Police detective in California makes joking comment that people carrying openly...

[spin]

should be shot.

Facebook Comment Stirs 'Open Carry' Debate
Updated: 7:53 pm PST February 9, 2010

EAST PALO ALTO, Calif. -- A controversy was brewing in East Palo Alto Tuesday night after a police detective made apparently joking comments through his Facebook account saying “open carry” advocates who visibly carry guns in public should be shot.

***snip***

Area resident Adnan Shahab is an “open carry” advocate who frequently goes out in public displaying an unloaded gun on his belt. Such activity is legal in California with certain restrictions, such as staying clear of schools.

Shahab said he was offended by Facebook remarks posted by East Palo Alto detective Rod Tuason. Tuason published a comment that said he agreed with a friend that open carry advocates should come to Oakland, Richmond and East Palo Alto and -- in an apparent joke -- said officers should shoot the advocates.

"So it's a little shocking and disappointing to hear that a sworn officer is basically so cavalier with violating a person's second amendment rights and basically putting a bullet in them for doing absolutely nothing wrong," said Shahab.

East Palo Alto police were investigating whether the remarks violate department policies.

Police also point out the remarks were made in a personal, private web page and were only made public by a blogger.

***snip***

Adnan Shahab said he believes the fact the comments came from a facebook exchange made the remarks and any perceived threat more credible.

"Quite honestly I feel a little unsafe going to East Palo Alto right now," explained Shahab.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/22516072/detail.html

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Facebook?

Bipartisan FAIL.

--d!

[slackmaster]

2. His behavior was emboldened by hate groups like the Brady Campaign

They want to deprive everyone who isn't a government employee of their civil rights.

[Bold Lib]

7. I believe that your are correct about that.

[spin]

36. Government employees work for the man...

Only allowing government employees to carry and own firearms makes sure that "those people" don't get out of control.

[Arctic Dave]

3. They shouldn't be shot, just shot first when bullets start fly.

If you don't know who is shooting, shoot the person with a gun showing. :)

[Merchant Marine]

4. Yeah man,

because that unloaded gun in a retention holster on your belt is definitely the source of that gunfire, right?

[cowman]

5. OMFG

are you serious?

[Arctic Dave]

14. Cop gets called to a shooting incident, guess who is most likly to get a cap in their ass

if they don't stop, drop and spread in a manner in which the cop doesn't feel threatened, other then the actual shooter.

[cowman]

19. That's not what

the detective said he said open carry advocates should be shot. That's alot different than a police officer arriving on the scene of a shooting. Those of us who do carry know damn well that if we are involved in a shooting that we need to identify ourselves and we would have already placed our weapon on the ground and ourselves on the ground in a non threatning manner so your argument holds no water

[Arctic Dave]

20. And that has nothing to do with either of my post. Keep up.

[cowman]

22. And the OP

was about a cop saying that open carry advocates who carry should be shot. You try to keep up. Dont you find that just a bit disturbing even if he says he was joking?

[carla]

33. Not so offensive.

I would be offended if he said "liberal open carry advocates should be shot". :sarcasm:

[Tim01]

9. I would also like to know how serious you are. nt

[Arctic Dave]

15. See #14

[Tim01]

17. Cops will shoot the guy with the gun. Got it. nt

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arctic Dave]

16. You? We? I don't even know what you are refering to.

Are feeling a bit of the victim?

[SteveM]

28. It seems, Mr. Arctic Dave, that you kind of want this to happen...

I mean, it's just people with guns and you want them to get some of "their" own medicine, is that it? Please explain. I see this "You? We?" business, which would suggest a kind of inky squid-squirt of argumentative escape, but to any reasonable person, you seem to be advocating what the officer said.

All you have to do is confirm or deny, but "You? We? I don't even know what you are refering to" is a little yellow.

[spin]

6. People with unloaded guns...bad. Cops with loaded guns...good.

Especially those cops who joke about shooting people.

[Bold Lib]

8. And if you don't believe it you will be made to believe it. . . .

or shot.

[sharesunited]

10. Why does open carry in CA come with the condition that you can't go near schools?

[Merchant Marine]

11. All K-12 schools in california have a 1,000 ft. "gun free zone" around them

You can, however carry legally with a California CCW or if your firearm is unloaded and in a locked case.

You can also carry on your property, but if you step over your property line it's an instant felony.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.9.html

[cowman]

12. This why

I love living in NV. We can open carry just about anywhere unless otherwise posted. Where I live we can carry in our local markets and we are welcomed in, plus here in Nye County we don't register our guns

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cowman]

25. As a matter

of fact I do. What business is it of yours?

[sharesunited]

26. OK, I understand now.

[ManiacJoe]

29. How does that 1000 foot rule

stand when the federal version was tossed out as unconstitutional? (Fed vs State laws?)

[rusty_rebar]

44. The federal version was tossed out

because congress had no authority to enact it.

The State does not have the same restrictions on what laws they can enact within the boarders of the state.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. Stupid politicians mostly (I realize that is a redundant statement)

[PavePusher]

21. Isn't it obvious?

A gun carrier 999 feet from a school is incredibly dangerous, and likely to kill dozens of children if the wind shifts to quickly.

A gun carrier 1001 feet from a school is a peaceful law-abiding Citizen calmly exercising a Civil Right under the protection of the Constitution.


Must I? Oh, O.K..... :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[sharesunited]

23. You mean it is just a thin veneer of sanity papering over a total cave-in to the NRA?

[cowman]

27. Jeez I

can't even keep up with your sense of logic

[NewMoonTherian]

32. More a cave-in...

to litigious basketcases, like most zero-tolerance policies are.

[PavePusher]

34. "School Zones" so far seem to be places where one can not exercise...

the First, Second, Fourth and Fifth Amendments of the COnstitution. They don't even seem to teach them any more. Got any other restrictions you want?

[Euromutt]

30. If this doesn't "violate department policies," the policies need rewriting

There is absolutely no excuse for an agent of the state even joking about shooting someone for engaging in an activity that isn't illegal. If a police officer were to make some crack about shooting people wearing, say, a pro-choice t-shirt, I don't anyone would be particularly sanguine about it. The fact that he made it in private is hardly a mitigating circumstance; if anything, it's an indication he knew damn well that what he was saying was beyond the pale.

[spin]

41. I know one police officer who did get a reprimand ...

for posting comments on a case involving a drug shooting. The officer was upset because the community wasn't helping the police to solve the case.

[proteus_lives]

31. What a stupid prick.

Rod Tuason should be slow-roasted in the court of public opinion for this.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. Per the Skinner/Krispos announcement, penis references are no longer allowed inthe guns subforum.

prick... lol j/k
:silly: :rofl:

:hide:

[farmout rightarm]

38. Oh...,he meant it in the biblical sense

PRICK

prik: As a noun (= any slender pointed thing, a thorn, a sting) it translates two words: (1) sekh, a "thorn" or "prickle." Only in Nu 33:55, "those that ye let remain of them be as pricks in your eyes," i.e. "shall be a source of painful trouble to you." (2) kentron "an iron goad" for urging on oxen and other beasts of burden: "It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" (the King James Version of Acts 9:5, where the Revised Version (British and American) omits the whole phrase, following the best manuscripts, including Codices Sinaiticus, A, B, C, E; the King James Version of Acts 26:14, where the Revised Version (British and American) has "goad," margin "Greek: `goads' "), i.e. to offer vain and perilous resistance. See GOAD. As a verb (= "to pierce with something sharply pointed," "to sting"), it occurs once in its literal sense: "a pricking brier" (Ezek 28:24); and twice in a figurative sense: "I was pricked in my heart" (Ps 73:21); "They were pricked in their heart" (Acts 2:37, katanusso, Vulgate (Jerome's Latin Bible, 390-405 A.D.) compungo; compare English word "compunction").
D. Miall Edwards


:rofl:

[spin]

37. UPDATE on story ...

While residents who carry unloaded, registered guns in plain view aren't breaking any laws, police have said the practice is dangerous because officers can't tell whether a gun is loaded and what an armed person's intentions are.

Tuason didn't return a phone message seeking comment Monday. But East Palo Alto police Capt. Carl Estelle said the department's professional standards division is looking into the Facebook remarks to see if they violate any rules or policies.

Detective Rod Tuason apparently made the remarks in response to a friend's status update, which joked that gun advocates who carry unloaded weapons in plain view as a political statement should start doing so in places such as Oakland, Richmond and East Palo Alto "and not limit themselves to hoity toity cities."

"Haha, we had one guy last week try to do it!" Tuason replied, referring to a Redwood City man who strolled into the Mi Pueblo Food Center in East Palo Alto on Jan. 27 with a gun on his hip. "He got proned out and reminded where he was at and that turds will jack him for his gun in a heartbeat!"

After several more comments in the thread, Tuason apparently joked that officers should shoot the advocates, who have made recent headlines throughout the Bay Area for sipping coffee at cafes and performing other everyday acts with visible weapons.

"Sounds like you had someone practicing their 2nd amendment rights last night!" Tuason wrote. "Should've pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them makes a furtive movement ... 2 weeks off!!!"

***snip***

"We have to be careful because they're on his own personal private Web page," Estelle said. "We have to be careful not to violate his First Amendment rights."

The department hasn't taken action against Tuason, and the detective was working in uniform Monday, he said.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14361484?nclick_check=1 emphasis added

I know a lot of cops and ex-cops and I understand cop humor. There's a time and a place for such humor but Facebook may not qualify.

The police dept is taking a risk here. If some individual is merely exercising his rights and is injured by a police officer, the city may find itself in a very nasty lawsuit.

[Euromutt]

39. This goes beyond humor

Frankly, I find the attitude exhibited by Det. Tuason that it is not merely permissible but indeed desirable to "prone out" at rifle-point members of the public engaged in perfectly legal activity to be reprehensible. It smacks of harassment, and as a member of the public, this is not an attitude I want to see tolerated in those who are supposed "to protect and serve" us.

I don't begrudge Det. Tuason his right to freedom of speech. On the contrary, I'd like him and other cops like him to speak their minds at every opportunity, so that we know who needs to have his badge taken away at the earliest opportunity, along with the power to shoot people without being held personally responsible, before they actually do shoot someone.

[spin]

40. It almost sounds like this cop is a thug ...

in a uniform.

I know a few retired police in one Florida city who have a low opinion of the current generation of officers. One retired cop called the current force in his fairly large city a bunch of gorillas.

But the job changed a lot in the last 30 years. It's hard to find someone who wants to take the risk of being a police officer today for the pay offered.

The active police officers that I know in the rural area of Florida where I live all seem to be very dedicated and fair.

[Merchant Marine]

42. Jeez, they felony-stopped the guy?

Without probable cause all officers are supposed to do in Cali is engage you in conversation and ask if they can run the serial number on your gun.

[spin]

43. Info from California Open Carry web site ...

How can I prepare to OC, what can I expect, and what are the risks?

Open Carry in California is still quite uncommon. This means that people who notice that you are carrying (and most won’t even notice) may be surprised, unsettled, or interested and inquisitive. Be polite, friendly, and if you like, share with them that, yes, it is legal to carry this way in California.

You may also have encounters with law enforcement officers. You must be prepared for this. Know all the laws. Carry the flyers and memos with you. Many Open Carriers carry personal voice recorders to record their police encounters. You may be detained. You legally must allow police officers to inspect your firearm to ensure that it is unloaded (where applicable per 12031). You may even be arrested. This shouldn’t happen if you follow all the laws, but from many of the experiences shared on the OpenCarry.org forums, it appears that many police officers do not know or do not understand the law. Remain patient, and if you can, share with them what you know. If however you are placed under arrest, immediately stop talking.

If you are unwilling to accept this risk of false arrest, or are unable to bear the significant financial burden for your legal defense, then don't Open Carry in California.

You also must be sure not to OC where firearms are not allowed, like "school zones" or government buildings. Carry a 12026.1 compliant locking case in your vehicle to store your handgun in when necessary.
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

Info from a Sacramento Police Department Memo on Open Carry:

PC 12031(e), in order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

***snip***

Scenario: a person is walking down the street with an unloaded pistol carried openly on their belt. There is a loaded magazine for the pistol located next to the pistol in a magazine pouch. You run the pistol through the automated firearm system and there is no dealer record of sale. ** NOT a violation of PC 12025 or PC 12031.

Scenario: a person is walking down the street with a shotgun (18 inch barrel) under their coat. **NOT a 12025 violation.

Scenario: a person walking down the street has a pistol worn openly on their belt with a loaded magazine inserted into the pistol, but no round in the chamber. You run the firearm and there is a dealer record of sale to the suspect. Suspect has no criminal history. **misdemeanor violation of PC 12031. Note: If there is no dealer record of sale for the firearm or the dealer record of sale is not in the suspect's name the charge can be elevated to a felony PC 12031(a)(2)(f).

Remember that in any scenario PC 12031(e) gives you the authority to detain the person so you can inspect the firearm perPC 12031(e). Unless you develop additional probable cause, the length of the detention will be limited to the time required to inspect the firearm.

** With the exception of assault weapons, there is no law that requires a handgun or long gun to be registered with the California Department of Justice emphasis added
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/memos/SPD_oc_memo.pdf

[PavePusher]

47. Not quite...

They are NOT supposed to run the serial number. PC 12031(e) (commonly known as an E-check) is supposed to allow only inspection for loaded condition. If they have RAS that something illegal is going on, then they may expand the scope of the investigation (i.e., if the gun were loaded and the bearer did not have a CPL/CCW/whatever-Cali-calls-it-this-week).

You can find the particulars at calguns.net and opencarry.org.

[aliendroid]

45. has he been fired?

Is this cop still employed? He's talking about wanting to shoot law abiding citizens.

Remember people, cops are not elected and they should not have any authority over you in any way unless you are breaking a law.

[spin]

46. If I ran the police department or were the city mayor ...

I wouldn't want this fool on the street.

If he does ever shoot someone, his Facebook could show up in a lawsuit against the city. It wouldn't really matter if the person was openly carrying or not. By his posting, he just revealed that he is a cop looking for an excuse to be a shooter.

I wouldn't want "Dirty Harry" or "Quick Draw McGraw" on my force.

The guy could go get a job as a security guard where many "wanna be" cops work. He should fit right in.