The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

[Atypical Liberal]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

"Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries."


While you can't say that more guns equal less crime, the evidence continues to pile up that more guns certainly don't equal more crime. We have vastly more firearms than Britain and yet they have a higher violent crime rate.

"Oh, but at least nobody's getting shot in Britain!", the anti-firearm folks will exclaim. Instead, victims are forced to endure physical contests of strength against their attackers.

[cliffordu]

1. Fuck. I had no idea.

[virgogal]

2. According to the article Canada has a higher violence rate than the U.S..

It shows it twice as high.

That surprised me.

[thereismore]

3. I predict gun fans' reaction to this: Clearly, Britain needs more guns.

:freak:

[gejohnston]

5. New Guinia's parliment

Decided that when home invasions were so out of hand, they repealed their gun ban.

[gejohnston]

4. At the same time

Finland and Norway are as if not more awash in guns than we are (and silencers are legal) are well, even safer than the Swiss. Oh yeah, South Africa has super strict gun laws.

[villager]

7. Norway? With its total ban on automatic weapons? And licensing?

n/t

[gejohnston]

9. The point was number of

in private ownership. I was not aware of the licensing. Other than Tasmania before 1993 or Canada before 1977,where can you own full autos without a lot of hassle?

[villager]

10. ...and the requirement to have the gun, or part of it, securely locked away?

n/t

[gejohnston]

11. rats

scratch that off my list to places go if Bush three comes back. Any suggestions?

[villager]

12. I dunno. Sounds sensible enough to me. No wonder their gun violence rate is so much lower!

n/t

[gejohnston]

13. Actually

It is because of no poverty and, like Switzerland, is that they have a strong sense of community where even the largest cities are kind of like Mayberry. Norway, Finland, and Switzerland (who only register militia owned weapons but not privately owned weapons) Finland has a higher percentage of firearms in household than we do. Of course, Switzerland has the most automatic weapons. have the lowest violent crime rates in Europe. All of the countries with stricter laws than the have higher rates. I lived in Japan and the real reason for their low crime rate can be found by how they come together during the earthquake instead of rioting in the streets. Nothing to do with gun laws.

[villager]

27. Well, not "nothing" to do with gun laws, of course. But will agree that the cohesive

...social net also plays a large part in their statistics. Indeed, that sense of cohesion, rather than each-man-for-himself atomization, is why they agree to sensible laws for deadly implements like guns.

No one is terrified that someone is taking something away from them, leaving them fearfully unprotected, etc.

[TheWraith]

28. Keep on rationalizing, there.

I'm sure that's also why Canada, which is nearly as swimming in guns as we are, and Switzerland, which has 660,000 machine guns in private hands, are so civilized. :eyes:

[villager]

43. Glad to see your inevitable check-in, with the inevitable snarky smilie!

However, back in the real world, there's the obvious discrepancy of gun apologists extrapolating every "home invasion" defense as meaning something Writ Large for a national gun policy, and dismissing -- well, national gun policies in other nations -- as having nothing to do whatsoever, with the level of gun violence in those places.

speaking of, you know, rationalizations.

[TheWraith]

44. I notice you were completely unable to address my point.

So you need to go and blame "gun apologists" for supposedly having a double standard, even when you are completely unable to admit that gun control hasn't yet made Chicago or England any safer.

[Euromutt]

29. Norway and Finland have had some exceedingly good fortune

The Norwegians have been able to fund their social services in part due to the fact that they're the world's third largest exporter of oil, and even when oil revenue drops off, they'll still have natural gas. They've also been careful to funnel 80% of oil and gas revenues into an investment fund which should outlast the reserves.

The Finns for their part have had the good fortune of having had Nokia bring unprecedented revenue into the country, though that gravy train may be running out of steam since Nokia completely missed the boat (to mix transportation metaphors) on smart phones. Still, there's still a fair part of the world that hasn't gone 3G yet.

It's comparatively easy to operate an excellent social services system when you have a prolonged national windfall, with an ethnically (relatively) homogenous population with no historical baggage of slavery and immigration leaving a slum-dwelling underclass. Said ethnic homogeneity helps no end with that "sense of cohesion," it might be added.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

31. America too has required licensing of fullautos since 1934 and banned 'em altogether in 1986...

What's your point?

[VoteProgressive]

6. Misleading story, I think our murder rate is triple the UKs.........

Murder would be a violent crime.

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. True, but our murder rate always was higher....

...even when the US and the UK essentially had the same gun laws in the 19th Century.

[VoteProgressive]

15. True but the story is really misleading when....

It says "has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S."
Most would consider murder violent!

[X_Digger]

18. "all types of violence" -- together, not separately. n/t

[Euromutt]

30. As X_digger says, that's for all types of violent crime combined

That does, of course, severely obscure distinctions in degree; the UK's violent crime rate is largely composed of simple assault and strongarm (unarmed) robbery, but with comparatively little sexual assault and homicide. The South African violent crime rate, by comparison, comprises far higher rates of rape and homicide than the UK's, even people are less likely to punch you in the face and make off with your iPod while you're going "Ow, what the fuck was that?" The US falls in between those two examples.

But that's the Daily Fail for you; don't let anything get in the way of an alarming headline.

[lawodevolution]

14. violent crime that does not involve a murder is many times higher than murder rate in the UK, USA

Canada and anywhere. Rape is violent crime. I wouldn't be surprised if the UK fixed their stats because it is in their best interest to make their laws look good.

[happyslug]

17. But the Murder rate is considered the most Accurate.

Because you almost always have a body, in other crimes, including violent crimes NOT ending in death, you do not have a body and thus must be by reports to police. Many crimes are just not reported, or if reported to police are NOT written down (To keep local crime rates down, if a crime in not reported, it is not a crime that affects the local crime rate).

Do to the problems with the self reporting of crime, when Surveys are done, the inaccuracies of the other crime rates quickly reveals itself. Thus the only accurate crime rate is the murder rate and thus why it is used.

The report by the Daily Mail is based on reports to local Police in the UK and Europe as while as the US and South Africa. The later two are notorious for NOT having accurate crime statistics EXCEPT for murder.

[safeinOhio]

16. Somalia has no gun laws

one of the safest places to raise your children in the world.


:toast:

[Katya Mullethov]

19. Mexico has resonable restrictions

That respect one's right to hunt .

Hunt old men with RPG's .

[safeinOhio]

20. Me, I'd rather be in Mexico.

But, then that's just me.

[Katya Mullethov]

35. Patience

Wait long enough and it will come to you .

[gejohnston]

21. They

Have no laws period.

[safeinOhio]

24. Or you could say they have

no restrictions on the right to bear arms.

[safeinOhio]

22. Going on vacation,

here are the 10 safest countries you can visit.



http://www.tourism-review.com/top-10-safest-countries-in-the-world-news2185

[safeinOhio]

23. Some of those 10 counties have lots of guns

others, not. One thing in common is heavy regulations in most all of them.

[gejohnston]

25. which have nothing to do with crime

There is no correlation one way or the other. Otherwise why would Vermont, which has no gun laws, in fact had the laxest gun laws until Arizona came along, is much safer than say, New Jersey which has stricter laws than some European countries? Many European have different laws, but on balance may not be stricter. For example most of the licensing schemes are shall issue like many on our CCW (which is easier to get in Germany than New Jersey). On the other hand, there are no magazine capacity like Canada and parts of the US and silencers are legal with no restrictions in at least three countries (their use is encouraged in France, Finland and Norway because of noise pollution). France is the same way. Same is even true with Canada to a lesser degree. For example here you have to be 21 to buy a handgun or handgun ammo and 18 for other, no mail order. In Canada it is 18 to buy any gun, 18 for handgun ammo, 12 for rifle and shotgun, and their licensing scheme allows mail order. But we are talking about UK:

http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/LondonTower2003/NationalExperiences.pdf

http://www.saf.org/journal/16/GunControlinEngland.pdf

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=24

http://www.garymauser.net/pdf/MauserPaper-200611.pdf

[safeinOhio]

26. I think the post implies that strict gun control

is tied to higher crime, as in the case in the UK. My point, as well as yours,I'm guessing is that it has little to do with crime. Just as Vermont has a low crime rate along with liberal gun laws, Alaska is the opposite, liberal gun laws and high gun crime. Many factors and demographics involved in violence. But, if you wish to safely travel, find countries with high gun ownership and strict controls, like registration. I took an unbiased report on safe travel with no gun agenda and looked at the laws of those 10 countries and found a high rate of higher ownership along with safer travel and registration, at least at point of sale. I took the data from sources with no horse in the race when it came to gun laws. But, please feel free to travel anywhere you like. I've travel in many unsafe places and survived by staying away from drugs, alcohol and married women and not acting like I'm wealthy. I have a CCW, but don't carry very much when I go out alone. I do when with loved ones. I may fear for them, me not so much.


edited to say welcome to DU.

[spin]

32. K&R More people need to know Great Britain is not a peaceful paradise ...

because they have strict gun laws.

Theresa May announces extra £18m to tackle knife crime
Announcement comes as report by former EastEnders actor Brooke Kinsella calls for more action to tackle the problem, including anti-knife presentations in schools


More than £18m extra is to be spent on tackling knife crime and gun and gang culture over the next two years, the home secretary, Theresa May, announced today.

She said the funding was being made available "on the back of" a report into knife crime, published today, by former EastEnders actor Brooke Kinsella, whose brother, Ben, was stabbed to death at the age of 16 three years ago.

The report by Kinsella, who was appointed as an adviser on knife crime to the home secretary last year, calls for anti-knife crime presentations in schools and more preventative work to stop teenagers getting involved in knife and gun crime and a scheme to tackle the "fear and fashion factor" of carrying knives.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/02/theresa-may-extra-18m-tackle-knife-crime

[safeinOhio]

33. People need to know that Cyprus is the safest place

to travel.


Cyprus, the third largest island in the Mediterranean Sea, is a destination where personal safety is guaranteed. Despite the conflicts with Turkey that divided the island into the South and the North in the 1970s, Cyprus is one of the safest places in Europe. The crime rate is minimal so you even do not have to lock the door at night.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/cyprus
In Cyprus, only licensed gun owners3 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition

Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Licence
Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in Cyprus are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, hunting, target shooting, collection, personal protection3

Minimum Age for Firearm Possession
The minimum age for gun ownership in Cyprus is 213

Gun Owner Background Checks
An applicant for a firearm licence in Cyprus must pass background checks which consider criminal, mental and domestic violence3 records


Cyprus has a high number of guns and also very restrictive laws. Guns and owners are registered.

[spin]

34. Cyprus does appear to have some nice beaches.

Cyprus' beaches are a major draw for tourists
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3528842.stm

[safeinOhio]

36. Put that gun away

RIGH NOW.

[spin]

37. LOL (n/t)

[Kennah]

40. More Skin, Less Crime - I'm good with that

[spin]

41. Definitely not a puritanical society....

perhaps they understand that sex is more natural than violence.

[oneshooter]

38. WOW!!! No wonder they have so few firearmes in Cyprus!

"The minimum age for gun ownership in Cyprus is 213" Are there ANY live gun owners there?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[safeinOhio]

39. A law that

works.
Must be an older crowd as they have a very high gun ownership rate.

[spin]

42. 213 before you can own a gun. How long do they live?

reminds me of the good old Biblical days when Methuselah made it to 969.

Of course, he didn't eat many processed foods.

[Starboard Tack]

45. You quote the Daily Mail? Paper never refuses ink

Do you assume that nobody in the US is familiar with this ridiculous, shit stirring, right wing "Hate" rag.
http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/

What's next the National Enquirer?

People in the UK actually go to the police to report things, because the police are part of the community. They are not armed and the public are not intimidated by them. There is much greater free speech in the UK, including threatening speech which is often recorded as an assault (violent crime).
You are 100 times more likely to be shot to death in the US