Suspect sought in bar killing

[MyrnaLoy]

"Crayton, a patron at the bar, is accused of confronting Martin and shooting him multiple times outside near the door, Goetschius said."

"Citing the fear of retaliation, police asked The Daily News to withhold the name of a second acquaintance, who ran into the bathroom and held the door to the stall shut with his foot. “Shots came through the door, but missed him,”

http://galvestondailynews.com/story/233442

"police found one man who was shot three times in the back. He was pronounced dead at the scene"

http://galvestondailynews.com/story/233102

Guns in bars doing what they are made to do.

[RSillsbee]

1. How does this anecdotal current events crime story

affect my RKBA?

[baldguy]

3. Every story posted here about some yokel "defending" himself with a gun

is an anecdotal current events crime story.

And if you're exercising your "right to keep and bare arms", I'm sure you're also involved in a "well-regulated militia", right?

[one-eyed fat man]

6. Two things

1) Why do you always conflate a criminal act committed by career criminal carrying a gun illegally with lawful concealed carry by a non criminal? Do you know the difference or merely ignore it? Did you miss the part where the shooter was already wanted in connection with another murder? I suspect he has arrest records going 10 years already.

2)I have one of these:

DD Form 2(ret) (see the sample) I am subject to recall to active duty for life.



What's in your wallet?

[GreenStormCloud]

8. Still beating that dead horse? It is nothing but a skeleton now. N/T

[krispos42]

13. I'm a male between the ages of 17 and 45

So I'm in the well-regulated militia.



The fact that those are the only two requirements to be in the militia are Congress' fault, not mine.

[RSillsbee]

19. How many different ways can we say this

According to the Cornell School of law summary,<43> and the syllabus prepared by the US Supreme Court Recorder of Decisions,<44> in this decision the Supreme Court held:<43><44>

(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.<43><44>

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.<43><44>

(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.<43><44>

And while we're here yes, I did my time , did you?

[rl6214]

27. Still can't get it thru your head what "well regulated militia" means?

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. It doesn't.

Don't be so paranoid.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberal N proud]

4. Now just try and tell me that guns and bars are a good mix

Yet Ohio is going to go forward and allow guns in bars.

:shrug:

[geckosfeet]

7. No one says it's a good mix. But it's a constitutional right and I am emotionally attached

to my right to carry.

And because of that, common sense be damned.

[liberal N proud]

10. I have been told numerous time that there is connection to violence (guns) and bars

Drinking and guns is at least as dangerous as drinking and driving.

You put a gun in the hand of a testosterone filled drunk and a bar fight breaks out, bang! And it will not always be confined to those who are fighting when a gun is involved.

[PavePusher]

12. You do understand that in places that allow firearms in bars and restaurants....

being intoxicated while carrying is still illegal, right?

Do you have evidence that in those states there is a statistically significant problem with otherwise legal (non-criminal) carriers getting drunk (or even staying sober) and commiting crimes in/at/after going to bars?

If so, did the problem increase/decrease/stay the same after any changes to the law?

[liberal N proud]

15. You do realize that is a joke

Right?

[eqfan592]

18. So in other words, no...

...you don't have any statistical evidence. Thanks.

[liberal N proud]

21. There is no evidence that when in a bar fight that...

If someone had a gun they wouldn't pull it so don't give me that statistical shit.

[X_Digger]

22. "don't give me that statistical shit" -- a classic!

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

How often do those who legally carry concealed get into bar fights? Most people I know who carry go out of their way to avoid any kind of confrontation- we know that we'll be under extra scrutiny from the police and prosecutors. Conflict resolution and walking away is part of the curriculum in concealed carry classes here, and I assume elsewhere.

[MyrnaLoy]

24. The reason

they keep demanding that statistical crap is they know (and support) keeping CWP holders secret, therefore the stats aren't available in most states. The reporter covering the story has no access to whether or not the shooter had a permit in most instances. Next time one of the gun forum regulars asks you for statistics ask them if they support a public database of CWP holders. They sit back and claim everything MUST BE drug related because their lists are secret.

You and I know that almost every gun owner starts out as a LEGAL gun owner. CWP holders start out as LEGAL gun owners and THEY DO snap and commit crimes, they are not perfect. Follow any gun story, say a husband shoots his wife, most likey he was a legal gun owner and quite possibly a CWP holder. That will never be in a statistic because the NRA and the gun forum here DOES NOT SUPPORT easy access to the facts, ie a database.

[X_Digger]

25. Meanwhile, here in the real world..

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

So which is it, MyrnaLoy? Are Texas CHL holders just especially sneaky (and therefore don't get caught), do they have special legal-juju that gets them acquitted, or are they buying judges and/or juries? Or is that while TX CHL holders are rather law-abiding, it's the rest of the nations's CHL holders that are the ebil, ebil people?

[one-eyed fat man]

26. You are mistaken

There is a database. It is available to law enforcement. To claim otherwise is either a mistake or a deliberate lie.

You driver's license data and vehicle registration are not all open public records either. Cops have lost their jobs over "running plates" for a buddy who was not entitled access. Just like those databases, the personal information of CWP holders is not normally available to the general public.

License Plate Search

License plate searches, like searching for driver’s licenses, have to be in compliance with the DPPA (Driver’s Privacy Protection Act), which clearly restricts the reasons why someone can have access to information related to a reverse license plate lookup.

Your crazy, mother-stabbing, father raping ex boyfriend should not be able to find your new address by running your car tags on the internet. Likewise he shouldn't know to get a vest and plan to ambush you because your CWP is available too.

[rl6214]

28. Every rapist starts out as a LEGAL penis holder

so we should make a database of every male over the age of 12 just in case.

[aikoaiko]

31. One of the reaons permit list are not available is because newspapers published names/addresses

...because they could.

[aikoaiko]

33. The permit information would be a part of the investigation and would likely be in police reports

Reporters just need to act like reporters and investigate.

[gejohnston]

16. so are you going to take on the cop bar lobby?

[eqfan592]

11. It will continue to be illegal to drink and carry...

...but there is no reason to disallow those who are not drinking (such as a designated driver) to carry when at an establishment serving alcohol. This is something that has been allowed in many other states causing almost no difficulties.

EDIT: Also, I'll point out that there are too many unknowns here to even say if legal CCW in bars was even a factor in this case. Did the shooter have a permit? Was this premeditated? Etc. Too many questions left unanswered yet to tell if an Ohio type law would even be a factor in this shooting.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. Criminals doing what criminals do.

What makes you think that criminals will obey any laws? In Texas guns are already forbidden in any place that gets 51% or more of its income from sale of booze. So this shooter was already breaking the law.

[eqfan592]

14. What evidence is there yet...

...that legal CCW in bars was a factor at all in this? There are far too many questions left unanswered to jump to the sort of conclusions you are.

[Kolesar]

17. Don't worry, they're here

[ileus]

20. Was that gun 21 years of age? could it legally drink?

[petronius]

23. Hope they catch him! Do you want DUers to be on the lookout or something?

:shrug:

[Euromutt]

29. Doesn't Texas have that 51% law?

That is, it's illegal to possess a firearm in an establishment that derives 51% or more of its revenue from sales of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises (not unlike Washington state, where it's illegal to carry in an establishment declared by the Liquor Control Board to be off limits to persons under 21). Which means that the shooter--allegedly Mr. "Big Ant" Crayton--would already have had to have been carrying illegally.

So, if anything, this story illustrates that the kind of person who's liable to pull out a gun in a bar and start shooting people over some trifling affront to his self-image is also the kind of person who isn't likely to obey a law prohibiting carrying in bars in the first place.

For the record, I'm actually in favor of not permitting firearms in bars and other establishments whose primary purpose is consumption of alcoholic beverages, but this kind of story is not evidence that allowing licensed concealed carry (I rather suspect "Big Ant" was prohibited from possessing a firearm at all, and certainly didn't have a CHL) in bars will inevitably lead to blood mingling with the peanut shells.

[oneshooter]

30. Yes it is Texas. The law only effects CHL holders. It does nothing about illegal possession in bars...

[Euromutt]

32. By which you mean...

...that if an individual is already carrying illegally, there is no additional penalty for doing so in a place where it would be illegal to carry even if you did have a CHL?

That's well fucked up. That's akin to not being able to charge an unlicensed joy-rider with all the moving violations he committed while illegally driving the car.