Armed robber shot dead at McDonald's in Sunland

[Atypical Liberal]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/03/armed-robber-shot-dead-at-mcdonalds-in-sunland.html

Armed robber shot dead at McDonald's in Sunland

"The shooting occurred around 10:47 a.m. when an armed man walked into the restaurant on Foothill Boulevard and attempted to rob the clerks at gunpoint, said Officer Greg Baek of the Los Angeles Police Department."

[Marblehead]

1. Wimpy is dead

[Euromutt]

4. You mean the British fast food chain?

http://www.wimpy.uk.com/

No, wait, sorry, you mean the Popeye character. What do you think his last words were? "I will gladly not shoot you Tuesday for a hamburger today"?

[Marblehead]

5. burger addicts need help

not jail

[GreenStormCloud]

2. Shot by a legally armed customer. N/T

[Hoyt]

7. Glad it was a retired policeman, not some untrained cowboy playing hero.

[Glassunion]

8. Would the bad guy have been any less or more dead?

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/26880439/detail.html

[Hoyt]

10. Well, an untrained cowboy might have missed and got innocent people killed.

But, I know most of the pro-guns-in-public crowd believe they are ready to squeeze off a shot that lands dead center because they've blasted away at a bunch of paper targets.

Again, glad it was a retired policemen and not one of those gun carriers who believes they are ready for such a situation.

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. Whereas trained police are safe? You might want to tell that to this guy's family:

Note-emphasis added:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/archive/x1777797772/DA-Eurie-Stamps-shot-accidentally-by-police#ixzz1HBGOwcFk

DA: Cambridge native Eurie Stamps shot accidentally by Framingham police officer

Eurie Stamps Sr., 68, was accidentally shot and killed at his 26 Fountain St. home when police entered his home to serve a drug search warrant in January.

By Norman Miller
Wicked Local Cambridge
Posted Mar 09, 2011 @ 05:08 PM
Last update Mar 10, 2011 @ 02:08 PM

FRAMINGHAM — A Framingham Police officer stumbled and accidentally shot and killed a Cambridge native as he laid face down on the floor of his home in January, the Middlesex district attorney's office announced Wednesday.

Middlesex District Attorney Gerry Leone said that Framingham Police Officer Paul Duncan shot and killed Eurie Stamps during a drug raid 63 days ago on Jan. 5.

Stamps, 68, was unarmed and laying on the ground. Duncan, a member of the SWAT team, had walked over to Stamps to handcuff him and check him for weapons, when Duncan began to fall.....

Which brings up two questions for you, Hoyt:

1. Do you believe the cop in this case should face the same legal penalties that a (as you put it) "cowboy" would?

2. Is Mr. Stamps less dead by virtue of having been killed by a cop?

[Hoyt]

14. If you guys were doing what the police do, the accidental rate would be astronomical.

Your "dodge and shoot" mentality is a joke and a danger to society.

Actually, I think any private individual that shoots an innocent person (or an unarmed or armed criminal who was not a clear threat) should spend time in jail. Unfortunately, DAs often feel sorry for the bumbling armed citizen who thought they'd be a hero, but failed. Authorities should confiscate all their guns too.

Do I really need to answer #2?

[oneshooter]

16. Police high bullet count killings.

50 rnds fired. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2008/04/25/police-shooting.html

6 rnds fired, http://www.mahalo.com/omar-edwards/

41 rnds fired http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unarmed_people_shot_by_police

NyCity cops have really bad aim,should they be armed at all?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

19. I wonder how good your aim is when there's a potential for return fire. Paper targets ain't same.

[oneshooter]

23. My aim is fine, been shot at a lot over the last 20+ years. How about you?

How about you? Spread brown organic matter last time you were shot at? Or did you run "screaming like a little girl"?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

39. I'm sure you get shot at all the time carrying in public -- unless you are in LE.

And, hey, I don't find it necessary to carry a gun in public like you.

[Taitertots]

22. How many innocent people have been shot accidentally by a legal CPL holder firing at criminals?

What evidence do you have that anyone of those people were let off because the DA "feel sorry for the bumbling armed citizen who thought they'd be a hero, but failed"?

[friendly_iconoclast]

27. I'll answer your second question for him- None.

Our interlocutor is not the sort of person to let inconvenient fact impede his prejudices in the slightest. Witness the fact that

he still maintains that I own a gun and carry it in public, despite my having stated directly to him here more than once that I do

not own a gun.

[friendly_iconoclast]

28. My "dodge and shoot" mentality? I've told you more than once that I do not own a gun.

I also notice that you "dodged" the question asked:

1. Do you believe the cop in this case should face the same legal penalties that a (as you put it) "cowboy" would?

Can't quite bring yourself to answer that one, eh?

[PavePusher]

12. Well, except for the fact that police hit innocent people at a much higher rate than Citizen CC'ers.

I don't have the link right now (just barely got my comp reloaded from Blue-Screen-of-Death), but someone here probably does.

Your concerns are invented, and not supported by data. You should look into that.

[Hoyt]

13. Where do you get misses for private citizens? Most couldn't even get it out of their pants before

things are over. I'd also like to see your stats on police hitting innocent people (make sure it is per incident).

Plus, police don't always aim to hit. Finally, they know they are in deep chit if they screw up.

The cowboys here, need to accept they won't be much help in these situations no matter how dang good they think they are at hitting paper targets, posing in front of a mirror and "dodging and shooting." I like the last technique espoused by one of your pro-gun members -- what an absolute joke "dodge and shoot."

[PavePusher]

15. "police don't always aim to hit."

Then they'd better have a good explaination for their actions. If police are discharging firearms without intending to hit a target, their training is badly lacking.

And I'm not sure why you are criticising what is actually proper technique for a defensive situation. Surely, if your relative is a retired police officer, this would be something you'd know.

As I stated, I don't have a link at present, just had to reinstall the OS on my computer. Hopefully, someone will see this and lend a hand.

[Hoyt]

17. They often lay down a barrage, much like the military. And, those of u who like tactical weapons.

[X_Digger]

21. Get out the hip waders, boys, it's getting deep. n/t

[Hoyt]

32. I know XD, you've spent so much time shooting paper targets & sticks that you are better than police

[X_Digger]

41. Find me a training manual that advocates 'laying down a barrage'. Just one.

There are enough training manuals online that you should be able to find one.

[friendly_iconoclast]

29. And where did you learn this pearl of tactical wisdom? From your purported FIL?

*cough*, *cough*, *bullshit*, *cough*.....

[Hoyt]

31. Beats you guys belief that you are better equipped/trained to handle situations than police because

you've shot hundreds of paper targets.

BTW -- My FIL is dead, so address your comments to me.

[friendly_iconoclast]

42. Where, exactly, was this alleged belief expressed? Kindly cite to evidence.

You seem to have misunderstood the claim that many civilian gun owners are better shots than cops (because, frankly, many cops

only practice as required).

[PavePusher]

30. Where the fuck did you get that particular piece of excrement from? n/t

[Hoyt]

34. From your buddy's post above.

[PavePusher]

37. I see. So you outright invented it. Interesting. n/t

[Hoyt]

18. I'm criticizing "dodge and shoot" in a public place. While you are dodging, you can't aim very well.

I don't care how many times you practice it in front of the mirror.

[PavePusher]

33. Where did you get the idea that you shoot...

while dodging?

Jebus, your ignorance and insinuations get more astounding every day.

[Hoyt]

35. Pusher, that's what one of your buddies claimed. I don't pack, so have never dodged and shot.

I bet you do it in front of the mirror to practice though?

BTW -- still waiting for the stats.

[PavePusher]

38. Reading comprehension fail on your part.

And I explained about the stats. If I can manage to find them again, I'll post it up.

[Hoyt]

40. Should be easy to find. Try the search function. You seem to have no trouble logging in here.

[friendly_iconoclast]

43. How about a few (hell, one would do) citations for *your* claim(s)?

Claims of telepsychological ability and unavailable-for-comment relatives don't really count, BTW....

[GreenStormCloud]

26. Don't aim to hit? That doesn't fit ANY police training I am aware of.

I am a retired Private Investigator friends with numberous LEO, mostly sherrif dept. I know a good bit about police training. They are taught to NEVER fire warning shots. If they shoot, it is to hit. You are substituting you own beliefs for reality.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. You may want to look at the facts.

believe they are ready to squeeze off a shot that lands dead center because they've blasted away at a bunch of paper targets
Exactly what do you think cops practice on? Very few police have ever shot anything except paper for their entire career. Further, hitting someone who is only a few feet away doesn't require great marksmanship.

In real life CCW people rarely accidently shoot an innocent. It does happen but with extreme rarity.

[Hoyt]

36. Very few police make many years without getting shot at. Check it out.

BTW -- why would you shoot anyone yards away? Doesn't sound like self-defense to me.

[PavePusher]

44. "Tueller Drill"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

[Kennah]

45. Please post any instances ...

... where someone carrying, other than law enforcement, killed an innocent bystander while "playing hero"

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. You do realize that most of us shoot better than cops?

[Taitertots]

20. Police have a higher crime rate than people who CCW

They also have notoriously poor shooting skills and a high rate of missing shots/ shooting the wrong person.

[Atypical Liberal]

24. What about a trained civilian?

Glad it was a retired policeman, not some untrained cowboy playing hero.

What about a civilian with 20+ years of shooting experience?

Why are you so willing to allow policeman to bear arms, and have no problem with a retired policeman shooting down a robber, but so against anyone else being able to do the same thing?

[slackmaster]

3. The robber chose his target poorly. Tragic waste of human life.

The result of a series of poor choices on his part.

[east texas lib]

6. Tickle the dragon's tail often enough and you're bound to wake the dragon up. nt

[Hoyt]

9. Deleted, replied to wrong poster. Sorry.