GUNS OF THE DAY - APRIL 9, 2004

[Superfly]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
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8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[Superfly]

1. Historic gun of the day...

Today, we look at the Mauser bolt action rifle. The Mauser action is the one by which all other bolt actions are measured today. Designed in the latter half of the 19th century, the Mauser saw action up to and including WWII. Today, authentic Mausers are collectors items. The finest rifle I ever saw was my friend's custom 30-06 built on an Ash wood stock (Weatherby sillhouette) with a Mauser '98 action.

But, here is a Mauser Gewehr 98 in 8mm:

[Endangered Specie]

58. Nice...

Bolt actions are the best in my opinion.

[demsrule4life]

2. Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 Govt

I find it a very versatile weapon. Can be loaded light for target practice, loaded to it's medium specs for deer and boar size game, and loaded heavy for the largest game in Africa.

[enfield collector]

10. I tried to post a picture of my FN-FAL but couldn't get it

to work, how do you do it?

[Superfly]

11. Is it on a website?

The just right click and copy the URL to your reply here.

[Township75]

3. St. Helena teen shoots, kills mountain lion, saves his life with a gun

. Helena teen shoots, kills mountain lion
Thursday, April 8, 2004

By Mike Lynch
EDITOR

Just 11 days prior to the scheduled date of a special educational workshop in Franz Valley on mountain lions, a Napa County youth has shot and killed one of the animals.

Andy White, 14, said that for a moment on Tuesday morning, he thought he was going to be the main course in a mountain lion's breakfast. Instead, the 14-year-old St. Helena High School student was able to shoot the cat three times, killing the 63-pound animal on a remote hillside near his grandparents' home on Chiles Pope Valley Road in northwest Napa County.

"I was scared to death. It was only about three feet from me. It took a swipe at me with its paw," said the teenager, standing near the bloodied body of the cat. "I thought it was going to kill me. I saw it and just froze."

Initial reports didn't give the animals age or gender. But according the Department of Fish and Game, adult males can be more than 8 feet long, from nose to end of tail, and generally weigh between 130 and 150 pounds. Adult females can be 7 feet long and weigh between 65 and 90 pounds.

http://www.napanews.com/star/templates/index.cfm?template=story_full&id=3F2D0099-287C-4759-B6FF-8C7A9BFD36F0

[Superfly]

4. While I say kudos to the kid...

I always hate to see predators like this destroyed. They are a vital part of the ecosystem and the loss of even one can upset the balance in an area, at least for a short time. Besides, mountain lions are absolutely beautiful creatures...

[Township75]

7. I agree with your statement...

it is a shame that the kid needed to kill an animal other than what he set out to hunt with that day. However, according to the article:

Jesse Keiser, a Department of Fish and Game warden, said the story offered by White and his friend Smeding appears to check out.

"Based on my findings so far, the boys' account of what happened appears to be legitimate and that they were acting in self-defense. At this point, there is nothing to lead me to think otherwise," Keiser said.

So if that is the case, then there were likely 2 outcomes: dead kid or dead lion. Both are a shame, but I don't know of anyone who would take the dead kid over the dead lion.

[Superfly]

9. Definitely...

What's worse are the stories you hear of predation on humans that results in the loss of life of both the person and animal. I do not think that an animal that has tasted human flesh "lusts for it", and will continue to hunt and kill humans. A hungry predator will hunt prey items, and that includes us.

What comes immediately to mind is the story of that bear on Kodiak Island that killed 2 "scientists" last year. While I place the blame of that incident squarely on the shoulders of the people, the bear was destroyed because it was hanging around the site of its kill and was exhibiting aggressive behaviour...in other words, just being a bear.

On an island with a population density of less than 1 person per square mile, I believe that relocation efforts or humans just un-assing the area could have saved the life of that bear, and it would have been incredibly unlikely that another human would even cross paths with the bear.

[CO Liberal]

20. Please Do Not Change The Story Headline

In order for these threads to be an accurate portrayal of how gun-related issues are covered in the press, please refrain from changing the title in any way. I make this request for all stories - both pro-gun and anti-gun.

Thank you.

[Township75]

22. Will do....My bad.

.

[Township75]

5. The gun of the day is the SAS M-7 in 7.62 mm

featuring a fixed under folding butt stock and US made authentic design black polymer furniture.

[demsrule4life]

6. This pic should be rated

XXX as gun porn. :)

[Township75]

8. LOL!

!

[FeebMaster]

14. It's a post-ban

maybe it should just be NC-17. :)

[MrSandman]

39. Not with the standard cap mag

on edit: *Rated NC17

[Young Socialist]

49. whether it takes stock mags or not has nothing to do with the ban, the

ban halted manufacture of hi-caps for the civilian market only. it's perfectly legal to make a gun that takes hi-caps and perfectly legal to sell hi-caps made before sept 94. actually standard cap in the case of the AK since 30 is standard capacity for them. the AWB should be re-named the AWPB, Assualt Weapon Promotion Bill, since all it has done is sucede is swamping the market with "post-ban" versions of the originals at lower cost.

[MrSandman]

50. That is the reason for edit...

we can't rate these scary pre-ban mags as NC 17.

I think the AWB should have been titled the semi-automatic rifle ban. Or scary-looking semi-auto rifle ban. It did as intended, it set a precedent for banning weapons based on form.

I would say the semi-auto ban has also helped increase the number of large caliber(over 9 mm) hand guns. If wondernines are limited to 11 shots, better a .45, .40, or 10mm with 9 or 10 rounds.

[Young Socialist]

31. nice, I especially like them with the black

furniture. I built a PMKMS (Polish AK47) underfolder from a kit and made my own receiver. right now the stock is pinned open per ATF guidelines, but come september I'll restore it to its former glory.

[MrBenchley]

12. Gun Found In Airport Bathroom (OH)

"A gun was found in a bathroom at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport Thursday night, reported NewsChannel5.
City officials say the gun belonged to a federal air marshal. They do not know which terminal it was found in, or whether it was a men's or women's restroom.
A passenger found the gun, and promptly turned it into authorities.
NewsChannel5 spoke with the mayor's press secretary, Celeste Glasgow, who said that this kind of carelessness is "unacceptable". "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040409/lo_wews/2088091

Homeland Security in action...

[MrSandman]

59. U.S. Air Marshal Forgets Gun in Restroom

CLEVELAND -- A federal air marshal accidentally left her gun in a restroom at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, an airport spokeswoman said Friday.

A passenger found the semiautomatic handgun Thursday and notified an airport employee. The employee then told airport police, who secured the weapon, said the spokeswoman, Pat Smith.

"They later found it belonged to a federal air marshal who apparently was using the restroom and put it up on the shelf while she was washing her hands and forgot about it," Smith said.


http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-brf-airport-gun,0,2925503.story

Of course the Air Marshals are highly trained professionals:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

13. Other states also defend use of databases to track gun buyers

You might recall a bunch of localities are also in open revolt against the Patriot Act, and that a number more are in open revolt against the "No Child Left Behind" farce...

Last time I can recall this sort of dispute, it was Southern states trying to keep black students out of colleges and black patrons out of restuarants. And it was settled by Kennedy and Johnson sending the National Guard to enforce civil rights laws, to the approval of most decent people.

Wonder what the Chimp and AssKKKroft will do for the gun lobby?

"Illinois is not alone among states worrying that a federal clampdown on their use of gun-buyer records could thwart cops from catching criminals.
Last month, California Attorney General Bill Lockyer wrote Ashcroft criticizing the Justice Department for ordering the state to stop using the National Instant Criminal Background Checks System to identify people barred from owning guns.
"We find this restriction to be contrary to public and officer safety," Lockyer wrote.
California, Oregon, Michigan, Maryland, Connecticut and Wisconsin have approved laws allowing them to hold on to the records, said Abby Ottenhoff, a Blagojevich spokeswoman. Illinois does not have such a law, but Blagojevich will seek legislation to keep the data for 10 years, she said."

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-gun09.html

[DonP]

24. The Feds should send in troops again?

To once again force the states to obey the Federal law they are violating?

"And it was settled by Kennedy and Johnson sending the National Guard to enforce civil rights laws, to the approval of most decent people."

I'm kind of surprised that you want Ashcroft to send troops in to Springfield Illinois to force the destruction of these illegally retained records, but OK, if you insist.

[MrBenchley]

25. Too TOO funny...

Gee, don, do you think the disgraceful racist gun rights champion AssKKKroft will?

[MrBenchley]

15. 19-Year-Old Girl Shot By Robber (FL)

"Police have released a description of a car they think a man who shot a 19-year-old girl may have fled in.
Janelle Delgado, was coming home on Northwest 22nd Court Wednesday night when someone in a passing car tried to rob her, police say. When she fought back, she was shot in the stomach, according to investigators. She is in critical condition.
Delgado's father says someone out there knows who pulled the trigger.
"For this to take place is horrendous. And I know that somebody out in the community knows who these people are. And I know in their heart that if they're a parent, like myself, they're going to come forward and put these individuals where they belong," Nelson Delgado said. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040409/lo_wplg/2087018

Or, if they're part of the gun rights crowd, they're going to do all they can to make sure the guy who shot her can get more firepower and doesn't end up in any database.

[demsrule4life]

16. Nah, just to damn bad she isn't old

enough for a CCW. I can hear the cries now how that would of stepped up the violence of the act.

[MrBenchley]

17. Men Shot While Leaving Liquor Store (MI)

"Two men were shot as they walked out the door of a liquor store on Detroit's east side around 9 p.m. Thursday.
The shooter fled the scene of the Cognac Castle on Harper, according to Local 4. The victims reportedly went back inside the store. One of the men suffered a gunshot wound to the chest and died at the scene, the station reported.
"He dropped dead in the store," Mike Alsiamer, a store clerk, said. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040409/lo_wdiv/2088149

[MrBenchley]

18. Jury finds man guilty of double murder (IN)

"Jurors convicted two men late Thursday in connection with the killing of a cross-dressing teen and his female friend.
When Paul Moore's sexuality was threatened after an intimate encounter with a person he believed was a woman, prosecutors say, he gunned down Brandie Coleman, 18, and Gregory Johnson, 17. Johnson dressed as a woman and answered to the name Nireah.
Moore, 21, was found guilty of two counts of murder, two counts of criminal confinement and arson. His half brother Clarence McGee, 26, was convicted of arson, assisting a criminal and obstruction of justice. The men are scheduled for sentencing on May 5."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/136423-5104-009.html

[MrBenchley]

19. Robber holds up convenience store (AZ)

"A masked man wielding a shotgun robbed a Kachina Village convenience store early Thursday morning.
Detective Mike Sifling of the Coconino County Sheriff's Office said sheriff's deputies were called out to the Kachina Village Pick N Run, located just off Interstate 17, at approximately 12:05 a.m.
Sifling said interviews with the three employees at the store revealed that one employee was taking trash out to a Dumpster at the store when he was approached by the man wielding the shotgun.
"He instructed that employee to return inside the store," Sifling said. "

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=85168

[MrBenchley]

21. Lake Worth man killed in back yard (FL)

"Lake Worth · Police are looking for a man who they say shot and killed a 25-year-old Lake Worth man in his back yard Thursday night.
Jose Collazo, 18, shot Francisco Martinez once in the chest with a semi-automatic pistol in the 600 block of South E Street about 6:40 p.m., Sgt. Ed Riddle said. Martinez died in his yard.
Neighbors watched and family members embraced as workers from the Medical Examiner's Office removed Martinez's body, clad only in a pair of pants and shoes, from under a palm tree more than two hours after the shooting. "

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pdead09apr09,0,713133.story?coll=sfla-news-palm

[MrBenchley]

23. Man who police say approached girl had rifle, knife (MN)

"SUN PRAIRIE (AP) -- A man who approached a Sun Prairie girl, causing her to flee in fright, was arrested later with a rifle and large knife in his car, along with stuffed animals, candy, handcuffs and electrical wire, a criminal complaint shows.
The complaint filed Thursday charged John A. Strudell, 41, of Sun Prairie with eluding police, refusing to obey police, endangering safety and two counts of carrying a concealed weapon.
Those charges stemmed from a chase and his arrest in Madison Monday night.
Another criminal complaint was expected to be filed Friday, said Dane County Assistant District Attorney Jac Heitz. Strudell was scheduled to appear Friday in Circuit Court."

http://www.chippewa.com/articles/2004/04/09/news/news2.txt

[MrBenchley]

26. Former Omaha police officer sues gun manufacturer for malfunction

"OMAHA, Neb. - A former police officer has filed a lawsuit against a major gun manufacturer, claiming he was injured in a fight with robbery suspects because his gun malfunctioned.
Jeffrey Holland said he resorted to biting, punching and kicking after his Glock gun failed him and he was faced with two would-be robbers.
Holland claims his gun was disabled after it was hit by a bullet during the March 2000 incident at a branch of the Great Western Bank. He claims he wouldn't have been shot the second and third times had his gun worked properly. A bullet struck just below his heart.
The lawsuit, filed last week in U.S. District Court, names Glock as the defendant."

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/8396410.htm

[Wubbman]

28. What?

So this happened 4 years ago, and he is only suing now? What part of "Virtually Indestructable" did he not understand? Nothing is completely indestructable. Please post a follow up on this, Mr. B. I'd be interested to see how it turns out.

[MrBenchley]

29. What part of "Virtually Indestructable" did he not understand?

Sounds like the part he didn't understand was that Glock was lying....

[Wubbman]

30. TOO too funny...

So, Glock said their pistol would never, ever, ever break or malfunction?

[demsrule4life]

32. I think that the word "Virtually"

says it all.

[MrBenchley]

35. In fact or to all purposes; practically

Except when it refers to guns, in which case it seems to mean to the RKBA crowd, "what kind of idiot is this policeman?"

[MrBenchley]

34. Gee, wubbman

what part of "virtually indestructible" do YOU not understand?

But hey, Glock is a gun manufacturer, so of course they must be fucking saints beyond all criticism or blame...

[Wubbman]

40. HA HA HA-you're pissed

To have waited four years since the incident makes it look totally illegitimate. Virtually indestructable means just that- virtually indestructable. Mr. B, even you should know that bullets tend to damage the things they hit, including other guns.

[MrBenchley]

41. Hahahahaha...I had you pegged....

"To have waited four years since the incident makes it look totally illegitimate."
Sez you...but consider the source.

[Wubbman]

42. Pegged...

He waited four years since his gun was shot and malfunctioned to sue Glock. If this didn't involve guns, you'd think it was bullshit along with the rest of us.

[MrBenchley]

43. Pegged...

[demsrule4life]

33. Virtually does not equal totally

and Glock does not use that word. Hmmmmm wonder who is lying. And hell of all people I thought you would rejoice if a pistol didnt work, no matter who was using it.

[MrBenchley]

36. Gee, dems...you mean you think a cop is lying?

Hmmm, lets see, who's lying....

"GLOCK pistols are the perfect combination of reliability and accuracy. Their high-tech engineering and construction create a handgun that can stand up to more punishment than even the most unforgiving conditions can generate. ...The frame on a GLOCK handgun is made out of a synthetic that is actually stronger than steel, yet 86% lighter. It's virtually indestructible. ...The metal components on a GLOCK are practically indestructible."

http://www.tulsafirearms.com/online-catalog/firearms/firearms-glock.htm

"GLOCK pistols are the perfect combination of reliability and accuracy. Their high-tech engineering and construction create a handgun that can stand up to more punishment than even the most unforgiving conditions can generate....The frame on a GLOCK handgun is made out of a synthetic that is actually stronger than steel, yet 86% lighter. It's virtually indestructible. ...The metal components on a GLOCK are practically indestructable."

http://www.glock.com/advantage.htm

Dems: "Glock does not use that word."

[FeebMaster]

37. Where does it say

Glocks will keep working even after being hit by bullets?

[MrBenchley]

38. Try clicking on the link at that quiz you love, feeb

Maybe it will tell you there what to say when somebody claims Glock doesn't use a phrase that occurs right in its advertising.

[FeebMaster]

47. What the hell are you talking about?

The political quiz I linked didn't mention Glocks as far as I remember.

[MrBenchley]

52. Guess, feeb....

[FeebMaster]

55. I wouldn't want to put words into your mouth. (nt)

[demsrule4life]

44. I bet they would work after being covered in bullshit test

Have you noticed how indigent MrB acts that glocks are having some problems.? Just where does he stand.

[MrBenchley]

45. You would know, dems...

the bullshit seems to be thick and feculent in your vicinity....

[demsrule4life]

46. Such fancy words, been takin lessons?

In any armed conflict there is a danger of your gun being hit by gunfire and being put out of service. It has been documented since the first days of combat using firearms. Well maybe Glock embellishes to much on their product and might cost them in court, but what a hard case to prove. Also folks the lesson here is allways carry a back up.

[MrSandman]

48. One gun is none...

and two guns are one?

[MrBenchley]

51. I don't hang out with ignorant right wing yokels.....

in a backwoods shithole...it does wonders for the vocabulary and general mental acuteness...

"Also folks the lesson here is allways carry a back up"
So now that your claim that Glock doesn't use the word "indestructible" has been shown for the steaming pile that it is, what's YOUR backup?

[demsrule4life]

53. A Colt .45

I always carry two. And I will try to explain it one more time. I will try to keep it simple for you. I'm in AL because we received orders from the Govt to be here. I was not born here, I was not raised here and at the end of the year when my wife gets orders again we will leave here. I just think it is a hoot that you have never been here but you think you are a fucking expert on how people live their lives here. I have an idea, why dont you come down here and talk your shit? I would like to see if your balls are as big in person as they are as an internet tough guy.

On edit

While you are down here you will need some money. I wonder how many of these back water jobs you would be qualified for?

http://www.federaljobsearch.com/loc/5_1.asp?cid=0&tid=10438045&em=

[MrBenchley]

56. Jeeze, dems...next ask me if I care.

"I just think it is a hoot that you have never been here but you think you are a fucking expert on how people live their lives here."
I think it's an even bigger hoot that you have no idea whether I've ever been to the redneck riviera or not. And I think it's even funnier that you don't seem to know that Alabama has a worldwide reputation as a right wing shithole.

"I would like to see if your balls are as big in person as they are as an internet tough guy. "
Jeeze, and yet I don't have to skulk to church carrying a gun....

[MrSandman]

60. These indestructable Glocks...

Aren't the ones in all the police accidents are they?

[MrBenchley]

61. You mean you're surprised a gun manufacturer is lying, sandman?

Especially one headed by a supporter of neoNazi Jorg Haider?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/austria/article/0%2C2763%2C430281%2C00.html

Scummy lot of playmates the RKBA crowd has....

[MrSandman]

64. I'm surprised anyone would believe indestructible...

A gun of which the warranty can be voided by using once-fired brass.

BTW, was that where you heard about the taggants in European smokeless powder?

[demsrule4life]

62. You should care a little

There is a black guy here in Huntsville. He is a repug activist. Has a autographed photo of Mr and Mrs chimp and is proud to show it off. He uses your Alabama postings for trying to convert people from Dem to Rep. He has had some success. But I know you don't care. Also for your info, the only people I "hang out" with is right here on DU.

[MrBenchley]

63. Gee, dems...

Maybe you should show them all your pro-Democratic postings...oh wait, you never make any.

"He has had some success. "
Yeah....I'm sure they don't mind that Trent Lott and David Duke are Republicans...

You know, it's funny, there's a hip white guy up here who used to think gun rights was one of these causes that cut across party lines...but after reading the idiotic rantings and constant lying of the RKBA crowd here, he's begun to think nobody but the furthest out right wing loonies are pushing that crap.

[Wubbman]

65. Might that guy be you?-nt

[MrBenchley]

66. Nope...

[MrBenchley]

27. Bettendorf teen's gun charge dropped (IA)

"A 14-year-old boy accused of bringing a semi-automatic handgun to Bettendorf High School told police he only wanted to point it at another student who had threatened him, according to court records filed Thursday.
Trenton Eyman of Bettendorf told police “he had been threatened by another student and was going to point it at him and run if confronted,” police officer Bruce Schwarz said in an affidavit filed in district court.
The teen still faces one charge in juvenile court of carrying a weapon on school grounds, a Class D felony punishable by sentences ranging from probation to up to five years in a juvenile detention center."

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1026730&t=Local+News&c=2,1026730

[Frodo_Baggins]

54. Good thing the charges are dropped (nt)

nt

[MrSandman]

57. Quick Thinking Clerk Foils Robber's Plan(AL)

Apr. 9 - A robbery suspect tells police his attempt to hold up a convenience store was an April Fool's joke.

Police say Donnie Dwain Shankle tried to rob the Freeway Beverage Store on Highway 24. He walked up to the counter with a case of beer, pulled out a gun and demanded money.

Witnesses say a store employee pulled out his gun. That's when Shankle quickly told the clerk he was just kidding. Shankle is charged with first degree robbery.

http://www.waff.com/Global/story.asp?S=1774217

Another thug off the street:)

[MrSandman]

67. It's a...