An AK 47

[Treo]

Say what you will that is a fully auto AK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAhKGlh1OEY&feature=rec-HM-r2

And he damn sure did NOT buy that at a gun show
ETA
The point of this post is that I've heard a lot of people say that only two automatic weapons have ever been used in crime since 1934. The fact is that the bangers do have automatic weapons we're just not hearing about it.

[ovidsen]

1. I'll say what I will.

Judging by the rate of fire, I'd say that is a (legal) AK-47 semiautomatic, which fires as fast as you can pull the trigger.

Heck, even at my age, I can pull a trigger that fast.

BTW, I am not in favor of "legal" assault weapons.

[cliffordu]

2. Yep - you are right.

Autos fire a lot faster than that.

[krispos42]

3. No, that's a semi-auto

I've pulled the trigger of a semiauto .22 about that fast.

10 rounds a second is what a full-auto AK fires. That wasn't near fast enough, maybe 3 rounds a second.

[Treo]

4. IDK It sounded full auto to me

But I've never had an AK shot at me.
ETA FWIW I think law abiding citizens should be able to own select fire rifles. ( By own I Mean walk into Wal Mart and buy)

[Hangingon]

17. It is a semi.

I have heard a full auto AK.

[Treo]

5. I stand corrected

This is definetely full auto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bS0gyy7lc&feature=related

Mods feel free to lock this one up or delete it

[ovidsen]

6. One assertion you make is certainly correct.

From what I know, converting a semi-auto AK-47 into a full auto version doesn't take much outside of access to a decent tool and die shop. I'd bet the farm that a lot more than 2 full-auto weapons have been used in crimes in the US since 1934.

[benEzra]

8. AFAIK, you'd also need access to a full-auto bolt carrier group and trigger pack

and would need to do some machining in the receiver, at least on most post-'86 civilian AK's. Pre-'86s may have been easier to convert, I'm not sure, but the Hughes Amendment to the McClure-Volkmer Act of '86 required new civilian semiautos to be difficult to convert.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. With a good tool and die shop you can make a complete gun from raw steel. N/T

[Hoopla Phil]

11. I believe the "only two" stat is actually "only two legally owned and registered" full auto's

used in crime. I know of one that was a cop that murdered a guy with a full auto. It was a messed up deal regarding two families that had been feuding for a long time.

That was, and is, a famous case because the family of the victim filed suit against the sheriff for signing off on the Form 4 to purchase the full auto. The courts held that the sheriff had no liability for any future mis-use of the weapon. IIRC it is Cercy v Ferguson.

[Taitertots]

16. I'm so tired of people saying how easy it is to make an automatic rifle

when they have absolutely no idea how to do it.

Don't you see how ignorant that makes you look. Especially after its have been shot down hundreds of times on DU.

[Treo]

18. Define easy

I worked as a machinist for 8 years I bet you I could produce a fully automatic weapon in a day or two given the plans. I might run a few scrap before I got it perfect but I could do it.

[Taitertots]

26. Using $30,000 worth in machine tools at least

How easy is something that requires a decade of experience and a small fortune in machine tools?

[Treo]

28. I agree

You're not going to do it in your garage ( BTW a good HAAS machine will set you back a couple of hundred thou) But in a machine shop "parts is parts" I wouldn't have any more difficulty making the automatic firing mechanism than I would making a fuel pump or a firing pin or an ejection seat bolt or a titanium femoral nail (all parts I've made). I think it would be expensive as hell to do it as a one off piece. but I could do it.

My point is that it isn't voodoo. It's just basic machine shop practice. I worked in a shop where our lead made a revolver just to see if he could

[Taitertots]

42. Of course it is possible

I'm just saying it is far from easy.

You need prohibitively expensive machinery, years of machine shop experience, and information which is not available.

[scrinmaster]

19. With a machine shop, you could make an open bolt SMG, like a STEN, from scratch.

And it's two legally owned full autos that have been used in crimes.

[Treo]

20. There's a special kind of lathe that they use to make the Barrel

You'd need one of those

[PavePusher]

21. No-one needs one of those evil rifled barrels!!

Don't you know the 2nd Amendment only covers smooth-bores? You're so 21rst Century...

[gorfle]

22. Not really neccessary.

Yes, if you want to make a rifled barrel you will need machinery capable of cutting rifling, but I have downloaded plans from the internet to make a STEN sub machinegun with nothing more than pipe and sheet metal. It will not be terribly accurate but certainly deadly at close range.

[Hoopla Phil]

24. Link to the four different ways to "cut" rifling into a barrel. The home builder can

make and use a button fairly easily. The four types are

Broaching - what you referenced

Button - a hardened plug is forced through the barrel to cut the grooves

Hammer Forged - a rod with the rifling in reverse is inserted into the barrel and the outside of the barrel is beaten to imprint the grooves inside

Electrochemical - (the new process) this is a wet process that uses electrodes to eat away the barrel to form the grooves.


http://www.firearmsid.com/A_bulletIDrifling.htm

[Treo]

35. You skipped a step

Before you can cut rifling into a barrel tyou have to bore it out and that means you have to get cooolant in and chips out and it has to be a DAMN straight cut. There is a special type of lathe for that not found in just any shop

[Euromutt]

37. Or you can buy a barrel blank, surely?

What's to stop you from buying a .30-cal barrel blank with the appropriate twist, and machining it to fit your home-made receiver?

[Treo]

38. That's kinda my point

I said earlier it's not voodooo (well maybe the programing is) any reasonably compatent machinst could turn out a select fire rifle

[Euromutt]

33. That was the whole point of the Sten's design

The Sten was specifically designed to be simple enough to make in comparatively simple machine shops, precisely so that it could continue to be made if the Luftwaffe managed to knock out the main British armament plants.

Hell, during the Politionele acties ("police actions") in the Dutch East Indies in the late 1940s, the Indonesian nationalists were making crude Sten knockoffs (and given how crude the Sten Mks. II and III were to begin with, that's saying something) in bicycle repair shops.

[Endangered Specie]

30. Youd also need to be a skilled machinist... basically, if you could convert

a semi-auto anything into a full auto weapon, you could BUILD your own submachine gun,

open bolt
slam fire
pistol cartridge

By far the easiest weapon design to make from scratch (aside from a single shot).

[benEzra]

7. The qualifier is two *lawfully owned* automatic weapons since 1934,

one of which owned by a crooked police officer doing contract hits on the side. Although the number may now be three, since that shooting a few years ago in Montana or Idaho.

Since Central America is awash in full-auto AK's (relics of Cold War proxy wars), and since that's where most U.S. drug smuggling comes from, it is not surprising to me that some actual (and highly illegal) military AK's would find their way into the USA. But as you state, these have absolutely nothing to do with the civilian gun market, and everything to do with the War on Non-Approved Herbs.

[Hoopla Phil]

12. Correct. I remember the cop incident differently though.

I'm remembering it as a cop that murdered just one guy in Florida with a full auto. As I recall it was two families that had been feuding for a long time.

I remember that as a very famous case because the family of the victim filed suit against the sheriff for signing off on the Form 4. The courts held that the sheriff had no liability for any future mis-use of the weapon. IIRC it is Cercy v Ferguson.

[benEzra]

13. You are probably right.

I never actually heard any of the specifics; I was under the impression it occurred many years ago.

[X_Digger]

10. Compare to this clip..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30 -- watch at 3:55

This is a full auto.

That (OP) is a semi-auto being fired as fast as he can pull the trigger.

[BoWanZi]

14. That is a semi auto being fired as quick as possible. NOT full auto. (n/t)

[derby378]

15. Sounds like a foley editor played with the audio track, too

Even if she just amplified the gunshots, though, that's clearly a semi-auto, not an NFA weapon.

[gorfle]

23. Incorrect on both counts.

Say what you will that is a fully auto AK

As you have already seen by others, the AK-47 in the video you linked to is a civilian variant and is only capable of semi-automatic fire. You can tell this from the video by the much slower rate of fire and the erratic rate of fire. This weapon, like any semi-automatic weapon, fires as fast as you can pull the trigger.

The fact is that the bangers do have automatic weapons we're just not hearing about it.

It is unlikely that there is some conspiracy to cover up weapons used in crimes. The FBI has been collecting crime statistics, including weapons used in committing them, for some time, and the data is readily available to the public and has been posted here numerous times.

Fully-automatic weapons are hardly ever used in crime because they cost a minimum of $10,000 a copy to buy them, due to scarcity. An M16 that would have cost $1000 in 1985 will cost you in excess of $20,000 today. For the price of one M16 you could buy about 30 civilian semi-automatic AK-47s.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

25. Semiauto, ROF is too slow. He's only shooting about 300rpm I'd guess

[Xenotime]

27. Wow. That is so terrifying.

[Treo]

29. I AM AWARE THAT I WAS WRONG

I went back and found a video of a GI shooting a full auto AK and compared the sounds and have previously acknowledged my mistake.

I still think that there a a HELL of a lot more select fire rifles in this country than we think there are.

And I still think I should be able buy one at wal Mart if I want

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Not that many. The police hardly ever recover them.

Usually they are weapons smuggled in, and in VERY rare cases, modified weapons, never having been added to the NFA registry.

[Euromutt]

36. The North Hollywood bank robbery was committed using illegally modified rifles, IIRC

Mind you, the robbers didn't manage to kill anybody (fortunately).

[Hoopla Phil]

39. Actually, one of them was traced back to the Mexican army.

[fireonthemountain]

32. 100% sure it's semi auto.

It does not have the magazine dimples so it's a WASR 10 which only comes in semi. It also does not have the 3rd pin which means it cant be full auto regardless.

[benEzra]

34. That video also shows just how useless

the "pull the trigger fast and hope you hit something" mode portrayed in the movies is in real life.

BTW, did anybody notice that the rifle in the introduction, when the voiceover is talking about a "loaded AK-47," is an SKS with the bayonet removed, even though the carbine the criminal was using was a WASR? Guess the reporters didn't know the difference...

[Caliman73]

41. I don't think they care.

They typically want to show the scariest photos possible, use the most sensational language and get you to watch the horror. I don't want to demean the danger that is posed by stupid criminals that run from and shoot at police, but the media is not in business to inform the public anymore, if ever. They are in the business of making business. Money not fact rules the reporting process.

[Howzit]

40. Here is a video of a full-auto AK47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c

The one in your video was semi-auto, not that it makes any difference - motivated criminal intent trumps type of tool used.

The officer hit the perp 3 times by actually aiming at him with a semi-auto handgun - don't need to spray up the countryside and hope you hit something when you use proper technique.