Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

No Guns for You — You’ve Slammed Doors Very Hard

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:33 AM
Original message
No Guns for You — You’ve Slammed Doors Very Hard
Eugene Volokh • July 19, 2010 3:47 pm

In a few states — including New Jersey — people need a license to even get a firearm to keep at home, and the police may deny such a license if they think the person poses a danger to others. This isn’t limited to getting concealed carry licenses; it applies to having a gun in the first place. And it isn’t limited to people who have been convicted of a felony or a violent misdemeanor, or even to people who have been found by a preponderance of the evidence to have committed or threatened violent acts (that’s the standard usually used for domestic restraining orders).

In the Matter of Novello (N.J. Super. Ct. App. Div. July 15) offers a striking example of how this can be used: Novello was denied the ability to get any firearm (whether handgun or long gun) because his ex-wife says he “became angry at times, slammed doors with force and caused damage,” which made her fear him. (The wife also alleged that “Novello stated that his stomach was ‘turned’ by the idea of her having a boyfriend and he was going to get a gun,” but the trial judge expressly said “that it was difficult for him to determine whether Novello had actually threatened to kill Pissucci if she dated someone else,” so it sounds like he wasn’t relying on that.) Here’s what seems to me to be the heart of the appellate court’s analysis:

{Novello} acknowledged that he and Pissucci argued at times. He admitted that, on one occasion, he slammed a door and a piece of the door stop “snapped off.” ...

After hearing argument from counsel for the parties, the court rendered an opinion from the bench. The court noted that Pissucci’s behavior probably contributed “to the situation.” The court found that Novello’s relationship with Pissuci involved “a great deal of acrimony” and was “very argumentative{.}” The court stated that Novello and Pissucci

trigger each other into verbal arguments. They trigger each other into losing their temper{s}. They trigger each other so that doors are slammed. They trigger each other so that doors are slammed and broken. They trigger each other so that the wife is now fearful if he gets a gun ... she is going to be killed.


The trial judge stated that it was difficult for him to determine whether Novello had actually threatened to kill Pissucci if she dated someone else. The judge also stated that, while Novello said that he wanted to obtain a gun to protect himself in Scotch Plains, there were “very little incidents of crime, at least incidents of violent crime” in that municipality....

The court found that the Police Chief had properly determined that issuance of a handgun purchase permit and FPIC to Novello would not be in the interest of the public health, safety or welfare . In our view, the court’s finding is supported by credible evidence.

As we have explained, the testimony presented at the hearing established that Novello and his former wife have a volatile and argumentative relationship, which has at times prompted Novello to act in an angry manner. It is undisputed that Novello’s actions have included the forceful slamming of doors, which has resulted in property damage, although the damage was relatively minor. Furthermore, Novello failed to establish that he had a legitimate need for the weapon.

We are satisfied that the court’s factual findings support its conclusion that it would not be in the interest of the public’s health, safety and welfare for Novello to possess a handgun, particularly in view of his volatile relationship with his former wife.


Source: http://volokh.com/2010/07/19/no-guns-for-you-youve-slammed-doors-very-hard/#more-34492


Should speech rights be restricted for someone who is interested in Russian architecture or in Chinese gardening? (They might have divided loyalties and be prone to spying against the US.)

Should religious rights be denied someone who studies Mayan culture? (They might be prone to human sacrifice.)

Should people who punch bags be preemptively imprisoned? (They might assault someone.)

Should all of these cases be settled by the arbitrary "discretion" of some individual politician? Without trial or due process of any kind?

Should you really loose your right to keep and bear arms because you slammed doors in your own house?

This is just an example of why the Supreme Court should use strict scrutiny in addressing government regulation and especially arbitrary discretion by anti-gun ideologues. "May infringe" is unconstitutional when applied to any right, never mind enumerated, constitutional rights.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Got any more details on the Moscow AK-totin man? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. He was Epic
And now , immortal !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nomorehannity Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. Interesting article. We've lost so many rights it's incredible.
So called "restraining orders" are unamerican because they wield great power against a person (only a law abiding person because true criminals ignore them), and the target of the so called restraining order cannot defend himself in a trial before he loses all sorts of rights. He loses all sorts of rights based only on the word of one person who is extremely biased and has motivation to lie. So called restraining orders make a mockery of the rule of law. They actually encourage violence. Nearly every dead woman has a "restraining" order on someone. As stated in the article, allowing government to take your rights on a whim, always results in government doing just that.

As far as the door slamming issue goes, this is a great example of why you NEVER ADMIT TO ANYTHING TO COPS OR IN COURT. If you're asked if you slammed doors you either say you don't recall doing such a thing or you say you don't know what they mean by "slam." Then you say you don't believe you did anything that could be described as "slamming." People dig themselves holes by admitting things. You cannot lie in court (though many do it) and I don't recommend doing it, but that DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO SPILL EVERYTHING.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burrfoot Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. There may be many false restraining orders out there,
but there are also a lot of valid ones. I've worked with kids and mothers who have them against husbands/fathers/mothers, and they've been entirely justified.

I do completely agree with you that they're entirely useless in a practical sense, though. The only thing it really accomplishes is to show a judge that you've taken that step, to build another piece of paper/evidence against the person, should they ignore it and do something stupid. It's part of the process, but anyone who relied on a restraining order to protect them (without being proactive themselves) would be a fool.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. I suspect the New Jersey court would also fail
to establish that I have a legitimate need to post this message. I've even posted forcefully IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS from time to time, although without causing property damage. Therefore, the New Jersey court would likely find it not to be in the interest of the public's health, safety and welfare for me to post messages on the internet, particularly in view of my volatile relationship with "statist fucks"

What part of "incorporation" and "fundamental right" do they not understand?


To paraphrase the tan klan , " Go back to Yermany ."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm glad I left NJ...
Edited on Tue Jul-20-10 01:17 PM by Glassunion
I also did not "qualify" to own a handgun in the great state of NJ.

I received a similar response to my application: “very little incidents of crime, at least incidents of violent crime”.

My main issue is that I did not have anyone "connected" that could vouch for me as I had recently moved into the area. They could not determine my "credibility" or "responsibility" as I had no friends that were residents of the town.

Next door neighbor had plenty of firearms. Of course they were "Friends" of the mayor. I'm not pulling the race card on this one. I was just not connected.

I moved to PA, and when I decided to purchase a firearm, I did. No hassle at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I am so glad
that I live in the Great State Of Nevada, we don't have to have a reason to buy a gun, here in Nye County we don't have to register our guns, we can buy as many as we want, when we want, we don't have to have a FOID card, we can openly carry our guns without problems, NV. is a shall issue state and we have a repub. sheriff who is very pro 2nd Amend.
I couldn't even live in a state like NJ as all my weapons and ammo would be illegal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ha! It's against the law for me to even face Chicago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armueller2001 Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Freedom sounds awesome.
Edited on Tue Jul-20-10 04:38 PM by armueller2001
I live in shithole Chicago and it's ridiculous. Getting the hell out of here as soon as possible.. why (over)pay taxes to a corrupt city/ state that doesn't respect my rights? Voting with my feet and my wallet ASAP.

Fuck mayor Daley and fuck this place. No way i could ever live in the authoritarian states of NJ NY MA or CA either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Hey, come to NV
we would welcome you with open arms, another great thing about NV is no state income tax, the casinos pay all that, the downside is that during the summer the average temp is 110-115 although people say it is a dry heat to which I reply, you only burn up faster
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. If only PA's hunting laws were equally permissive...
Glad we got another one out of Joyesey. :D

Nah, but it sure seems like a lot of folks from NJ end up here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yes, in PA we do have our own issues...
Corrupt government, blah blah blah...

Did you see the Grand Jury report on our government? http://blogs.lancasteronline.com/tommurse/2010/05/25/pa-grand-jury-to-legislature-ditch-caucuses-go-part-time/

I also have concerns about the shale gas drilling and its impact on the Deleware and other water sources... But that is a topic for another forum group.

But as far as my 2nd A freedoms go. I love PA. It was as it should be. Quick, inexpensive and hassle free from purchase to carry license.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC