Supreme Court ruling underscores need for more firearms education

[victoryparty]

Guns are a fact of life, like them or not, so it stands to reason that if more people who followed responsible gun ownership practices, there would be fewer gun-related accidents and homicides.

Please see
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6184973-americas-youth-deserve-a-better-shot-at-firearms-education
for the full column.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

1. So I'm proud to live in a country where people think they

need a gun to walk the streets or go to a park, yeah real proud.

[hlthe2b]

3. So when do plastic surgeons start implanting us with holsters?

and gun manufacturers creating the ultimate shower-proof and swimming pool-proof handgun? Surely we must make plans to NEVER be without one...

:crazy:

Why is it an all or nothing situation? I'm not against gun ownership, but can there be NO limits? **sigh**

[SteveM]

36. The "all or nothing situation" is promoted by many gun-controllers here...

Please note the number of posts which say "Arm children, arm criminals, pass out guns to everyone", etc.

There are already limits on the possession and use of firearms; kids under 21 can't purchase handguns, criminals cannot purchase or legally own firearms, and no one is passing 'em out. If you wish to place further "limits" on firearms, please state what they are and how they will solve or mitigate societal ills.

[oneshooter]

42. Glock n/t

[spin]

28. O.K. do those few who legally carry concealed present a problem?

Florida publishes a monthly report on concealed carry at:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html

In Florida over a twenty two year plus period from October 1, 1987 - May 31, 2010:

1,787,628 licenses have been issued.

729,103 licenses are currently valid.

Only 167 licenses have been revoked for a crime involving the use of a firearm after the license was issued.

[Abq_Sarah]

29. I'm proud to live in a country

Where government is formed to protect freedoms.

[proteus_lives]

32. I'm proud to live in a country where people have the choice to own/carry a firearm.

Yeah, real proud.

You should be too.

[GreenStormCloud]

33. I am proud to live in a coutry where the government trusts its citizens with guns. N/T

[villager]

2. Yes, if only murderers re-read their manuals before killing their families,

spouses, or former co-workers!

[one-eyed fat man]

39. You forgot the children!

Susan Smith strap them into car seats and drive into a lake.

Andrea Yates drown them in the bathtub.

Darlie Router stab them.

Dena Schlosser hack off their arms and legs.

and the loving, nurturing, mothers, who killed them without firing a shot.

[jaxx]

4. Guns aren't a fact in my life.

Besides that, to hear it told every gun carrier is a 'responsible' owner. It's the little kids who find the gun and shoot their siblings who aren't responsible?

[hlthe2b]

5. Seems our country is full of careless, irresponsible toddlers!

How can that be? **sigh**

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

13. oh, my!

:rofl:

(personally, I always thought the dishwasher, the filthy little buggers...;) )

On edit, the post to which I was replying was joking about an unfortunate grammatical (subject line) faux pas in another thread.... Although I guess this explanation just serves to leave you more confused...

[slackmaster]

22. I worked as a professional proofreader for several years

I can't help myself when I see an ambiguous or misplaced modifier.

[SteveM]

37. Have you read the NSC data on deaths-by-gun of "careless, irresponsible toddlers?"

The death rates are falling, and have been falling for years. Kids are much more likely to be electrocuted, die in falls, or drown accidentally in their homes than to be killed by picking up a gun.

Look up the National Safety Council's info. on this. (The NSC is not a right-wing source, either.)

[slackmaster]

7. Your choice to not own guns will not prevent children from encountering ones that are not secured

Educating adults about the importance of securing guns is a good thing, so is teaching kids what to do and what not to do when an adult gun owner fails to act responsibly.

[jaxx]

12. Supposedly all owners with permits are educated.

Kids still find guns. Where is the law that says the owner is responsible for that gun and who picks it up and shoots someone with it? Maybe if they knew they'd go to jail for murder they wouldn't be so quick to want them around the house.

[slackmaster]

15. The kind of law you are asking about is generally called Child Access Prevention or CAP

Where is the law that says the owner is responsible for that gun and who picks it up and shoots someone with it?

We have one here in California. It's rarely enforced, because children and teens who get shot are most often shot with their own dumbass parents' guns.

Gun safety education works. Accidental shootings are rare, and have been getting steadily more rare for a long time.

[jaxx]

16. That's what I'm talking about.

Daddy goes to jail for Junior shooting his sister. No kid should be able to get his hands on a gun.

[slackmaster]

17. I think educating people, and maybe tax breaks for gun safe purchases are preferable to the stick

of the criminal justice system.

[jaxx]

24. Is that saying Daddy isn't responsible for Junior finding his gun?

Daddy is supposed to be educated about gun safety. I'm not taking excuses for his negligence.

[slackmaster]

26. Unlike most people, I had the benefit of a dad who was a real expert on firearms

After serving in World War II, he taught Radioman school and Basic Rifle until he retired. My brother and I were taught how to properly clean, unload, load, shoot, and store firearms when we were six and 10 years old. Neither of us has ever had any problem with a firearm. I have passed the knowledge on to more than 100 people.

Firearm safety is so ingrained in my behavior, when I pick up a broom I'm careful not to point the handle at anyone. I don't excuse stupidity, but it's pretty common for parents to think their children are smarter than average. Most people of all ages are bombarded with terribly inaccurate information about weapons in the media, computer games, etc.

One thing some firearm instructors like to do with new students is to test their level of expertise by handing them a plastic dummy gun. MOST people, including adults, violate one or more of the basic firearm safety rules immediately, such as by putting their index finger through the trigger guard and aiming the mock weapon at something like a TV set or a dog. Children tend to point them at other children.

Gun safety is not instinctive. Handling weapons safely requires consistent application of some special procedures, quite different from how you handle most other tools.

[one-eyed fat man]

40. OK answer me this

Your kid steals your car and your whiskey while you're asleep, races a train at a railroad crossing and loses, killing himself and three of his buddies? How much of that is your fault?

Does it depend on if he's been a hoodlum since he was three and stealing all his family blind since then?

Does it depend if the keys were in the car, on your dresser, or in your pants pocket?

Does it depend on if his license has been revoked and every cop in town already knows his name?

Does it depend if you are a victim or an enabler of his anti-social behavior?

Does everything your kid do mean you are negligent, or perhaps it might depend on looking at all the circumstances?

Like "child-proofing" a home. It's one thing when you have toddlers, but you don't expect adults or teenagers to be sticking the silverware in the electrical outlets or drinking the Drano. A toddler finding a loaded gun on a nightstand is one thing. A teenager using the oxy-acetylene torch from the barn to bust into the gunsafe is quite another.

Jumping to conclusions really has no cardiac benefit.

[pipoman]

43. Children under around 15

die at a rate of 10-1 in drowning accidents....Ten to one, in swimming pools, bathtubs, toilets, lakes, should a parent or other person be prosecuted and put in jail for allowing a toddler access to a swimming pool? Certainly there are far less homes in the US with swimming pools than firearms yet the swimming pool drowning rate is at least triple the death rate of firearms among kids. There are inherent dangers in living in a free society with many, many more dangers to kids which claim more than firearms, in fact firearms isn't even in the top 10 last time I checked i believe it was #12...

This is why firearms education...very simple firearms education, not like US Marine firearms education..starting very young encouraging kids to not touch guns and get an adult, utilizing the resource of spaced repetition. That simple. The idea of trap shooting and basic gun safety in school, not as an extra curricular, is a pipe dream of the past IMHO. (BTW, I am of the age that I took a shotgun and ammunition on the school bus when I was 14 for trap shooting in physical education class along with thousands of other kids in my state...no blood in the streets...really..

[X_Digger]

25. How about car keys? Gas cans? Bleach & ammonia? Drano?

Any other thing you'd add to the list of things that you can be held liable for if someone else finds it?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. Yes, it will. In his house, at least. -nt

[Johonny]

11. I agree

[KansasVoter]

6. Drugs are a fact of life, teach your kids how to take drugs safely!

[Euromutt]

35. Broadly speaking, yes, actually

That's known as "harm reduction." We're talking stuff like "don't drive while you're stoned" to "if you're going to do heroin, fer chrissakes don't share needles" and "be careful to stay hydrated if you take E." And try to develop trusted sources, who aren't adulterating their product with chemicals that'll kill you, and are at least fairly honest about the purity of the product so you minimize your risk of ODing.

Most recreational drugs aren't actually all that dangerous by themselves. It's the fact that trade in them is illicit and therefore not subject to any consumer safety regulation that makes them so dangerous.

[aikoaiko]

9. My first firearm instruction was at BoyScout camp when I was 11.

We were taught the fundamentals of firearm safety and shooting with Ruger 10/22 rifles.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. It underscores the need for 5 new judges. nt.

[sharesunited]

14. You said a mouthful. A right to protect yourself from the guns they allow to proliferate?

What ignorant fools.

[slackmaster]

19. The Court has to follow the law

The Second Amendment is the law of the land. If you don't like the law, your proper course of action is to work toward repealing it.

[sharesunited]

21. Repeal isn't necessary. A proper and sensible interpretation is all which is required.

The 2A was a political device to get the Constitution ratified by skeptics of a federal government.

It was rendered obsolete by the American Civil War.

Been there, done that. Never again.

I call bullshit on any Justice trying to refashion it on the basis of some different rationalization.

[Abq_Sarah]

30. The same can be said

For the entire BOR. It was an addition to the constitution to get the anti-federalists on board.

There seems to be a fundamental difference of opinion between people who believe the government grants them rights and the people who understand our government was formed to protect our rights.

I am not a ward of the government.

[spin]

31. So we would not have had a federal government without the 2A ...

and there would have been no Civil War as there would have been no United States.

In all probability the individual states would have been taken over by foreign powers such as Spain and England.

The grand experiment launched by the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia would have failed and our country would have been ruled by tyrannical foreign governments for their profit.



The same fact applies to slavery. Had not a compromise been reached in the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia that allowed slavery in the southern states, there would have been no union. If the individual states had been able to survive (which is questionable), there would have been no Civil War.

If you assume that the 2nd Amendment was never passed and that firearms were forbidden to American citizens, than we would have never been able to settle west of the original 13 colonies as the Indians would have merely slaughtered settlers.

There probably is an interest parallel universe where the 2nd Amendment was never passed. Fortunately I don't live in it.

Thanks for finally posting an interesting argument.

[cowman]

34. A proper

and sensible interpretation according to who? You? No thanks, I'll stick with the SCOTUS. Your interpretation infringes on my right to keep and bear arms

[one-eyed fat man]

41. Exactly who has threatened you with a gun?nt

[L0oniX]

20. In this country we spend over half of the federal income tax on war (killing).

That makes you totally hypocritical to be anti gun. Stop the fucking wars and quit spending everything we have on the fucking military ...then talk about controlling guns.

[X_Digger]

23. Agreed. Remove the fascination, the forbidden-ness

My parents were the same way about alcohol and sex as they were about firearms. Here are the facts, here are the consequences, here is the information to make a decision, here's how to do things safely, if you choose to do so.

[victoryparty]

27. Smarter use will result in fewer problems

Short of the U.S. repealing the Second Amendment, then education - and regulation, where appropriate -is the smartest way to go.

[SteveM]

38. Yes, and the first place to start is with journalists. nt