Oh, XemaSab? "I wanna get vertical! Vertical!" . . . .

[hatrack]

[OKIsItJustMe]

1. I don't believe "vertical" is possible

A terrifyingly steep slope, yes, vertical, no.

[DS1]

2. So, it's higher than it was last year

What's the problem?

[OKIsItJustMe]

3. Is it higher than last year?

Looks about the same to me…

[DS1]

4. if you look at the graph in the original post

about this time last year it looked like an 11.1, and going down, whereas this year it's an 11.5

[OKIsItJustMe]

5. Gotcha

I don't think hatrack intended to draw that to our attentions.

[lapfog_1]

6. Measuring the area of sea ice isn't really all that useful

It's volume that matters.

Unfortunately, we don't have historical records that measure volume, but almost all climate scientists believe the volume is rapidly decreasing (though not monotonically).

The top graph (which only covers 1 year) shows .5 million sq mile increase (year over year) in sea ice coverage... but it's only a 4% increase. And it doesn't estimate volume, just area.

However, none of this matters, what matters is a 20 year or 30 year moving average that measures total sea ice, water temperature (for the entire volume of water), land temperature, etc.

This particular graph doesn't mean anything, other than there is 4% more sea ice AREA this year than this time last year.

[OKIsItJustMe]

7. "This particular graph doesn't mean anything, other than there is 4% more sea ice AREA this year…"

Well, remember, there are a number of concerns regarding sea ice. One very serious one is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice-albedo_feedback">albedo change. More ice coverage means less absorption of sunlight by open seas.

So, to that extent, a larger area of white, floating ice is a good thing™ (even if it is thin.)

[lapfog_1]

8. But a 4% uptick for one season (not even one full year)..

won't significantly change the albedo of the entire planet.

Mind you, I'm happy that the sea ice area has increased somewhat...

But it doesn't mean that

a) global climate change isn't happening

b) global climate change is a self correcting phenomenon.

c) or even that the Arctic ocean is now cooling.

[OKIsItJustMe]

9. I think we're all in agreement

A slight year-over-year change doesn't mean much in the midst a long-term trend.

[XemaSab]

10. Is this about the Old Rasputin?

:shrug:

PS: I'd prefer horizontal myself. ;)

[OKIsItJustMe]

11. OK, I gotta ask

"Old Rasputin" as in the Imperial Stout?

[XemaSab]

12. That's the one

:toast:

[OKIsItJustMe]

14. A fine brew indeed

May I suggest:


:toast:

[XemaSab]

16. You're more than welcome to go place a bet...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=192647&mesg_id=192647

[OKIsItJustMe]

17. Thanks for clueing me in.

I don't think it'll go down to 1.5.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=196370&mesg_id=196373

However, I only bet on sure things.

[hatrack]

13. The very same - Brother Gregor thanks you!

:toast:

[OKIsItJustMe]

15. Or, if you'd like to take up a hobby…

http://morebeer.com/view_product/18344/102178/Imperial_Stout-_Extract