Feds Want Reporting For High-Powered Rifle Sales

[Purveyor]

By ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press Alicia A. Caldwell, Associated Press – Mon Dec 20, 1:36 pm ET

WASHINGTON – The federal agency that monitors gun sales wants weapons dealers near the Mexican border to start reporting multiple sales of high-powered rifles, according to a notice published in the Federal Register.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has asked the White House budget office to approve an emergency request requiring border-area gun dealers to report the sales of two or more rifles to the same customer within a five-day period.

The emergency request, published Friday in the Federal Register, is likely to face stiff opposition from gun rights advocates, including the National Rifle Association. ATF wants the Office of Budget Management to approve the request by Jan. 5.

NRA officials did not immediately return a telephone message for comment Monday. Last week the group's chief lobbyist, Chris Cox, told the Washington Post that the "NRA supports legitimate efforts to stop criminal activity, but we will not stand idle while our Second Amendment is sacrificed for politics." The Post first reported the proposal.

High-powered rifles have become the weapon of choice for Mexico's warring drug cartel. More than 30,000 people have been killed in Mexico's drug war since President Felipe Calderon launched an offensive against the powerful drug gangs shortly after taking office in late 2006.

MORE...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101220/ap_on_re_us/us_gun_sales_reporting_2

[Arctic Dave]

1. :o

:popcorn:

[tularetom]

2. Don't they already file a 4473 form?

I don't get why this necessary.

[Callisto32]

9. Remember that the 4473 is disallowed by statute from being used in any kind of "registration" scheme

*SNERK* like they don't have a big ole cabinet of them somewhere already.

[DonP]

3. Anything larger than .22 is "High Powered" and "bulk" = 2

Once again, to look like they are doing something they are changing the rules at the BATFE. Anyone that buys 2 or more rifles of any caliber larger than .22 will be "investigated" and I'm betting have their NICS check held up until they can get around to clearing it.

I'm sure the cartel straw purchasers will all fall into this cunning trap.

They'd never think of sending two people in or having people go in a week apart to buy the semi-auto rifles they are afraid of. BTW, I'm still waiting to hear which gun shops or gun shows are selling those full auto M-16s and AK-47s with claymores on the side.

[benEzra]

4. I wish the media would do a little basic research...like, you know, Google...

since this proposal is aimed at mostly small- and intermediate caliber rifles. I don't have a big problem with the proposal itself, but the fact that BATFE seems to be creating a new law out of thin air, unless I'm misunderstanding something here.

I wish journalists would also familiarize themselves with the National Firearms Act---and the fact that the military-grade weapons the cartels are most notably using are sold only to governments, not to U.S. civilians---but I suppose this article is still an improvement over the typical Bulwer-Lytton fare...

Added on edit: Here is the docket.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-31761.pdf

That's odd, it seems to exempt .223's, unless that was an oversight. Some reports were saying "anything larger than .22LR", but the docket doesn't specify rimfire vs. centerfire, and AFAIK a .223 is the exact same "caliber" (bore diameter) as a .22LR if you're not specifying ignition system or case length.

[Abq_Sarah]

5. I'm pretty sure they can't just make it up as they go

This should require congressional action as when they mandated Form 3310.4 for reporting multiple pistol/revolver sales within a 5 day period.

[Callisto32]

10. I just had "federal adminstrative law" and this language stands out.

"A duly promulgated rule has the force and effect of law."

You see, administrative agencies are DESIGNED to do precisely what you seem to be worried about them doing: creating new law out of whole cloth. While rules are generally created through "notice and comment" rulemaking, they are free to create the rules through a quasi-judicial process (with far less procedural protections and evidentiary rigor than would be had in an actual trial). They may even rely entirely upon hearsay evidence in coming to their conclusions, and those conclusions will be given wide deference by the courts. It is, of course, quite a bit more nuanced than that, but actual, constitutionally valid governmental agencies generally defer to the "experts" (the same ones who called a shoe-string a machine gun) in the agencies.

Edit: Of course, this is all subject to the terms of the agency's organic statute, as well.

[Kennah]

6. Seeking a definition

"semi-automatic guns more powerful than .22-caliber rifles that use a detachable magazine within a five-day period."

So centerfire, detachable magazine, semiautomatics?

They better contact IT and have their DBA staff allow for "future growth".

[Euromutt]

7. See also earlier thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x351572

[Katya Mullethov]

8. Starts way farther back

they have been greasing this thing for months
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=351376&mesg_id=351376

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=351499&mesg_id=351499

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=350975&mesg_id=350975

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x351498

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjAASXbKE_8



Just more paintin the ceiling and neglecting the roof .

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

11. "High-powered rifles have become the weapon of choice for Mexico's warring drug cartel."

Define "high powered rifle"... I have a strong suspicion that this charactarization is bullshit. I just don't believe that the Mexican cartel is using 7.62x51, .30-06, 7.62x54R, or 8mm (or other similar/larger rifles) in any great capacity at all. Remember people... the M16 and AK47 do NOT fire high power rifle cartridges.

[lepus]

12. WTF is a high powered rifle?

Is it a kissing cousin to an 'assault rifle'?

Darn near every hunting rifle I have would be considered a high powered rifle.

Including a few magazine fed, bolt action ones.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

13. 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm, & 5.45x39mm (M16/AR15, and AK47/AK74 ammo) are pretty weak, actually.

In fact, they are categorically listed as cartridges of "intermediate" power. In the world of rifle cartridges, these 3 rounds which feed the four most notorious "assault weapons" are very weak in comparison to most other rounds fired.

Any news report or person feeding you a meme about "high powered" dangerous weapons like these is just trying to mindfuck you with emotional based bullshit.

[lawodevolution]

14. this is not sexy information

so stop it. those are ultra super high power armor piercing mega rounds. They kill everything in their path. In fact every time you shoot a 7.62x39 you kill a kitten.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

15. Not if you line them up...

then you kill about a dozen kittens each time you shoot.

[Remmah2]

16. I wonder if media writers take courses in using adjectives?

When I took fiction writing courses in high school and college, grades were based on loading up the assignment with words to fill the page.

The over-sized aluminum alloy shovel was used to move the massive odorous manure pile onto the mountainous barnyard heap.

[one-eyed fat man]

17. It's against the law!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=351376&mesg_id=352135

Dealers have long been required to report multiple sales of handguns to the same person within five business days of each other, but this is the first attempt to extend it to rifles. The core concern with the reporting is that the dealer not only logs the sale in his records, but must report it (with full description of the firearm and the purchaser) to the agency, which (it is safe to assume) computerizes it.

There are several violations of the Gun Control Act, as amended by the Firearm Owners' Protection Act:

First, 18 USC §926(b) provides "The Attorney General shall give not less than ninety days public notice, and shall afford interested parties opportunity for hearing, before prescribing such rules and regulations." This is stricter than the Admin Procedure Act's general provision for a "reasonable" comment period, and it has no emergency exceptions. ATFE is only giving 30 days' notice.

Second, the FOPA amendments were intended to cut off future requirements of direct reporting -- I say future because the existing regs (including reporting of multiple handgun sales were grandfathered in, but limited to those specific requirements. Thus far and no farther.

18 USC §926(a) allow promulgation of necessary rules and regulations, adding:

"No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof..." Moreover, 18 USC §923(g)(3), which required multiple sales reporting, specifically limits it to handguns: reporting is required when a dealer "at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more pistols, or revolvers, or any combination of pistols and revolvers totaling two or more, to an unlicensed person."

It's time to contact legislators about this, pointing out the illegality, and asking them to lodge protests with agency and with the Office of Management and Budget, which is being called upon to approve the request, pursuant to the Paperwork Reduction Act.