constantly amazed by how the Europeans have more choices in small cars. And GM makes the Vauxhall line in Great Britain so it's not like they can't do it here. Peugeot, Renault, VW...all sold in Europe, all small cars.

Ford can take a hike. Losers.

[billbuckhead]

6. Ford said they couldn't find US suppliers to make components

Unbelievable. Henry Ford is spinning in his grave. Whatever happened to building your own components?

[madrchsod]

7. there are no suppliers

in the united states because no one wants to invest in america because you would have to pay the workers-----A DECENT FUCKING WAGE------------

[midnight armadillo]

10. BOO FUCKING HOO

The domestic makers had years and billions of public money thrown at them to produce an efficient, high mileage car. Where is it? Oh, wait, Toyota and Honda did it already with their own funds!

Why should the public have to pay for the unbelievable shortsightedness of GM, Ford, and Chrysler? I love how they claim that people never buy on mileage...well, how about a high mileage car and some marketing to go with it? Marketing created the SUV craze, after all. The Escape hybrid is late, late, late to market and now they bitch that they can't compete. Go Cheney yourself, Bill Ford!!

[lectrobyte]

11. I guess time to write Ford a letter and ask where that Hybrid Focus

is, or some hybrid small Volvo, or something... Ford is a huge world wide company, I can't believe they would lag this far behind Toyota and Honda. Seems like the original Insight has been out, what four or five years? Prius is on its second generation now, and the hybrid Civic has been around, what, two model years? I guess Ford is waiting for some of that nice Corporate Welfare to bail them out, probably having spent all the R&D money on redesigning F-150's etc.

[hatrack]

12. Ford is seven years late, GM and Chrysler even further behind

The first production Prius hit the showrooms back in October of 1997. This was the Japanese release, but four years after the debut of PNGV which the Japanese saw as America's auto sector finally getting serious about efficiency, Toyota had a hybrid model ready to buy. Honda hit the US market in 1999 with the Insight, and a slightly beefed-up version of the Prius arrived in 2000.

Though Ford, Chrysler and GM all hemmed and hawed when the Japanese Prius debuted at the Tokyo Auto Show back in 1997, muttering that of course their hybrids would be on the roads within two years (see "Taken For A Ride: Detroit and the Politics of Pollution" for details), nothing happened.

Now, Ford's hybrid Escape is in limited release, GM has 200 or 300 "hybrid" Silverados in fleet release, and that is the sum total of Detroit's response. Meanwhile, a hybrid Lexus SUV and hybrid Highlander will debut next spring, while Honda's hybrid Accord will supposedly arrive this fall. This is in addition to the three Japanese hybrid models already available.

Detroit will never get those seven years back, and may have surrendered an insurmountable lead to Japan.

[lectrobyte]

13. Thanks for the info. And speaking of surredering to Japan, no kidding,

am I the only person who thinks that this is a stupid attitude from
GM (see link below)? Is gas always going to cost 1.50 a gallon? Does it cost that much now in the rest of the world?

http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/06/pf/autos/detroit_gm_hybrids/index.htm

[phantom power]

14. They're deluded, for sure.

It's getting almost sad to watch. Like they're mentally stuck in the 1980s, suffering from dementia.

The next couple years ought to be interesting, as Toyota and Honda ramp up to major production. Will Detroit be able to continue its epic bout of denial when people are buying Japanese hybrids by the millions? Stay tuned!

[amandabeech]

15. I've defended Bill Ford and his company in this forum before,

but I am VERY disappointed with Bill's latest action.

Where's the hybrid Focus and mid-size sedan/sportswagon?

As to the parts, Ford will have to make them here. I have a hard time believing that U.S. labor is that much more expensive than Japanese labor, particularly considering the weakness of the U.S. dollar.

Perhaps Ford should be lobbying Washington for greater subsidies for hybrids to make up the difference for any labor cost differentials.

[phantom power]

16. The only positive thing I can recall about Ford is...

that "earth-friendly" factory they built. I really do think that was cool.

But it doesn't stack up very high against 20 years of consistently lobbying against increasing CAFE standards, and then this reactionary whining about how Japanese auto companies perpetrated the terrible crime of daring to offer Americans fuel-efficient cars.