Solar sellers slammed

[OKIsItJustMe]

http://www.which.co.uk/about-which/press/press-releases/product-press-releases/which-magazine/2010/04/solar-sellers-slammed.jsp

Solar sellers slammed

25 April 2010

Solar thermal systems offer the promise of free hot water from the sun, but 10 out of 14 installers exaggerated the potential savings in an undercover investigation* by consumer champion Which?

Everest and Ideal Solar Energy potentially broke the law, using dodgy sales tactics and hugely over-stating the potential benefits of installing a solar thermal system. An independent expert calculated such a system would cut about 10 per cent from the Which? household’s annual gas bill, but Ideal Solar Energy quoted savings of 50 per cent, while Everest quoted a 43 per cent cut**. Everest also claimed the home owner would save £35,000 over 20 years, a massive exaggeration***.

Both companies used the classic hard sell tactic of offering huge discounts if the buyer signed up on the day, depriving them of the time needed to make an informed choice****.

Not one of the 14 companies tested identified all the important technical challenges***** before providing a quote, and five provided a quote over the phone without even bothering to visit the property. Just one company, Southern Solar, was found to be helpful and provide sensible advice.

Peter Vicary-Smith, Chief Executive, Which?, says:

“Most of the firms in our investigation behaved like true cowboys - they promised huge savings that bore no relation to reality, and some really piled pressure on the homeowner to sign up immediately or risk losing a one off ‘special offer’.

“The solar industry is too important to our long-term energy needs for things to drag on like this. It needs to clean up its act, and if it won’t, the OFT and the government will have to step in.”

Last year, the OFT received 1,000 complaints about the solar panel industry – far too high for an industry with under 100,000 installations in UK homes******.

Which? is sending its research to the solar trade bodies and the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC). Homeowners wishing to install solar panels can find more information and advice on the Which? website at www.which.co.uk/solar.
Notes to Editor

Mysteries of the solar system appears in the May 2010 issue of Which? magazine. For more information, a copy of the article, or an interview, please contact Judith Adams on 020 7770 7565 or [e-mail]

Undercover footage of firms selling solar thermal systems will be available to view from Sunday 25 April at http://www.which.co.uk/advice/how-to-buy-solar-panels/solar-panel-installation/index.jsp .

*Which? went undercover after seeing a rise in complaints about the solar panel industry. Early in 2010, Which? asked 14 companies to quote for the installation of a solar thermal system at a property in south-east England. All visits were filmed and all calls recorded, then a heating engineer with solar thermal technology expertise was asked to assess them against a checklist of key aspects of industry codes of practice. Which? also asked a senior trading standards officer to check the recordings for misleading claims and hard sell tactics.

**It is an offence for a company to make misleading or false statements that cause consumers to buy products. It is also unlawful to deprive people of the time needed to make an informed choice. The trading standards officer consulted by Which? felt that the precise nature of Everest’s figure made the claim even more misleading as it appeared to have been carefully calculated and would cause consumers to place undue reliance on its accuracy. Ideal Solar Energy misquoted energy regulator Ofgem to talk up savings, claiming 70 per cent of a home’s gas costs go on hot water and 30 per cent on heating, when in fact it is the other way around.

***Which? experts calculated that a typical solar thermal system would cut the total gas bill in the property by about 10 per cent, saving around £55 a year. That’s a pay-back time of 100 years based on current gas prices and the average quote of £5,500 to install a solar thermal system. Everest’s quote of saving £35,000 over 20 years is vastly over-stated. Even if gas prices went up an unlikely 500%, the saving over 20 years would still just be £5,000.

****Everest slashed an already high quote of £11,500 (about three times the lowest quote) to a still high £8,500 if the homeowner signed up to the sale immediately. Ideal Solar Energy dropped its price from £8,690 to £6,520 if the homeowner signed up immediately; they followed up the next day with a phone call offering a new price of £5,860 if the homeowner paid a £400 deposit (which then dropped to £250) the same day.

*****The companies should have: inspected the rear south east facing roof from the ground; inspected the existing gas boiler; inspected the cold water tank in the loft; inspected the hot water cylinder; inspected the water quality (e.g. for limescale issues); and inspected the washing machine and dishwasher to see if they could use solar-heated water. Southern Solar identified most of these challenges and met guidelines for good practice, if not for best practice.

******In the last three years, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), has demanded that three particularly notorious companies – Smart Energy (UK) Ltd, Solar Technik Ltd (not to be confused with an unconnected company of the same name formed on 23 March 2010), which have both gone bust, and Ultimate Energy which has been dissolved – should stop misleading their customers. The OFT received around 1,000 complaints about the sector last year, which Which? thinks is far too high for an industry with under 100,000 installations in UK homes. Holiday insurers, damp-proofers and landlords attracted a similar number of complaints last year, but are used by a much greater number of people in the UK.

In response to the findings:

Everest says: “We’re disappointed that our representative failed to use the sales support documentation provided and made claims he knew to be false. We offer top-quality products and support this with a price promise and a seven day cooling-off period and deposit refund for customers who change their mind.”

Ideal Solar Energy says: “Like all retailers, we offer limited promotions on a selected basis.” Ideal maintain that they tell their agents that no specific details should be given in relation to the reduction in any household energy bills and that they recently introduced a calculation based on a government formula to estimate the performance of a solar thermal system.

[knowbody0]

1. true cowboys?

[OKIsItJustMe]

2. Ayuh

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cowboy

...

3 : one having qualities (as recklessness, aggressiveness, or independence) popularly associated with cowboys: as a : a reckless driver b : a business or businessperson operating in an uncontrolled or unregulated manner

[skids]

3. Long past time to get the con artists out of renewables...

Solar thermal panels and microwind have been way overpriced for way too long.

There are a good number of honest vendors out there, but having these shucksters out
there ruining the reputation of the industry keeps competitive pressures from forcing
consolidation and bringing the best technologies to their rightful place in the market.

Those that do not fall for it are likely to throw up their hands in frustration trying
to find the above-board vendors.

Also, we could use some of this watchdog journalism over here in the U.S. My
inclination is to believe we have less of it these days due to our insanely litigious
tendencies... if the con artist doesn't like being called a con, he sues, and even
if he loses, the media takes a huge hit in legal fees. But that's just my impression,
maybe there's a journo that could tell us what's up with the U.S. watchdog journalism
business.

[kristopher]

4. If you think solar salespeople are bad, you should investigate the claims of the nuclear industry...

[OKIsItJustMe]

5. Oh, I dunno...

A friend was sold a home solar power system recently... In theory at least.

After taking her money (and several other customers') he left the state for Florida.

It's certainly small change compared to a nuclear plant, but this was just outright theft. (You know, as opposed to outrageous cost overruns for example.)

[Barry Johnston]

6. Rogue solar heating trade association.

The solar heating world is so rotten that even the Consumer
Association magazine Which? is prepared to name and praise
(instead of name and shame) a serial false claimer. He claims
that solar heating is "truly zero carbon", even
though it is usually plugged into the mains electric supply
and therefore into a carbon emitting power station in order to
work.

Which? magazine are nevertheless happy to promote his business
- and his alone. Why is this? Perhaps because by being  hair
of the UK's Solar Trade Association he is teflon coated.
Nothing sticks. Read this and you will be outraged.

http://www.solartwin.com/solar-news-24-april-2010-which-magazine-report-on-solar-mis-selling-misses-the-point

If that is not enough, read how his technological cartel also
have their claws into the renewable industry's ethical
Watchdog, the REAL code, who are not prepared to even
investigate his false claims - because lots of his mates make
them too. Read here and be appalled.

http://www.solartwin.com/green-watchdog-refuses-to-bite-lying-mate

The UK Office of Fair Trading OFT refuse to investigate the
solar industry. Is it because there are too many dead
skeletons and live Legionella bacteria around.

Regards, Barry.

[Nihil]

7. Rogue traders in every field

First off, welcome to DU Barry! :hi:

I understand your specific complaint about "zero carbon" as your system
uses a solar-powered electric pump rather than a mains powered one but I'd
like to point out that once the water in the HW tank has been heated, both
systems require mains powered pumps to distribute it around the house ...
It is a selling point for you that should rightly be emphasised in your
adverts but I can see why it was kicked into touch in the context of the
difference in CO2 required between solar *heating* and gas/electric *heating*
of the water.
:shrug:

With regard to the STA, I have also failed to get anywhere with certain
zombie companies that have been active in the South so I can sympathise with
you (and the other honest traders affected).


Could you please provide a little more information on your "Legionella" comments?

Specifically, from your first link:
> FACT – According to UK’s Health Protection Agency, concerning risks from
> hot water, more people are likely to die from Legionella infection than
> from hot water scalding.

I couldn't find anything on this in a quick browse so could you post a link
to such a report? I was wondering if this was due to the lower tank temperatures
found in most (=non-solar) HW systems as they are less likely to have their
thermostat settings higher than about 60C (whereas solar hw systems typically
go to 70C before shutting off and shunting the heat) or whether it was counting
the Legionella risk from A/C units in with the risk from hot water systems?

I had a Thermostatic Mixing Valve fitted last summer due to the scalding risk
(especially for visitors who would be totally unused to anything of that
temperature coming out of the tap) so am happy for the tank to "run hot" now.
I would still like to know how this risk was estimated.

Cheers!

[Barry Johnston]

8. Rogue traders endorsed by Which? magazine.

Thank you for your welcome, Nihil!

Scalding risks of hot water in general depend on several factors including temperature, skin thickness and time, such as the reaction speed of an individual. The Microgeneration Certification Scheme, which takes the lead on specifications for subsidised solar thermal installations, took the decision to limit to 60C the ex-cylinder temeperature, where lower temperature valves (set in the 40’s) are not already at taps and showers. I understand that 60C was taken as a tradeoff temperature between scalding and downstream legionella risks. According to UK’s Health Protection Agency, regarding risks from hot water, more people are likely to die from Legionella infection than from hot water scalding. This evidence came from a meeting I had with HPA last year but I do not yet have it on paper. I met the HPA's John Lee, a Legionella expert who seemed concerned by this fact, one which I had not known before. He showed these figures in a table of statistics. I have asked him for a reference.

On the zero carbon issue I am pleased to see today that the Energy Saving Trust has undertaken to withdraw from their website a false claim on this very issue. Mains pumped solar thermal uses mains electricity. That’s a fact: just as PV pumped does not. In theory, the EST amendment opens the way for the REAL code to investigate the winner of the Which? beauty contest. Amazingly, REAL had been referring to the EST’s credibility as an validation this error. REAL used it as excuse to let them continue making false claims of behalf of the Solar Trade Association. Here is a news link:

http://www.solartwin.com/breaking-news-30-april-2010-energy-saving-trust-admits-false-solar-claim

Regards, Barry.