Detroit woman kills alleged purse snatcher

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

DETROIT - A 43-year-old woman shot and killed a suspected purse snatcher who confronted her at a northwest Detroit gas station this morning, according to police.

Two men approached the Detroit woman at about 5:30 a.m. at the Schoolcraft and Southfield Mobil station, Detroit Police spokesman John Roach said. The woman is licensed to legally carry a gun for self-defense, he said.

"They didn't realize she has a CCW (license), so she had a weapon of her own," Roach said. "She fired several rounds at the suspects and they fled."



http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20090925/NEWS01/309250011/1002/NEWS01

[bbinacan]

1. Good for her! n/t

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

2. That's the neighborhood where I grew up!

She'll probably get in trouble if the one who died was shot from the back.....

[stray cat]

3. Sometime crime really doesn't pay - the chosen victim can turn the tables

[katandmoon]

4. Well, my goodness, aren't you thrilled, another shooting!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. Actually I'm always saddened when people choose a life of crime that ends their life prematurely.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. I know it just ruins your day that the robbery was unsuccessful.

[Tim01]

18. Always sad when the criminals lose, huh? nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

34. Hell, you don't even like it when *nobody* gets shot. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x255867#255870

These sort of things seem to upset you.

You know, you really don't HAVE to pitch a nutty when you read these things. You might (for example)
choose not to reply. Or not read them at all.

[triple point]

41. I'm thrilled that a thug won't be attacking any more women, yeah.

Do you think they should get medals..?

[proteus_lives]

44. Well, my goodness, aren't you disappointed, another person defending themselves!

We all now how much you hate that.

[rd_kent]

50. I just LOVE how you hit-and-run with your asinine comments.

Never a follow up. Never an explanation. Just ignorance.

[crim son]

5. Mixed feelings on this one.

If the guy had gotten away with the purse, then captured by the police, tried and found guilty of robbery, would he get the death penalty? It strikes me that the woman was saving her purse, not herself. However I'm sure panic and anger took hold.

[stray cat]

6. I could see the perceived threat level being exceedingly high

IF a couple of guys attack a female there is always an unknown about how violent and dangerous the attackers will be.

[PavePusher]

8. Or perhaps they were threatening deadly force...

and the victim (the woman) legally responded with a proportional level of force. Since the article is notably short on detail, speculating is pretty futile. But hey, feel free to put the victim of crime in the worst possible light.

Sounds like, if the mugger had been smart enough to go to the hospital immediately, he might have lived. But since he was demonstratably stupid enough to rob an armed citizen, well... no-one ever said making a living through crime was going to be risk-free.

[crim son]

15. Like I said, I have mixed feelings but

feel free to put my perspective in the worst possible light. :eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. A woman where my folks live was killed in a purse snatching.

Her arm got caught on the strap and she fell and hit her head. She was 87.

[paulsby]

22. robbery is a crime against person, not against property

that is how every penal code i am aware of classifies it.

if she left her purse on a park bench and guy came up and snatched it, that's a theft - a crime against property.

if she is holding the purse and somebody tries to take it, that's robbery, a crime against persons.

see: model penal code

[crim son]

24. If that's the case then she must have had the right to do what she did,

as it's described in the article. Interesting.

[paulsby]

25. not necessarily

a "simple assault" is a crime against a person, and it doesn't usually justify deadly force.

but the point , as you note, is that crimes against property generally don't ever justify deadly force (note that OCCUPIED AGGRAVATED BURGLARIES ARE ALSO CRIMES AGAINST PERSON not PROPERTY, to eliminate that objection), but crimes against persons often do.

i don't know enough facts of this case to opine whether the shooting was justified.

[Euromutt]

35. Sure, and that justifies use of countervailing force...

...but unless there's reasonable perception of imminent threat to life or limb, you're nt justified in using lethal force.

That said, reading the article, I get the impression the term "purse snatcher" is less than appropriate for this situation.

A 43-year-old woman shot and killed a suspected purse snatcher who confronted her at a northwest Detroit gas station this morning, according to police.

In my book, a purse snatcher doesn't confront his victims; he approaches unnoticed, grabs the purse (or camera, iPod, cell phone, whatever) from the victim and runs like hell.

"They didn't realize she has a CCW (license), so she had a weapon of her own," Roach said.

"Of her own"? That phrasing implies the "purse snatchers" were armed, which alters this whole situation from a purse snatching to an armed robbery complete with credible threat to life or limb. In which case she would have been fully justified using her gun.

[paulsby]

37. i didn't say it did

read what i wrote. i said it was s crime against person. that's all. i was making that point in reference to somebody else referencing her protecting her "property"

i also said that i don't know enough about the incident in question to determine if deadly force was or wasn't justified.

i'm not into trying to read into media reports. they almost always suck, and there simply isn't enough info released probably, even if they were competent enough to write it.

[stray cat]

39. so if someone rapes you - you still can't use lethal force unless threatened with death

definitely not true. If someone is using force against me my perception will be that they don't have my best interests at heart and I have a right to defend myself. I don't have to wait for them to get the upper hand.

[Euromutt]

43. Rape involves a threat to life or limb

In the case of rape, there is a clearly understood threat that the rapist will inflict grievous bodily harm on his victim if she does not cooperate; that threat justifies lethal force.

[rd_kent]

52. ANd when someone threatens your life for your purse, its not the same thing?

[John Williams]

27. Who said it was just gonna be a robbery?

For all we know, it could have easily turned into a kidnapping/rape scenario. I think the purse was the least of her worries.

[Euromutt]

36. There are elements in the article that lead me to think the term "purse snatcher" is inappropriate

Says two guys "confronted" the woman. In my book, purse snatchers don't confront you; they approach unnoticed, grab your purse/iPod/iPhone/whatever and run like hell. No confrontation, and not two guys.

Then the police spokesman said the woman had "a weapon of her own." That phrasing (italics mine) implies that at least one of the two men was armed, and that would make this a mugging rather than a purse snatching. In which case, she would have been entirely justified in using lethal force.

[stray cat]

38. Purse snatcher did not seem an appropriate term and they may have run because of the gun

do some really think she should have waited until after they physically harmed her just in case they didn't.? :sarcasm:

[gorfle]

47. I have no sympathy.

If the guy had gotten away with the purse, then captured by the police, tried and found guilty of robbery, would he get the death penalty? It strikes me that the woman was saving her purse, not herself. However I'm sure panic and anger took hold.

If the criminal values his life more than a purse then he should not engage in activities that would put his life at risk for such a low price. Obviously this criminal did not place much value on his life or he would have made a different decision for his course of action.

I dismiss the argument that no one's life is worth a purse. That purse, and everything in it, represents pieces of that woman's life that she exchanged to acquire them. Those pieces are gone, and can never be replaced. Stealing that woman's property is stealing irreplaceable pieces of her life. I would not exchange one minute of my life for some common thug, let alone the countless hours that the property in her purse and the purse probably cost her to acquire.

[rd_kent]

51. Always basing your opinion on the value of what was being stolen.

Never a moments thought at the value of the life that was in danger because someone chose a life of crime. Such a pity.

[panader0]

7. So she shot and killed him while he was running away?

[PavePusher]

9. Reading comprehension is key.

"She fired several rounds at the suspects and they fled."

I.E., they ran AFTER the shooting occured...

[panader0]

12. You are correct. I saw "as they fled"

My dial-up is so slow that don't always go to links, it takes too long. Can't do videos either. Love living way out in the country, but there are downsides.

[PavePusher]

16. Oops, O.K. My apologies for the hostile tone.

I get the same thing when I'm on leave at my grandmother's house (rural N.H.).

[ManiacJoe]

10. Not according to that article.

The news report says she fired the shots *then* they ran away. Granted, that article is so lacking on details that it borders on useless...

[safeinOhio]

14. News papers screw up more than a bono chimp on his back.

That's why we have courts and trials.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. You think this is going to trial?

[safeinOhio]

40. May, may not. Don't have the facts, only newspaper account.

[slackmaster]

19. Fuck thieves

K&R

:kick:

[Jim Sagle]

21. Guess that lowdown sidewinder got his just desserts, haw haw haw.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. It certainly shouldn't have been unexpected.

[jgraz]

26. And his partner learns a valuable lesson.

Next time, attack from behind. You get money AND a shiny new gun.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. Or maybe he'll turn over a new leaf and stop victimizing honest citizens.

[jgraz]

30. And maybe rainbows and puppies will fly out of my ass

You really need to make up your "mind", Dave. Are criminals irretrievable sociopaths who just need to be put down, or are they sensible but misguided human beings who just need one little "lesson" to straighten out their lives?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. I think prison will be more than one little lesson.

Robbery and murder convictions should give him plenty of time to think about his choices in life. You'll have to remind me where I said all criminals were irretrievable sociopaths who just need to be put down. I'll be waiting, well not really since I have never made a statement like that.

[TheWraith]

32. If someone's in the middle of committing a crime, giving them the benefit of the doubt is impossible

That's why when the police corner a criminal with a gun, if it looks like he's making a move, they'll take the shot. It doesn't matter if he did something deserving of death or not. That's why we have self defense laws that are predicated on the threat of bodily harm, rather than it's knowledge, because there are times when judgements are impossible to make.

Now if some kid from the city whose mother works 60 hours a week to feed him decides that purse snatching is an easy way to make some pocket change, and gets the shit scared out of him by a middle aged woman with a gun, all the better should he decide that it's not the life for him. I wish more people in that position did. But the very same desperation that makes somebody start grabbing purses, or selling crack, can lead them to do stupider things as well--like knifing somebody to death over the $100 in their wallet.

Either way, it's a tragedy. I don't think anyone grows up wanting to be a purse snatcher, or a drug dealer, and the fact that they're in that situation--either from desperation or the lack of proper guidence--is a failure of our society. But if we're going to be rolling the dice when it comes to crime, I'd always rather the would-be victim come out on top. Whatever you can say about the attacker's chances for redemption, the victim did absolutely NOTHING to merit the chance of dying.

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. I see your stock in trade has been reduced to insults and personal slurs

I realize your employers at the Joyce Foundation are having a hard time of it lately, but they really could
do better than you.

If I was paying someone to consult and lobby for me on a large political site, I would expect better research skills than you've demonstrated here at the Guns forum. One other regular here, for example, has research skills you could only dream of, but like you they let their loathing of gun owners take over their keyboard.

There was one guy who recently looked promising, but he made the mistake of contradicting himself within hours
on another forum and got called on it.

Somebody better might come along, and when they do:

No mas consulting gig for you!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. Why do you have such a problem with innocent people defending themselves?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

45. So the woman should have let herself be robbed?

Maybe beaten, raped, killed?

Hopefully his partner catches a bullet next time.

[JonQ]

42. Excellent

I hope to see more of these stories as CCWs become more common.

Now we just need to work on producing more ammo to keep up with demand.

[proteus_lives]

46. Good for her!

She defended herself.

[The Green Manalishi]

48. The only *good* robber, rapist or thug

is one expiring from a gaping chest wound.

[RamboLiberal]

49. According to this report he threatened to shoot her

A woman in her 40s was pumping gas when she was approached by a man who demanded her purse and said if she didn't comply, he'd shoot her.

After the suspect snatched the purse, the woman, who has a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon, shot several rounds at the suspect who fled on foot, Bell said.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090926/METRO01/909260322/1410/METRO01/Detroit-woman-turns-gun-on-purse-snatcher

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

54. Kick.

[Hoopla Phil]

55. Purse stealing is not worth your life. Don't do it.