Rooftop PV, Rooftop water heater, wind, and...

[SHRED]

...localized hydrogen fuel cell energy storage.

Why not?

:shrug:

[n2doc]

1. The US is becoming a third world country with a first world military

Most cannot afford all these things you mention. They can barely afford to keep feeding their families and travel to work. The average American is far poorer than most people realize or acknowledge.

[SHRED]

3. I am talking about a "New Deal" approach

Use new deal type funding for contracting with small business and contractors (job creation).
Limit mega corporation involvement at the install and maintenance levels.
Spread the work around.

---

[CottonBear]

2. Only a very few can afford those things. I own a condo that would not allow it...

even if I could, as an unemployed 99er, afford it.

Georgia Power's electric bills are killing me but there is no other choice than NO electric service. :(

[niyad]

4. these hoa's and their restrictions need to be taken over by those who understand sustainability

[Ready4Change]

7. In many areas HOA cannot legally stop you.

I believe this varies from place to place. Where I live, it is illegal for an HOA to restrict you from installing green energy equipment.

Now, in a condo, where you may not own the roof of the building in which you live, you are likely out of luck.

[CottonBear]

9. Yes, my roof is part of the jointly owned common property of the condominium association. n/t

[SHRED]

5. $4 Billion in our taxes going to oil giants

Wouldn't that cover about 267 thousand rooftops in PV at $15K?

[txlibdem]

6. Best idea yet, and may I add...

How about adding the $50 Billion annual military expense to keep the oil routes open. That's $54 Billion a year.

Now it's more like 1,800,000 roofs (solar costs $30k per roof installed) every year.

In 10 years that would be 18 million roofs.

In 20 years, 36 million.

In 30 years, 54 million.

By 2050, 70 million roofs.

Easy peasy, just cut off a portion of the tax giveaways and military expense freebies to big oil. Let big oil pay for their own private security teams if they want open waterways and unbroken pipelines.

[Nederland]

10. What is the lifespan of a solar panel?

At some point they need to be replaced. I think they have lifespans of around twenty years, don't they?

[kristopher]

11. 30+ years is what NREL uses for a baseline lifespan, but they last longer.

[txlibdem]

12. Solar panels are rated at 80% of their original output at 20 years

They don't have a definite lifetime like a light bulb, as in they do not just quit working one day. They gradually produce less power over the years.

[kristopher]

13. No they aren't, as I said, 30 years is the current benchmark

Solar panel costs 'set to fall'
The cost of installing and owning solar panels will fall even faster than expected according to new research.

Tests show that 90% of existing solar panels last for 30 years, instead of the predicted 20 years.

According to the independent EU Energy Institute, this brings down the lifetime cost.

The institute says the panels are such a good long-term investment that banks should offer mortgages on them like they do on homes.

At a conference, the institute forecast that solar panels would be cost-competitive with energy from the grid for half the homes in Europe by 2020 - without a subsidy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8386460.stm


Or if you want a more academic citation"
The Performance of Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaic Solar Modules after 22 Years of Continuous Outdoor Exposure (2005)

Ewan D. Dunlop and David Halt, 2005."The Performance of Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaic Solar Modules after 22 Years of Continuous Outdoor Exposure",
PROGRESS IN PHOTOVOLTAICS: RESEARCH AND APPLICATIONS, DOI: 10.1002/pip.627
The majority of modules exceeding the level of 92% of Pmax after 20 year, the actual lifetime of these products is significantly more than 20 years.

[txlibdem]

14. You misunderstood my post, I did not say they would fail in 20 years

I wrote that the solar panels will gradually decrease their power output over the years such that, at the 20th year, they will produce 80% of their original power output -- they will continue to work thereafter and continue to gradually decrease their effective energy output. I have read anecdotal evidence of panels lasting a lot longer than 30 years. I guess it just comes down to how much energy you need and at what point do you either add more panels or replace the older ones.

Second, do you have a link for the Dunlop/Halt 2005 study please. I'd like to know if my figures are out of date (it has been a couple of years since I read that 80% figure). If it's up to 92% at 20 years I'd be very glad. Which panels did they study (there is today a great difference in price for solar panels of equal wattage and I wonder if the price coincides with longer lifespan or if it's just more dollars out of your wallet).

[kristopher]

15. I didn't misunderstand your post; it was wrong.

[txlibdem]

16. Well, excuuuuuuuuse. Meeeeeeeeee.

Ha ha. A Steve Martin from the first season of SNL reference.

[txlibdem]

8. You might want to rethink the part about Hydrogen

I presume you would use the solar panels and wind turbines to create electricity and use electrolysis to generate the H2 from water (H2O). It would work, yes, but it takes 3 times the electricity to change it into Hydrogen then back into electricity than to just store it in batteries.

But I like your thinking. Electric Utilities raise their rates periodically and the historic pattern is about 3.78% increase per year. When you buy your own solar panels and wind turbines you are basically locking in today's price for the life of the panels/turbines + batteries.

Reference:
http://www.eia.gov/cneaf/electricity/esr/esr_sum.html
http://assembly.state.ny.us/member_files/044/20070913/