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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-11-09 11:18 PM Original message |
ETA says plug-in cars could "speed climate change" unless we get off coal |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-11-09 11:51 PM Response to Original message |
1. The ETA is wrong. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 11:46 AM Response to Reply #1 |
5. I think many miss a bigger point.... |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 12:20 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. Toyota PP found |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 12:54 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. The use of coal is temporary |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:11 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. I get that but thats a GOAL not NOW..... |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. What is your definition of "burns clean" |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:49 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Agreed but why get into the debate? |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 02:02 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. My last attempt. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 03:22 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. Thanks. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 06:47 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. What impact do you see from the nuclear industry? nt |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 07:30 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. Posted that one before...but here are some books. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 07:49 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. Actually I was more interested in what you had personally seen |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 08:38 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. sure...here |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 11:53 PM Response to Reply #30 |
39. I don't want to read your whole thesis |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 07:49 PM Response to Reply #20 |
24. Websites |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 07:53 PM Response to Reply #20 |
26. More |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 08:02 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Yes, I need more. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 08:55 PM Response to Reply #27 |
33. Let me ask you this... |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:29 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. 50 year - 100 years...how about 5 years. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 06:22 PM Response to Reply #9 |
19. Based on the time required to ramp up |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 07:41 PM Response to Reply #19 |
23. trust me the feds don't accept 50 years of coal. |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 08:27 PM Response to Reply #9 |
28. Nah. Not even. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 11:03 PM Response to Reply #7 |
38. great post! |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:48 PM Response to Reply #5 |
11. Wrong. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:52 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. coal is still burning dirty from the source with an EV in todays system of doing things |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:55 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Natural gas internal combustion is STILL emits far more CO2 than dirtiest coal plant. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 03:13 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. interesting if true |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 08:45 PM Response to Reply #17 |
32. Most of my power is hydroelectric. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 09:00 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. no water in NM..... |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-13-09 12:37 PM Response to Reply #34 |
44. Yeah, some environmental groups want to breach our dams |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 08:41 PM Response to Reply #13 |
31. Natural gas is a lot less efficient, for one. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 09:09 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. Not what I've heard. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:56 PM Response to Reply #11 |
15. zero emission according to NM DMV levlels which.... |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 08:35 PM Response to Reply #11 |
29. I'm sure there's an explanation for this |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-13-09 01:13 AM Response to Reply #29 |
41. Weight of the O2. nt |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-13-09 02:27 AM Response to Reply #41 |
42. And there it is. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-13-09 08:10 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. It is a common question. This link goes into little more detail. |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 11:58 PM Response to Reply #11 |
40. You are waving your hands here a bit. |
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happyslug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 06:13 PM Response to Reply #11 |
58. But I notice you ignore Electrical to Battery loss, nor the loss of Coal to electricity, |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 10:13 AM Response to Reply #58 |
64. Using coal as the sole fuel is wrong |
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happyslug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 11:38 AM Response to Reply #64 |
65. The EIA site, clearly show when it comes to generation of Electricity, not much difference. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 03:52 PM Response to Reply #65 |
78. Accepting *for the sake of argument* your claims it is still assembled wrong. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 10:55 PM Response to Reply #5 |
37. Ok so the total deal has to include not substituting coal for oil, duh. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-11-09 11:55 PM Response to Original message |
2. BS. EV powered 100% from coal is cleaner than internal combustion. |
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physioex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 01:49 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. I call BS as well..... |
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Greyskye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 11:01 AM Response to Original message |
4. Do they take into account nighttime charging? |
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rollingrock (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 07:20 PM Response to Original message |
21. The premise of your OP is invalid and false |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-12-09 09:11 PM Response to Reply #21 |
36. Thanks but not in my region, and I stated regional approaches...... |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-14-09 04:13 PM Response to Reply #21 |
45. According to the Energy Information Administration for 2006 Coal procuced 49% of our electric power |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-14-09 04:25 PM Response to Original message |
46. A GAO study concluded much the same thing. for PHEVs to achieve full potential requires producing |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-14-09 04:38 PM Response to Original message |
47. Careful. If you make any statements re PHEVs that qualify how much GHG savings they are likely to |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-14-09 04:45 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. Not really |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-23-09 06:07 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. DISINFORMATION ALERT! |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-23-09 06:17 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. Hey JohnWxy, love your posts, they have heart. What you seem to not realize... |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-23-09 06:21 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. You nailed it but, given our predicament, it hurts too much to laugh! |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-23-09 06:48 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. You have at least one answer (As I said ALL of them contradict you) |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-23-09 08:19 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. your capacity for lieing is truly amazing. STATE IN YEARS HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE FOR ELECTRIC CARS TO |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-23-09 08:59 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Suuuuiiiiiii... |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. Can't state how much GHG reductions achievable with PHEVs and how many years requred. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 07:43 PM Response to Reply #56 |
61. It was EPRI that studied GHG reductions with PHEVs. |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 02:47 PM Response to Reply #61 |
70. Seems whenever this report talks about emissions reductions projections they are for the year 2050. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 04:47 PM Response to Reply #70 |
81. Aggregate emissions between now and then is the important measure |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:56 PM Response to Reply #81 |
94. 16.4% to 26.7% GHG reductions from PHEVs by 2030 - Electric Power Research Institiute. . |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 03:32 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. Just a repittion of an article which says nothing about time-frame or % GHG reductions by PHEVs |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 06:35 PM Response to Reply #55 |
59. Not surprised pundit thinks Jacobsen "study" is good. It's fake-science using absurd assumptions |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 08:44 PM Response to Reply #59 |
62. Poor John. |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 01:34 PM Response to Reply #62 |
67. incomplete quote of what I said and what Jacobson assumed: Jacobson made his calculations based on |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 01:50 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. I didn't misquote anything. |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 03:41 PM Response to Reply #69 |
77. the reader will note the 'pundit' is squirming again, caught in his misrepresentation of what I have |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 04:25 PM Response to Reply #77 |
79. You are kidding right? |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:12 PM Response to Reply #79 |
83. Trying to run away from your misrepresentation of what I stated. inventing your own reality may |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:19 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. . |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:16 PM Response to Reply #79 |
84. Jacobson's "study" is nonsense, and trivial bullshit. The critique I pasted into my reply 59 says it |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:21 PM Response to Reply #84 |
86. Nobody takes Jacobson seriously? |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:47 PM Response to Reply #86 |
89. Every "plan". You are referring to the Electric Power Research "Institute"? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:58 PM Response to Reply #89 |
92. You pointed to nothing John, |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:07 PM Response to Reply #92 |
93. You seem to becoming less and less lucid. YOU said: "virtually *every plan out there mirrors his |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 02:55 PM Response to Reply #62 |
71. And now for the NRDC's statement of qualified support, ......from the report |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 03:32 PM Response to Reply #71 |
76. I concur completely |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:30 PM Response to Reply #76 |
87. You concur that PHEV use can depending on the power generation fuel mix add to air pollution. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:52 PM Response to Reply #87 |
90. I concur with the NRDC statement when applied properly. |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:38 PM Response to Reply #76 |
88. you concur that the study's assumption that regulatory caps on various pollutants will remain |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 05:55 PM Response to Reply #88 |
91. No I do not agree. |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 07:20 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. How many years till PHEVs achieve a appreciable reduction to GHGs? No answer? Nose in mud? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-24-09 08:47 PM Response to Reply #60 |
63. Ah, he's in the bottle again... |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 01:08 PM Response to Reply #63 |
66. Looking at the graphic provided, how many years is it till they project PHEV & electrics |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. They don't "say" any length of time. |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #68 |
72. Therefore you were bull-shitting readers when you said you posted reports that contradicted what I |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 03:28 PM Response to Reply #72 |
74. Not at all. |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 04:44 PM Response to Reply #74 |
80. All scientific, legitimate data show ethanol is now achieving GHG reductions. But |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 04:59 PM Response to Reply #80 |
82. . |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 03:15 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. Here is the link to the chart you pasted into your reply 61: |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-25-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. Aggregate emissions between now and then is the important measure |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 03:31 PM Response to Reply #75 |
95. The year is 2030, the time period 20 yrs. The GHG reductions for transportation: 16.4% - 26.7% EPRI |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 03:34 PM Response to Reply #95 |
96. . |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-30-09 05:39 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Electric Power Research Institute: GHG reductions from PHEVs : 16.4% - 26.7% by 2030 |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-30-09 05:57 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. . |
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JohnWxy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-23-09 08:50 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. Here is a NREL study, it doesn't say anything about time to deploy any number of PHEVs |
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