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The willful violation of the Law. Brought to you by the city of Philadelphia… Again.

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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 04:18 PM
Original message
The willful violation of the Law. Brought to you by the city of Philadelphia… Again.
In case you are unaware, Philly has had this habit of ignoring the laws of the state of Pennsylvania. PA has preemption statues. Yet for some reason the Philly city council is continually trying to override state laws. What’s on the plate of Philly residents this year?

Ordinance 080015: Never been “convicted” of a crime? You may get a knock on the door by the Police demanding that you surrender your firearms. The city is requiring that the DA notify the city police when charges are filed so that they can pay you a visit. They will then take your firearms even though you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Don’t worry, if you are found innocent you can get your firearms back. We all know how easy that has been in the past for some residents who had their firearms confiscated for not breaking any laws.

Ordinance 080016: Here they are going for a twofer… Licensing and Registration. Pay no mind to the fact that the state specifically has laws that convey quite the opposite. As written it is just about the shittiest piece of garbage I have seen in a while. The amount of information they require on the application is absurd. Next thing I really like is that if the police don’t get around to doing the paperwork for your application you are automatically denied the application. Next thing… Apparently you will need an application and license for each and every firearm you own. All licenses will contain: name, age, address, full description of the firearm, photo, signature and fingerprints thus creating a de facto registry. All applications will contain: name, all addresses for the past 5 years, all occupations held in the past 5 years, date and place of birth, the caliber, length of barrel, make, model, serial number of the firearm, a statement from the applicant indicating the date, place, nature and disposition of any criminal proceedings brought against the applicant(not traffic violations), copy of the applicant’s fingerprints and a photograph. Plus each application will also be accompanied by the name, address and occupation of the person from whom the firearm is to be acquired or transferred from.

Ordinance 080034: This is a good one… This one creates a registry of not firearms… But ammunition. The ordinance mandates that all sales of ammunition be reported to the city of Philly Police Department and to require that the Department maintain a registry of such reports. It requires that any person that sells ammunition, shall make a report to the PD within 7 days following the sale and it will contain: A description of the purchase, type of ammunition and the quantity, name and address of the purchaser and the date of the purchase.

Ordinance 080036: This one is fun… If you have the coveted license to carry in Philly, when it comes time to renew make sure you bring some stuff with you. You will have to fill out some forms that contain: Name, address, birth date, occupation, place of birth, date and hour of application, the caliber, length of barrel, make, model, serial number, and type of all firearms in your home, business or any other property leased or owned by the applicant or under control or access of the applicant. Also it requires that if you sell, transfer, have stolen, or a loss(I.E. fire or theft) or destruction of a firearm that you report all of the above information of the disposition of the firearm to the Police Department within 30 days.

The beauty of all of these ordinances is that they do nothing to promote public safety, and will do nothing to reduce crime or catch a criminal. It has been tried in several other states and even countries without contributing to public safety at all. Just shitty words on a page, none of which will hold up in a court of law in the state. What part of “shall not be questioned” does the city of Philadelphia not understand in our state constitution?
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh FFS..
What is it with Philly? Do they somehow think they're separate from the state?
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yep... They think they are their own country.
Remember the ole violations of the 4th Amendment of the "darker" folks with the stop and frisk initiatives?
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm reminded of the security guard whose handgun was seized.. twice.
http://articles.philly.com/2010-11-03/news/24954327_1_controversial-gun-license-bus

"If he's that defiant, should this guy have a gun?" said Sgt. Ray Evers, a police spokesman.


Defiant, you say? He's not properly bowing and scraping? He dares look you in the eye?!?!



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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Or these
http://articles.philly.com/2010-09-03/news/24974037_1_gun-cable-workers-license

http://articles.philly.com/2010-08-31/news/24974423_1_city-cops-philadelphia-cops-security-guards


http://articles.philly.com/2010-11-05/news/24953532_1_stop-and-frisk-police-supervisors-police-department

Profile much?
In 2009, police stopped 253,333 pedestrians, 72 percent of whom were African American, the suit said. Only 8 percent of the stops led to an arrest, often for "criminal conduct that was entirely independent from the supposed reason for the stop," according to the suit.

They stopped 182,400 black people in one year. Think about this for a second. There are only 640,665 black people in Philly. That's roughly 1 in 3.5 black people were stopped and frisked in one year alone. Fucking bullshit.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Apparently the City of Philly government is being mentored by their Chicago counterparts...
:puke: I predict it will cost them a lot in legal fees to learn they are assholes.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm glad I do not live within the city limits.
I would not comply with these ordinances as you could simply fight them on their legality. That is if they even pass. They were spanked pretty hard the last time they pulled similar shit.
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. That all sounds reasonable...
why would any responsible gun owner oppose these common sense, life saving measures?

:sarcasm:
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. But gun registration has saved bajillions of lives in the states that have it.
AND! It has caught a bajillion more!
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. PA was the first state to use Jefferson's acknowledgment in the Declaration of Independence "that
all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed".

After that historic declaration of freedom of each person from the divine right of kings and religious leaders on 4 July 1776, Pennsylvania was the first state to clearly define rights of its citizens as sovereigns individuals.

A DECLARATION OF THE RIGHTS OF THE INHABITANTS OF THE COMMONWEALTH OR STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 28 Sept. 1776
"That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, amongst which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety."
And
"That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state”

As an inalienable right it is impossible for PA citizens to have given away any of their declared inalienable rights, including the right of self-defense, when they ratified our Constitution on 12 December 1787, or when they ratified the BOR later on March 10, 1790.

It is sad to see so many anti-RKBA supporters ignore facts in their effort to create a totalitarian government to make We the People subjects once again to an immoral authority deriving its power from a majority while ignoring the sacred nature of individual sovereignty upon which our government was founded.
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YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Philly sincerely doesnt care
they are aware OC is legal, yet almost every week our forum gets hit with another OCer harassed by Philthy PD. They will eat however many lawsuits they have to, as long as they keep the laws they want. Settle out of court and you get to keep your law. Its not the cities money they waste after all...
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think you are mistaken on open carry in Philly.
Edited on Fri Jan-28-11 09:19 PM by Glassunion
It is true that PA is an open carry state, however not in Philly.

According to state law, open carry is legal without a license to carry a firearm in PA, except for in cities of the first class. Philly is a city of the first-class, and you need a LTC to openly carry in Philly. This is not a Philly law, but a state law. Also, Philly is the only city of the first-class(over 1 million in population) in the state.
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YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. well aware of that
Edited on Fri Jan-28-11 09:37 PM by YllwFvr
like I said, they will harass, detain, and arrest open carriers who are breaking no laws

edit: OCed in philly several times, I guess I got lucky. No police interactions. Then again there were perhaps 60 of us
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Sorry, did not pick up on the fact that you had a LTCF.
But yes, they will harass. Police aubuse in Philly is almost as native and well known as the cheese-steaks.
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YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. They seem to think city of the first class
grants them a lot of leeway. If I had some cash I would try to push the issue myself, im not far away. Getting arrested right now would murder my career however :/. Perhaps soon when Im out of college!
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