(London) Met police Tasered man carrying toy gun on train

[alp227]

Metropolitan police officers fired a Taser nine times at a man sitting on a train in the belief he was carrying a weapon in his briefcase.

The use of Tasers on a train comes as the commissioner of the Met police, Bernard Hogan-Howe, faces questions over his suggestion that more of his officers should be armed with the weapons.

Hogan-Howe said this week he wanted to see more Tasers in response cars and Scotland Yard has confirmed work is going on to review the availability of Tasers for its officers.

Hogan-Howe was challenged about his statement about Tasers by members of the Metropolitan Police Authority on Thursday.

full: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/24/met-police-tasered-man-toy-gun

[Abin Sur]

1. A 99 pence toy gun! Oh, the horror....

(more from the story)

The father of two said he had been sitting on the train when he first saw officers. "I was sitting near an elderly English man and I asked if I could read his FT. I was sitting reading the FT when these four officers rushed on to the carriage.

"Someone sitting by me raised his hands and said: 'I've done nothing wrong.' I saw everyone in the carriage leaving, and I picked up my briefcase and paper to get up to leave.

"The police shouted: 'Sit down.' So I sat down patiently. They said: 'Open your briefcase,' which I did. They saw the toy gun. Then a male police officer opened fire with a gun which jammed.

"So then they jumped at me and used the Taser four times at my chest. That did not have any effect, I felt no current. They then held me down, grabbed on to my head and pinned me down and shot me in the back of the head with the Taser three times and I felt the current.

"They tied my legs and took me off the train to the platform."

Scotland Yard denied any other firearm had been used.

Livingstone said he was taken to a police station in Victoria where he claims officers made fun of what he was wearing – a long trench coat and black hat. He was stripped naked, he said, and refused access to a lawyer.

[RSillsbee]

2. Did I read that right?

They saw the toy gun. Then a male police officer opened fire with a gun which jammed.

I don't even know what to say to that. The cop saw the toy gun and w/out out further thought started shooting?

IDK maybe people in England (at least the cops)shouldn't have guns

[ileus]

3. rude fake toter...

[BiggJawn]

4. They're getting sort of strange in the UK.

Saw a story in the Daily Fail about a chef who was asked for ID when he bought 2 lines. the explanation was that he could squeeze the lime juice in somebody's face as a WEAPON and temporarily blind them.

Then there's the tale of the fellow who's going to prison for owning "illegal" air rifles. What makes them illegal? The muzzle velocity. It was in excess of 850 FPS.

I have 2 rifles that smoke 'em at 1,000 FPS. I call them my "Illegal in Britain" air rifles...

I think their gene pool is drying up...

[Union Scribe]

5. Sadly they're so used to the boot on their throat

that anything which seems like a free breath scares the hell out of them.

[spin]

6. Which amazes me as at one time the sun never set on the British empire ...

American citizens also often legally carry pocket knives in public which would be illegal in the UK unless required at a person's job.

Possession of Blades/Points

Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 prohibits the possession in a public place of any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed, (including a folding pocket knife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62cm/3 inches) (Archbold 24-125).

Section 139A of the 1988 Act extends the geographical scope of both of the above offences to school premises.

For the purposes of sections 139 and 139A of the Act:

a butterknife, with no cutting edge and no point is a bladed article; (Booker v DPP 169J.P. 368, DC);
a screwdriver is not a bladed article; (R v Davis <1998> Crim L.R. 564 CA);
a "lock knife" does not come into the category of "folding pocket knife" because it is not immediately foldable at all times; (R v Deegan <1998> 2 Cr. App. R. 121 CA).
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a09

[rrneck]

7. As I recall there is an old Irish truism that goes

"The sun never sets on England because god wouldn't trust an Englishman in the dark."

[oneshooter]

13. The Titanic "It took an Irishman to build her, and an Englishman to sink her" n/t

[BiggJawn]

8. Indiana prohibits switchblade knives

And "Chinese throwing stars".
There used to be a limitation on blade length, but it's been repealed.

Like the UK, no knives at school, either.

[spin]

9. Florida law on knives is somewhat ambiguous ...

However I have a Florida Concealed Weapons Permit which allows me to carry a variety of "weapons" concealed.

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—
(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). ..emphasis added
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/790.06

I don't consider a knife to be a weapon. To me it is a tool. I normally carry a fully serrated Spyderco Endura with a 4" blade for tougher jobs in a pocket of my cargo pants and a fixed blade knife for tasks such as food prep.


Spyderco Endura

I carry the fixed blade knife openly in the small rural town of Florida where I live and it attracts no attention. However if I journey to a more urban area such as Tampa I carry a neck knife under my shirt. Florida police have little understanding of the knife law and I prefer not to attract negative attention from either the city cops or the citizens who are unfamiliar with the open carry of a fixed blade knife.

One fixed blade that I often carry is a BRKT Classic Lite Hunter with a 4" blade



My neck knife is a BRKT Bravo Necker II, the larger of the two knifes in the picture. It has a 3.5" blade.



As I said, I view a knife as a tool. For a self defense weapon, I carry a S&W Model 642 .38 in a pocket holster.



Switch blades are interesting knives and not illegal to carry in Florida. I own one but I never carry it as I see no real advantages to its design. Knifes and concealed weapons are illegal on school grounds.

[BiggJawn]

10. Only firearms in Indiana

You want to carry a knife, pepper spray, expandable batons, shillelagh, piece of lead pipe, it's all good, just need a permit to carry a handgun. Switchblades and throwing stars are forbidden under any circumstances.
The switchblade law was enacted in 1956. I was surprised to see it still on the books since Danny Zuko and the rest of the T-Birds are now in their 70's...

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Fixed blades are illegal in Seattle.

Knife regulations across the country are probably the only more fucked up and variable thing, than firearm regulations.

[spin]

12. That's the truth. (n/t)

[oneshooter]

14. And some on DU want that type of laws, and law enforcement. n/t