A Round Of Shots

[Wonk]

(from TDSWJS last night)

1 M mp3

13 M vp3
Opens with QuickTime Player

If booze causes problems, and guns solve problems, then having guns in bars should solve more problems than it creates, right? :+

This is about Senate Bill 1210 in Arizona, proposed by Randy Graf (R), for those who can't download either file.




http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0509polinsider09.html

(snip)

The good news: The Legislature's bill to allow guns in bars and nightclubs is about to enter the national spotlight.

The not-so-good news, at least for Rep. Randy Graf and other sponsors of Senate Bill 1210: It will be the Daily Show with Jon Stewart shining that spotlight.

A crew from Comedy Central's hilarious mock news program flew in from New York City this week to interview Graf, R-Green Valley, and House Minority Leader John Loredo, D-Phoenix, a vocal critic of the bill.

more...

[MrBenchley]

1. We've got it TiVo'd

Can't wait to see it....

[mosin]

9. As usual, I watched the repeat at 7pm...

They ignored the fact that the bill doesn't deal exclusively with bars, but that didn't stop the segment from being hysterical.

[mosin]

2. The Daily Show

I saw the preview for that spot last night. I'm sure I'll enjoy it, as always.

But I strongly support the bill they're ridiculing. Arizona currently has the same type of law as Ohio. We can't carry concealed firearms into any establishment that is selling drinks for on-premises comsumption. That includes Longhorn, Applebee's, and just about any restaurant other than fast food -- or Perkins! So even if I don't drink -- which I hardly ever do -- I can't defend my family in most restaurants. That is unacceptable.

I would support a law that treated carrying like driving is treated in Ohio. No drinking while carrying -- period -- and no carrying while under the influence.

Texas has a 51% rule to try to separate bars from restaurants. If 51% of the revenue comes from sales of alcohol, you can't carry there. 50% or less and you're OK.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

3. Just a quick question

(You may remember me as the Moderate Anti-gun from a different thread..)

As you see I'm NOT saying I'm OPPOSED to this bill (so maybe I'm not as anti- as I first appeared..)

But again, since I've never owned, carried, or shot a gun, WHY does ANYone need to carry a gun INTO Applebees or The LastShot Saloon?

[iverglas]

4. heavens to betsy!

WHY does ANYone need to carry a gun INTO
Applebees or The LastShot Saloon?

Because there are evil crazy people just waiting to walk in and shoot you! of course.

Forgive me if that doesn't sound like a good answer. You might wonder how having a firearm in your purse/pocket is going to help if you are (or your kid is ...) the first person the evil/crazy person shoots in the head. But I'm afraid this is the only answer I've ever seen.

.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

6. I See Evil People

.. they're everywhere.

They just don't know they're evil..

.. but IIIIiiii do.... <wink>

[mosin]

7. Carrying guns

I apologize if my earlier remarks were a bit smart. I should be more diplomatic. :hug:

I carry a gun every day, even though I've never personally had need for one. I've also never needed the fire extinguishers I have on every floor in the house, nor have I ever filed a claim on our homeowner's insurance. I view them all in the same way. I hope I never have need for any of them.

Unfortunately, just as most auto accidents occur close to home -- because that's where you are most of the time -- you are most likely to need to defend yourself at some mundane environment close to home. That could be Applebee's. That could be Longhorn Steak House. That could be Chipotle, "la casa de Big-Ass Burritos," which is sort of fast food, but serves margaritas and XX beer.

I almost never drink when I'm out, but I'm still legally prohibited from carrying a firearm in these locations. To me, that's the equivalent of saying you can't drive to or home from any restaurant with a liquor license. We need to tie the crime to the injurious behavior: drinking and carrying or drinking and driving.

And don't think that nothing happens in upscale restaurants. This was a few years ago at a nice restaurant a few miles from my house: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/11/25/loc_two_shot_in_upscale.html. I'll never forget the incident because my wife and I had celebrated my birthday there the previous weekend.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

10. Holster on hip, or under the jacket?

Hi mosin, sorry but if you WERE trying to offend me in the previous post, I was oblivious!! I thought you were just being matter of fact in your perceptions of my question, nothing more!

Thanks for your response here.

I UNDERSTAND that there is a possibility of 'needing a gun' but to carry one 'every day' (and please I'm not being disrespectful here) sounds a bit on the paranoid side. (Hey, who am I to mention paranoia, I think they're talking about me when they huddle in the football games! <wink>)

I don't SAY you should not and would never start a campaign against you or others to STOP.. I'm just trying to understand the mindset.

As I've mentioned before, I've never owned, carried, or fired a gun. However, I DO like the privilege of being able to do so IF I ever felt the need. (Hence why I guess I'm the moderate anti-gun.. I see them as possible necessary 'evils' but not a necessary accoutrement to my daily ensemble!).

[mosin]

15. IWB holster, usually under jacket

I have three carry guns for different attire and weather. I usually carry a Glock 23 in a leather inside-the-waistband (IWB) holster at about the 4 o'clock position on my right hip. I can cover it with a jacket or an untucked shirt.

I also have a Glock 27 that I occasionally carry in a tuckable Kydex (plastic) IWB holster or in a leather ankle holster. The ankle holster works very well with boot cut jeans or loose slacks. My wife has taken to carrying this one more than I do, though.

Finally, I have a tiny new Kahr PM40 that I carry in a pocket holster. It's for shorts and t-shirt weather. I'm not sure if I want to let my wife shoot this one. :) She might decide she likes it too, and I blew my accumulated gun budget -- $550 -- on it. I don't have the money right away to buy another one.

Actually, I'm probably the least paranoid, least fearful person I know. I just grew up with guns in Texas. Wearing a gun feels as natural as wearing pants.

(But, maybe they are talking about you when they huddle?)

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

16. Interesting...

"(But, maybe they are talking about you when they huddle?)"

Hence why I DONT carry a gun to football games!

" I just grew up with guns in Texas. Wearing a gun feels as natural as wearing pants."

And with me living my first 39 years in Alabama and can say I've never owned, carried, or fired a gun... I definitely cause many people to walk away mumbling and scratching their heads.

I'm still at a complete loss to the fascination you and others have, but who knows.. maybe one day it'll come to me. ("water helen water")

[iverglas]

14. well, ya know what the Newfie did when s/he heard this

Unfortunately, just as most auto accidents occur close to home -- because that's where you are most of the time -- you are most likely to need to defend yourself at some mundane environment close to home.

Moved, that's what. More sensible than some "solutions" I've heard.


I carry a gun every day, even though I've never personally had need for one. I've also never needed the fire extinguishers I have on every floor in the house, nor have I ever filed a claim on our homeowner's insurance. I view them all in the same way. I hope I never have need for any of them.

Whoa, remind me not to hang out with you. If your use of a fire extinguisher -- let alone your having an insurance policy! -- is "the same" as the use of a firearm, you must be someone to avoid. I mean, everything you do has the potential of killing an innocent bystander??


I'm still legally prohibited from carrying a firearm in these locations. To me, that's the equivalent of saying you can't drive to or home from any restaurant with a liquor license.

Have you considered getting some instruction in the concept of "equivalence", and the art of constructing analogies ... or even just answering the questions I have asked in that regard?

Do you promise to paint your firearm dayglo orange and carry it on a pole over your head, so that I and everyone else within range knows when you're carrying it, just as we know when you're behind the wheel of a moving car?


And don't think that nothing happens in upscale restaurants. This was a few years ago at a nice restaurant a few miles from my house: ...

Yes ... but where are the tales of restaurant patrons being killed by fire extinguishers and insurance policies?


The magical thinking never ceases to amaze me. The day when some crazed/criminal person opens fire in the restaurant where I am sitting with my family, *we* will not be the ones killed. Nooo ... I'll be the hero who takes him/her down after s/he kills some other unfortunates who never got the chance to draw.

People who have actually experienced this kind of loss (well, the ones who aren't actually dead), on the other hand, have a remarkable tendency to favour measures to prevent crazed/criminal/drunk people from having access to firearms.

Just a funny phenomenon, I guess.

.

[mosin]

17. "magical thinking"

Yes ... but where are the tales of restaurant patrons being killed by fire extinguishers and insurance policies?

There have been exactly as many people killed by my fire extinguishers and my insurance policies as by my guns. Guess how many that is?

The magical thinking never ceases to amaze me. The day when some crazed/criminal person opens fire in the restaurant where I am sitting with my family, *we* will not be the ones killed. Nooo ... I'll be the hero who takes him/her down after s/he kills some other unfortunates who never got the chance to draw.

I have two responses to this. First, it has nothing to do with magic. It has everything to do with training. I have extensive advanced firearms training, and I take as much additional training in an average year as an Ohio police officer.

Second, I have no desire to "be the hero." That's the job of the police. I only want to protect my family. If a madman is running through a restaurant shooting people, my only concern is going to be getting my family out of the restaurant or into a defensible location -- in a bathroom or behind an overturned table.

People who have actually experienced this kind of loss (well, the ones who aren't actually dead), on the other hand, have a remarkable tendency to favour measures to prevent crazed/criminal/drunk people from having access to firearms.

Actually, many victims of crime or their families have exactly the opposite reaction from what you describe. It depends entirely on their personalities. For every victim who becomes an anti-gun crusader, another victim swears "Never again!"

[Wonk]

18. Do you carry a fire extinguisher with you when you're going out

for dinner with your family or out to a club or bar?

Just curious.

[FeebMaster]

19. Clubs and bars have their own.

Fire code and all that.

[Wonk]

20. Fire codes and all that...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/21/deadly.nightclub.fire/

[FeebMaster]

21. Right. A fire extinguisher would have been a big help there. (nt)

[mosin]

22. There's a small one in the trunk...

with the first aid kit, but it would be a bit bulky to carry around. And as was pointed out, most public places provide fire extinguishers.

I do take my insurance with me when I go out: life insurance, health insurance, disability income insurance, homeowner's insurance, auto insurance, and general liability coverage.

[iverglas]

5. so I guess ...

I would support a law that treated carrying like driving is treated in Ohio. No drinking while carrying -- period -- and no carrying while under the influence.

... this would mean that everybody carrying a firearm has to maybe paint it dayglo orange and carry it on a pole over his/her head?

I mean, we need to make sure that this motor vehicle : firearm analogy is actually fair and square, eh? Until drunk drivers acquire cloaking devices, I don't think it would be fair for firearms toters to have 'em. And if the firearms toters had the cloaking device (let's call it "a jacket"), how would carrying a firearm be "like" driving a motor vehicle?

Lemme ask you too: slipped a Volvo under your jacket lately?


So even if I don't drink -- which I hardly ever do -- I can't defend my family in most restaurants.

Yeah, and I can't hunt unicorns. Life's a drag, eh?

.

[mosin]

8. I support your right to hunt unicorns.

So even if I don't drink -- which I hardly ever do -- I can't defend my family in most restaurants.
Yeah, and I can't hunt unicorns. Life's a drag, eh?

I should rephrase that: "I can't legally defend my family in most restaurants." As we've already established, some things are non-negotiable.

I actually find life to be a source of constant amusement.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

11. Unicorns?? NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!!!!

Congress should write a law! LOL!

[mosin]

12. Are unicorns an endangered species?

That didn't even occur to me. :) I agree that we shouldn't hunt endangered species for sports. We need to start a captive breeding program to rebuild the unicorn population.

[MrSandman]

13. dupe

[MrBenchley]

23. That WAS great!!

Didn't you love the "pro-gun" Republican?

"Wait a minute...did he just compare the Consittution to a book of golf rules?"

The spectacle of Helms running down the street chased by the guy on the motorcycle while musing "Those pussies....If only I'd brought my gun" was priceless.

He had a hilarious segment a few months ago about the "misguided" attempt in Louisiana to stop the practice of serving liquor at drive-through establishments.

P.S.: I also loved Rummy's soundbite earlier in the program: "Those who are making charges about 'tactics of intimidation' had better watch what they say."