GUNS IN THE NEWS--July 20, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
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[MrBenchley]

1. CONGRESS SHOULD EXTEND THE BAN ON ASSAULT WEAPONS (FL)

registration required
"Support for renewing the assault-weapons ban is broad and wide across the country. A July study by the Consumer Federation of America, for example, found that 81 percent of Floridians support renewal. This includes 64 percent of gun owners and 76 percent of men.
Similarly, in political battlegrounds like Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio, more than two in three respondents supported renewal. During the 2000 presidential campaign, candidate George Bush said he supported renewing the ban. However, since becoming president, Mr. Bush hasn't done much to follow through on that pledge.
The assault weapons ban is supported by every major law-enforcement agency across the country because it keeps police officers safe. In April, Miami Police Chief John Timoney explained that in the past 10 years, there's been a 66 percent decline in the number of assault weapons used in crimes. ''If the ban expires,'' he said, ``we will see a return to the horrific violence that plagued our streets during the late 1980s and early 1990s.''
There really isn't any good reason to allow such an outcome. The assault-weapons ban protects lives and helps to reduce crime. Members of the Congress should understand that their constituents, the majority of U.S. residents, are counting on them to keep streets safe."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/9194426.htm

[MrBenchley]

2. Gun Control An Emerging Issue (CT)

registration required
"WASHINGTON -- Democrats are confident they finally have a gun issue they can enthusiastically run with, thanks to the Republicans.
The 10-year ban on semiautomatic, assault-style weapons ends Sept. 13, and because there is likely to be no congressional action before then to extend it, a presidential campaign issue is ready to ignite.
Democrats can claim hypocrisy, because President Bush has said he supports extending the ban but has done little to follow up. They can run against the powerful National Rifle Association, which is aggressively opposing extension, and they can fight Senate Republicans, many of whom are leading the charge to keep it from a vote.
Democratic strategist Celinda Lake recently polled 1,800 voters in 10 swing states, including many thought to be gun-friendly. More than 60 percent favored renewing the ban on assault-style weapons, with the support high among every demographic."

http://www.ctnow.com/news/politics/hc-guns0720.artjul20,1,1494849.story?coll=hc-headlines-politics

[CO Liberal]

3. Seven-year-old SoCal girl fatally shot during ice cream outing

And as everyone knows, the proper punishment for going out for ice cream is DEATH!!!!!! </sarcasm> - Wayne

* * * * *

Seven-year-old SoCal girl fatally shot during ice cream outing

ASSOCIATED PRESS
4:43 p.m. July 19, 2004

EL MONTE – Authorities were seeking two people Monday for the fatal shooting of of a 7-year-old girl and the wounding of an 8-year-old girl and her father outside a convenience store.

Bryesha Limbrick, known to her family as Chily, had just stepped outside a 7-Eleven store Sunday evening and was eating an ice-cream cone when she was struck by gunfire, her mother Anna Pulido told KCAL-TV.

"She was just coming outta the store eating her ice-cream – and she got shot" Pulido said, breaking into sobs.

The bullets also pierced the car of Phu Ho, wounding him and his daughter Ashley, Los Angeles County sheriff's Deputy Tania Plunkett said.

<more>

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20040719-1643-ca-girlslain.html

[CO Liberal]

4. Road shooting probe stalls (CO)

And the penalty for driving to Boulder is DEATH!!!! </sarcasm> - Wayne

* * * * *

Road shooting probe stalls

Slaying on U.S. 36 might have been random, police say

By Sakari Alighandhi, Rocky Mountain News
July 20, 2004

Boulder County sheriff's investigators say they have exhausted most of their leads and are scaling back their investigation of a fatal drive-by shooting along U.S. 36.

"It's just not panning out," said Boulder County Sheriff's Lt. Phil West. With no good leads, police are considering the death of Francis Santos a random drive-by shooting.

Santos, 37, of Denver was driving a silver 1994 Chevrolet Cavalier July 9 on the Boulder Turnpike when motorists saw his car drift into a median barrier. Witnesses who saw the car crash told police they thought the driver was possibly experiencing a medical emergency and pulled over to assist.

When paramedics arrived, they found Santos dead in his car, killed by a gunshot wound to the head.

<more>

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3049433,00.html

[Romulus]

5. Ex-Cop Kills Carjacker, Gets Busted (NJ)

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/27518.htm

July 19, 2004 -- A retired NYPD cop shot and killed one of five assailants who tried to carjack his Cadillac in Newark yesterday, officials said.

He was charged with illegal possession of a handgun after shooting the assailant with a .40-caliber pistol, Newark police spokesman Lt. Derek Glenn said.

*snip*

The retired cop was on his way to Newark Airport at about 12:45 p.m. when the assailants, riding in an SUV, cut off his car, Glenn said.

Two gunmen ordered him out of the Cadillac, while a third jumped into the driver's seat and began to pull away.

The retired officer drew his gun and fired five times after one of the thugs aimed at him. The gunman was struck in the chest and killed. He was not identified.

*snip/more*

Gun-free NJ, what a great place.

[CO Liberal]

9. Looks Like Two Crimes Were Committed

He was charged with illegal possession of a handgun after shooting the assailant with a .40-caliber pistol, Newark police spokesman Lt. Derek Glenn said.

One by the carjacker. One by the retired cop playing Rambo.

[JayS]

14. Yup, only active members of the local police force should...

...be allowed to protect themselves.

[CO Liberal]

21. Tell Me, Jay...

What part of "illegal possession of a handgun" is unclear to you? :shrug:

[JayS]

23. All of it. I live in a state that does not pass such bizarre laws...

...to begin with...well, regarding Second Amendment rights anyway; we do have some pretty bizarre laws on other subjects.

[Jack_DeLeon]

45. Do you think its would have been better if there was only one crime...

in this incident? The murder of a retired police officer?

Because by you calling him "rambo" that implies that you think he shouldnt have had a gun.

[CO Liberal]

46. No

But he didn't need to fire, did he? :shrug:

You pro-gunners keep saying that the mere presence of a gun will make the bad guys retreat. Guess not.....

[MrBenchley]

47. And of course, if the carjackers had no guns

there might have been not even one crime...

[Jack_DeLeon]

71. I guess you have never heard of someone....

killing or carjacking with a knife.

It happened just the other day in Corpus Christi.
http://www.caller.com/ccct/local_news/article/0,1641,CCCT_811_3050442,00.html

[Jack_DeLeon]

70. Link, Please

To quote you from the Black Panthers thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x71357#71387
Sorry, but without sources there's no way of knowing if you made that stuff up or not.

So please post a link where one of the pro-gunners here stated that the mere presence of a gun will make the bad guys retreat.

IMO you are either taking it out of context, or perhaps the poster did not intend it exactly as the way he posted it.

I think guns will make "some" bad guys retreat, however its a lie to say that guns will make "all" bad guys retreat.

[Romulus]

6. Man Shot, Killed After Defying Court Order (NY)

http://www.wokr13.tv/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=A2D035A5-0B37-4646-A137-58CC8B1E096B

(Greece, NY) 07/18/04 -- A man was shot and killed by a relative as he tried to break into a home in West Hill Estates in Greece around 10:30 a.m. Saturday. The man had a restraining order against him to stay away from the premises.

Police said the homeowner shot and killed Russell Thurston, 43, with a long gun before he was able to fully enter the home. Thurston was apparently making threatening comments, but it's unclear exactly what he said.

Police said Thurston violated an order of protection filed on July 6 to stay away from the family and the home. Police won't say what led to the initial court order, but investigators say the homeowner was afraid.

At this point, Greece Police and the Monroe County District Attorney Mike Green believe the shooting was justified.

*snip/more*

[Romulus]

7. Wood County Sheriff Investigating Weekend Shooting (TX)

Edited to add link -oops!!

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12398248&BRD=1994&PAG=461&dept_id=341384&rfi=6

Wood County sheriff's investigators are continuing to examine the circumstances behind a weekend shooting that left one man injured.

*snip*

According to reports, a Winnsboro homeowner armed with a .22-caliber rifle shot and wounded an alleged burglar following a break-in at the residence.

The homeowner fired after the intruder threatened him and then refused to leave, records show. Authorities said the shot hit the intruder in the leg.

*snip*

The suspect had to be restrained after threatening to kill the officers, records show.

*snip/more*

[CO Liberal]

11. Link, Please?

You did such a good job of snipping to adhere to the copyright rules. All we need now is the link......

[Romulus]

8. Gun rights advocates defend open-carry law (VA)

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20040719-102254-3826r.htm

Virginians who exercise their right to carry guns in public have been criticized — even ridiculed — in recent days by critics on the both sides of the Potomac. But many gun rights advocates, state lawmakers and residents point out that it's much safer to shop, drive or walk along a street in Virginia than in the District, where handguns are banned and police just declared a "crime emergency."

*snip*

Virginia state Sen. Janet D. Howell says she was surprised when a D.C. resident sent her an e-mail saying he won't be crossing the Potomac into Virginia anymore because of the open-carry law. "He feels that the District of Columbia is a safer place to be," said Mrs. Howell, Fairfax County Democrat.

Crime statistics, however, indicate that Fairfax County is much safer than the District, even though the city has a fraction of the population of its southern neighbor.

From January through April this year, Fairfax County had four homicides while the District had 64. There were 189 robberies in Fairfax County compared with 1,214 robberies in the District, and 18 rapes compared with 100 rapes in the city.

*snip/more*

[MrBenchley]

10. Wow...the Reverend Moon's idiotic propaganda rag...

sticking up for gun whackos...who'd have guessed that.

[MrBenchley]

12. Family hopes jurors find gun maker found liable (CA)

"OAKLAND -- Griffin "Kenzo" Dix's mother and father watched hopefully as testimony commenced Monday at a third civil trial aimed at holding Beretta gun company accountable for their son's accidental shooting death in 1994.
Beretta should have foreseen that the chamber-loaded indicator on the Beretta 92 Compact L wielded by 14-year-old Michael Soe was so meager that it would go unnoticed, said attorney Elliot Peters, who represents the slain Berkeley teen's parents. "

http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~1486~2283260,00.html

[JayS]

13. ALL MANUFACTURERS should be protected from this...

...ridiculous crap.


*SNIP*

Beretta lawyers held firm that blame for the tragedy rests with Soe for treating the gun "like a toy" and his father, Clarence, for leaving the pistol where his son could easily get it.

Clarence Soe considered himself a savvy gun handler and showed his son how to handle the weapon, Beretta attorneys contend. Michael Soe was so intent on impressing 15-year-old Dix that he aimed it as his friend and pulled the trigger without checking first whether it was loaded, Beretta lawyers argued at the second civil trial, which ended in December with jurors deadlocked regarding whether Beretta shared the blame.

*SNIP*

[MrBenchley]

15. Yeah, screw the consumers..let corporations fuck 'em all....

[JayS]

16. And let all corporations go to China, Taiwan, Korea...

[MrBenchley]

19. ...says Jay, desperately sticking up for Italian company Beretta

"Fabbrica d'Armi Pietro Beretta
L'azienda produce armi dal 1526. Nel sito, la storia, i modelli, l'abbigliamento specializzato, le novità, la documentazione, i ricambi, ed altre informazioni sulle armi"

http://www.beretta.it/

Guess credibility isn't of much concern to our "pro gun democrats" anymore...

[JayS]

25. Note use of the word All.

[MrBenchley]

26. Too TOO funny....

Not use of the word "desperate"...and lack of the word "credible"

[CO Liberal]

22. And Let Everyone Defending the Gun Manufacturers....

...go to hell.

:-)

[JayS]

24. What a progressive statement....

[MrBenchley]

27. Jeeze, Jay...when did "progressive" ever concern

our "pro gun democrats"?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

29. Tsk tsk tsk....and yet I knew Beretta was Italian...

[JayS]

30. As did I. I own several of their products.

[MrBenchley]

32. Yeah. It showed.

All that was missing was the talking points about "trial lawyers."

[JayS]

34. Since you know the subject, tell us more.

[Pert_UK]

18. I have to say.....

that the meagreness of the "chamber-loaded indicator" shouldn't have any impact, given that you shouldn't ever point a gun at something unless you want to destroy it, and you should never clean/dismantle a gun unless you've manually checked that it's not loaded.

The odd thing is that Beretta bothered to put an indicator on there but made it so small as to be useless.....but if it's useless, then the owner needs to take even more precautions.

[iverglas]

37. that's why we have that contributory negligence thingy

The odd thing is that Beretta bothered to put an indicator on there but made it so small as to be useless.....but if it's useless, then the owner needs to take even more precautions.

In the other shot-kid case, the case of the kid who's trying to acquire the manufacturer that declared bogus bankruptcy, others *were* found negligent and partially liable. (And even paid up.)

The owner in this case was not the 14-yr-old kid. The owner should indeed have taken more precautions to prevent the 14-year-old kid having access to a loaded handgun. Anybody who lets a 14-yr-old kid "wield" a handgun should lose custody, if we can all stand just a wee bit of hyperbole.

If the absence/ineffectiveness of the feature in question can be shown to have contributed to the event that caused the damage, i.e. if the event might not have occurred had the manufacturer incorporated a more effective warning system, then the manufacturer may have been negligent, and liable, too.

[slackmaster]

39. Purpose of the chamber-loaded indicator has been perverted

The original intent of a CLI was to allow a shooter to ensure that a round was chambered and the gun ready to fire.

I've seen the original German language manual for the Walther P.38, which was used as a police and military sidearm throughout World War II. The instructions clearly show an operator using his right thumb to check the positions of the safety lever and the hammer, and the protrustion of the CLI, to be sure the gun was ready to fire. This eliminates the need to cycle the action and possibly spill a good round on the ground.

[MrBenchley]

40. Do you suppose Beretta gives away antique German language manuals...

for other guns when someone in the states purchases one?

[iverglas]

68. I find that all quite credible

(After all, what's the likelihood of a firearms manufacturer voluntarily equipping its product with a safety-enhancing device? Haw, haw.)

But I'd submit that if the manufacturer knew or ought to have known that people were relying on that device as a safety-enhancing measure, and that the device was inadequate for that purpose, then it could well be liable for damages resulting from reliance on it for that purpose and its inadequacy/malfunction for that purpose.

I'm looking for an analogy ... maybe how baby formula manufacturers were perfectly aware that indigent parents were watering down the formula and thereby inadvertently starving their babies, as a result of ad campaigns to persuade mothers to use formula rather than breastmilk ... of course, the dead babies hadn't often lived in the land o' lawsuits, so I don't know whether any were successfully launched.

[slackmaster]

72. Analogy - Using the Park position on an automatic transmission

To prevent your parked car from rolling down a hill.

Every car owner's manual advises, and any driving instructor would vehemently counsel a driver to turn the front wheels into the curb (or away on an uphill situation) and set the parking brake in addition to putting the transmission in Park. Park was not intended to be robust enough to prevent a car from rolling. It's a backup safety device at best, really more of a convenience. Frankly I wonder why they even call it Park. If that isn't one of comedian George Carlin's imponderables it ought to be. :D

If car manufacturers knew or ought to have known that people were relying on Park to prevent cars from rolling, and that Park is inadequate for that purpose (as stated in the owner's manual), then could they be liable for damages resulting from a few ignorant or careless peoples' failure to follow instructions? I know they've been sued for cars that pop out of Park and into gear by themselves, but that's a clear defect.

I am certain that the (modern, English language, intended for consumption in the USA) owner's manual of any gun equipped with a chamber-loaded indicator includes repeated stern warnings for people not to rely on that device as a definitive verification that a gun is not loaded. They all have the same boilerplate warning to visually check the chamber every time you handle the gun.

[JayS]

76. I think in this case, a "load indicator" window as big as a stop...

...sign would not have helped. Basic safety and common sense were apparently not frequent guests in the household in question. This could even be the same household where the (short a few fingers) homeowner sued the lawnmower manufacturer after a hedge trimming accident.

I am not too thrilled about "load indicators" for civilian firearms. My belief is that a person that would rely on such indicators would also not be a person that would take even the most basic care of his firearms and because of this the risk of malfunction somewhere in the system would render this safety device inoperable or unreliable. I would never put my safety or the safety of others in the hands of such a device.

[iverglas]

83. yes, but all of these are not the question

My belief is that a person that would rely on such indicators would also not be a person that would take even the most basic care of his firearms and because of this the risk of malfunction somewhere in the system would render this safety device inoperable or unreliable. I would never put my safety or the safety of others in the hands of such a device.

The question would be whether it is foreseeable, for the manufacturer, that people will indeed do such things.

I may have mentioned my firm belief that if you design something so that an idiot can use it, an idiot will indeed use it.

"Daytime running lights" are just such a thing. Since they were invented and made mandatory (some years ago, in Canada), the incidence of people driving at night, and in snowstorms, and in the rain and fog, and at dusk, without headlights and taillights (taillights do not come on automatically with the "daytime running lights"), has increased dramatically, from my observation. Daytime running lights are not meant to substitute for headlights and taillights, but a whole lot of people seem to think they do a fine job. In this case, it isn't the manufacturer that's to blame, it's the damned government, which should simply have made it law that people have to turn their headlights (and thence taillights) on whenever their vehicle is in motion. Or made it mandatory for them to come on automatically when the vehicle is in gear, just like the moronic daytime running lights.

If a manufacturer can reasonably foresee that a feature of its product will be used for a purpose for which it was not intended to be used, and not just in some bizarre instance by some particularly stupid person, and that harm could foreseeably result, it may well have responsibility to remedy the "defect" / liability for the resulting harm.

There are unarguably a whole lot of people out there with guns who are likely to fail to take whatever basic care of their firearms is necessary to keep such devices operating properly and/or who will fail to pay sufficient attention to notice that it is working properly. And also people who let their 14-year-olds "wield" the things. And my tentative opinion would be that a manufacturer would have every reason to believe that such people are owning and operating its products.

A manufacturer is certainly not the insurer of people who own and operate its products -- it cannot guarantee that whatever they do, nobody will get hurt. But there's a largish area between that and having no responsibility/liability at all for foreseeable uses of the products.

I'm not expressing any opinion about this particular case, unlike a number of people. I'm saying that these are all questions of fact for a court to decide, applying the proper principles of law.

[JayS]

84. I think the accident was foreseeable by the manufacturer but...

...not preventable. I am sure that an automobile manufacturer can foresee someone flying through a windshield in a most unpleasant way, but if that person will not use the safety device provided, the seat belt, then such an event is not preventable. As long as the safety device meets government standards I can't see the manufacturer being monetarily liable. That being said, it does not take much visible surface area for brass to stand out on a black handgun and if I were on the jury in a case like this I would not vote for the manufacturer to be liable. Then again, I am from a gun owning population so I'm obviously biased; the act of pointing a firearm at someone's head and pulling the trigger, even in jest, is just beyond insanity.

We have the same problems with Daytime Running Lights here. At our latitude you can legally drive with the lights off thirty minutes before sunrise until thirty minutes after sunset and some drivers must have a compulsion to follow this suggestion no matter what. The kicker is that people expect to see lights now and can totally not see a car that is not equipped with DTR.

[MrBenchley]

17. Police urge gun ban renewal (IL)

registration required
"More than 100 Illinois police departments joined an international police association on Monday urging Congress to renew the federal assault weapons ban, set to end Sept. 13.
The Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence compiled a list of 111 police and sheriff's departments that support renewing the ban, said executive director Thom Mannard. A letter was sent to all members of Congress in mid-June from more than over 800 U.S. law enforcement departments nationwide--including some from Illinois--calling on them to renew the ban.
The ban outlawed the production of 19 types of semi-automatic weapons in 1994. Loopholes in the ban allowed gun manufacturers to modify illegal weapons, such as by removing a flash suppressor or bayonet lug, to make the weapons legal, however."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0407200246jul20,1,3966585.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed

[MrBenchley]

20. Police detail events that led to shooting (TN)

"A shootout yesterday in a residential neighborhood left a suspect in critical condition and a police officer with a gunshot wound to the leg. Here is what led to the east Nashville shooting, according to the Metro police account:
o Officer Cole Womack sees a Mercury Sable at 3:30 a.m. at Citgo Market, 500 Main St.
o The driver goes to nearby shrubbery on North Seventh Street. Womack and Officer Peter Lynch take cover behind the shrubbery and an exchange of gunfire occurs between the driver and officers.
o Lynch is hit in the right leg above the knee. The driver continues firing. Officer Sungjun Park shows up and also fires his gun at the driver."

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/04/07/54651352.shtml?Element_ID=54651352

[MrBenchley]

31. Dayton bar manager killed while trying to mediate argument (OH)

"DAYTON, Ohio -- A bar manager who tried to mediate an argument between patrons was killed and two other men were injured when a man involved in the argument began shooting into a crowd in the bar's parking lot, police said.
Naamon Johnson Jr., 28, was killed and two other men were injured about 2 a.m. Monday at the shooting in the parking lot of the Majestic Lounge, police said.
Johnson was not involved in the argument other than trying to end it peacefully, police Sgt. Gary White said.
The argument involving three to four people started in the bar. Johnson escorted them outside and tried to mediate, White said. A crowd formed as the argument continued and the shooter walked away, pulling a handgun and spraying the crowd, White said."

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2061138

[MrBenchley]

33. Police shoot prowling suspect (GA)

"Police responding to a report of prowlers near an office supply store and nightclub in Sandy Springs shot and wounded a suspect who pointed a handgun at them, Fulton County police said.
An officer who fired the shot early Monday was placed on administrative leave pending an investigation, police Cpl. Kurtis Young said.
Fidel Duran, 18, of Oxnard, Calif., was taken to Grady Memorial Hospital with "non-life threatening" gunshot wounds in the thigh and buttocks, Young said. Duran was charged with aggravated assault on a police officer, prowling and loitering."

http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/ap_newfullstory.asp?ID=41933

[MrBenchley]

35. Man in custody after party shooting

registration required
GARDEN CITY, Kan. - A man was in custody Monday following a fatal weekend shooting that marked the second homicide of the year in this southwest Kansas town.
Garden City police Capt. Mike Utz said a man was shot multiple times in the chest at a house party early Sunday morning. Police said an argument that began at the party spilled out into the back yard where Arellano Torres, 20, of Garden City, was shot. He was taken to a hospital, where he later died.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/9192724.htm?1c

Another glorious celebration of "freedom"...

[MrBenchley]

36. Shooting under investigation (GA)

"The incident occurred July 19, around 4 p.m. at the McMurray residence. Injured, according to reports, were Jody McMurray and Joey Dempsey. McMurray was transported to Gadsden Regional Medical Center and Dempsey was transported to UAB Medical Center. According to Cherokee County Sheriff Larry Wilson, an altercation erupted between the two subjects, who apparently shot each other."

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=726&NewsID=561269&CategoryID=3451&on=1

[MrBenchley]

38. Man accused of shooting four of his children, killing three, pleads guilty

"DETROIT (AP) — A man accused of shooting to death three of his children and wounding a fourth pleaded guilty Tuesday.
Anthony Lamar Bailey pleaded guilty to three counts of second-degree murder, one count of assault with intent to commit murder and one count of felony firearm.
Bailey, who was charged with three counts of first-degree murder, three counts of felony murder and one count each of assault with intent to commit murder, arson and felony firearm, faces up to life in prison when he is sentenced on Aug. 16.
Prosecutors say Bailey shot the children in their Detroit home Aug. 19, 2003, and set the house on fire."

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/news-17/1090341556155830.xml

[MrBenchley]

41. GRPD investigates overnight drive-by shooting (MI)

"(Update, Grand Rapids, July 20, 2004, 12:17 p.m.) Grand Rapids police are investigating a drive-by shooting that left three people wounded on the city’s southeast side.
Police say a group of ten to 20 teens were standing outside a home on Cass, when a dark SUV pulled up to the group just after midnight Tuesday.
Witnesses say that someone inside the SUV shot at the teens, hitting three of them. The driver of the SUV then drove off and was last seen heading west on Garden. "

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2061831&nav=0RceOxwZ

[MrBenchley]

42. MP man charged in Pas shooting (MS)

"PASCAGOULA -- A Moss Point man was arrested late Sunday night and charged with murder after a shooting at an apartment complex on Hospital Road in Pascagoula.
Adonis D. Tucker, 26, 3913 Woodlawn Drive, Moss Point, turned himself in to authorities at the Pascagoula Police Department headquarters on Live Oak Avenue downtown, according to Lt. Paul Leonard.
The shooting, which happened around 11 p.m. Sunday at the Pine Tree Apartments, left 41-year-old Manola C. Tirado dead. "

http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/index.ssf?/base/news/1090318541139410.xml

[MrBenchley]

43. Man dies from gunshot wound (IN)

"A Fort Wayne man who was shot inside a Euclid Avenue home early today has died at a local hospital, Fort Wayne Police said.
Kyle Holmes, 26, was found just before 2 a.m. at 2322 Euclid Ave. suffering from a gunshot wound.
He was taken to a local hospital in critical condition, but was pronounced dead more than three hours after the shooting.
Police spokeswoman Liza Thomas said detectives were interviewing several people they hope will have information about what led to the shooting. No arrests have been made; a motive also remains unknown. "

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/news/local/9198958.htm

[MrBenchley]

44. Shots fired across Norry street (PA)

"NORTHUMBERLAND — A borough man was jailed in Northumberland County Prison after he allegedly fired shots at a vehicle from his Second Street residence at 5:12 p.m. Sunday afternoon.
Franklyn Charles, 31, faces aggravated assault and related charges as a result of the incident.
Northumberland police said Charles had been involved in an argument with two brothers, Robert and Tyron Garrison, of Sunbury. When the Garrisons pulled up in front of Charles’ home, police said Charles pulled a handgun and fired five times.
One of the bullets struck the passenger-side door of the Garrison vehicle, while another struck the front of a home across the street. "

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12400740&BRD=2311&PAG=461&dept_id=482260&rfi=6

[MrBenchley]

48. Groomsman Wanted For Allegedly Firing Shots From Limo (MI)

Another one of these "law-abiding responsible gun owners" no-one ever has to worry about....

"A man charged with firing a semiautomatic weapon from a limousine failed to show up for his arraignment Monday, according to Local 4 reports.
Tom Gorjcaj, 29, of Clarkston, was arrested Saturday for firing shots from one of two sport utility vehicle-style limos carrying members of a wedding party, according to police.
Gorjcaj told authorities that the gun was his, but denied firing the weapon, Hackel said, but other information indicated it was stolen.
He was scheduled to appear for a formal arraignment on Monday, but did not show up, according to the station's report. A bench warrant has been issued for his arrest and his bond was forfeited."

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3548883/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

49. Police find machine gun in car, hunt man who fled (FL)

registration required
"Police were called to an argument at Jumbo's, an eatery at 7501 NW Seventh Ave. When they arrived, everyone was gone. But 10 minutes later came a 911 call about another argument. The first officer to arrive was flagged to a vehicle, which he pulled over.
An officer saw a fully automatic Uzi in the car. Two men ran; one was caught."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/9187236.htm

[MrBenchley]

50. Police: AK-47 Used In Fatal Convenience Store Shooting (NJ)

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KYW
CAMDEN, N.J. (AP) Camden authorities say an A-K-47 assault rifle and a sawed-off shotgun were used in a weekend shooting that left one man dead and three others injured.
The weapons were fired Saturday outside a convenience store in what had been known as one of the city's safest neighborhoods. And Camden County Prosecutor Vincent Sarubbi says it appears that none of the four victims were the shooters' intended targets.
Authorities say the shooting stemmed from an argument that afternoon in Yorkship Square, the center of the Fairview neighborhood, but it wasn't immediately clear who the intended target was. "

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_201221454.html

A splendid celebration of freedom....

[CO Liberal]

52. Wait a Minute....

...I thought these guns were NEVER used to commit crimes. </sarcasm>

[FeebMaster]

54. Well according to the article

the AK-47 was an assault rifle and since assault rifles are by definition machine guns clearly that AK-47 wasn't an assault weapon as defined in the AWB. So it's fair to say the number of assault weapons used in crimes wasn't increased by this incident.

Furthermore, no one has said "assault weapons" aren't used in crimes, just that they are rarely used in crimes.

[CO Liberal]

56. But If The Ban Were To Be Lifted....

...their use would become much more common. Which is why I want the ban renewed.

[FeebMaster]

61. What does that have to do with this article?

This article referred to a machine gun being used in the commission of a crime. The Assault Weapons Ban has nothing to do with machine guns, so if the AWB is lifted it will have no effect on the use of machine guns in crime.

[RoeBear]

73. Nobody wants to hear that...

[CO Liberal]

82. YOU Are The One...

...who brought up the AWB - not me.

[FeebMaster]

85. I thought you brought it up

when you said "Wait a Minute.......I thought these guns were NEVER used to commit crimes."

I thought you were referring to people saying that Assault Weapons were rarely used in crimes. What were you referring to?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

53. Guess some people's obsession makes them see guns

even when there aren't any....

[JayS]

55. The only way to commit suicide is with a gun; I thought you...

...knew that.

[MrBenchley]

57. Another one of those spasm attacks

that seem to afflict our "enthusiasts"near daily: "Why, here's a news story about an elderly couple....AWK! GUNS GUNS GUNS!"

Hope somebody wedges something in their yaps to so they don't bite off their tongues as they thrash about the floor when those occur so frequently....

[JayS]

59. I think you are having an.....attack.

[MrBenchley]

62. Nope...

But then I'm not hallucinating guns where there are none

[JayS]

63. They are dead, aren't they? Suicide has to be with a gun...

...as it is impossible to kill yourself any other way.

[MrBenchley]

64. Clearly you're somebody worth a SERIOUS response

and that's why you get the response you do from me.

[JayS]

65. You are only capable of one response and your poor behavior...

...is only tolerated because you give a lot of money to DU. Does that give you some sort of satisfaction?

[MrBenchley]

66. It gives me a BIG fucking laugh...

[JayS]

67. It's your money.

[MrBenchley]

69. Since you bring it up...

It IS noticeable how few of our "pro gun democrats" have stars...or can bring themselves to say anything even remotely pro-Democrat.

[JayS]

74. You don't see many statements that are pro-Democrat because...

...you spend too much time down in J/PS, which is mostly about guns, and the Democrats have not had a good record in this area in many years. With the exception of Democrats like Rep. Dingell, not many Democrats have a good record on enforcing laws either. That's just the way it is and I doubt much will change anytime soon.

Sorry, but I tend not to want donations attributable to me. If it makes you happy I'll identify my donations to my online name.

I have no idea why you would want to pay to be allowed to be rude and childish, but that is your business and not mine. To each his own, I guess. Spend your day finding "gun in the news" if it makes you happy. I find this behavior odd but it is your day to spend as you choose.

[MrBenchley]

75. Gee, Jay, I see plenty of pro-Democrat staements on DU

But it's funny to hear you pretend I was talking about the whole forum and NOT the gungeon.

[JayS]

77. I so rarely see you post outside of J/PS that the assumption...

...was a safe one to make.

[MrBenchley]

78. Hahahahahahaha....

Yeah, clearly "It IS noticeable how few of our "pro gun democrats" have stars...or can bring themselves to say anything even remotely pro-Democrat." is talking about The Meeting Room folder.

[JayS]

79. What about the Meeting Room? I rarely go there. I'm not into...

...astrology.

[MrBenchley]

80. The wonder isn't that so many RKBA arguments are lame

The wonder is that anybody can think they aren't lame...

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

58. Two Questioned, Released In Clawson Shooting (MI)

"Two people being held for questioning in connection with a fatal shooting in Clawson on Saturday were released on Tuesday, according to police.
Clawson police say they received no calls when the shooting occurred around 11:30 p.m. outside the Maple Apartments on West Maple Road.
Police said five men were in a van parked outside the complex when a Jeep drove up and stopped in front of the van. At least two men jumped out of the Jeep; one pulled out a handgun and fired shots. The two men got back into the Jeep and fled the scene, according to police. Markiol Jaku, 20, of Warren, died from a gunshot wound to the chest."

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3555779/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

60. Leads Peter Out In Fatal Highway Shooting (CO)

Too many assholes and too many guns...

"BOULDER, Colo. (AP) Authorities say they have exhausted all leads in last week's shooting death of a 37-year-old man driving on the Boulder Turnpike.
Reports of car windows being shot out in the nearby Denver area have interested Boulder investigators, but so far no connections have been made, sheriff's Lt. Phil West said.
In January, a 7-month-old was shot in the head in the back of a car headed south on Interstate 25 in Northglenn. The baby survived, and no arrests have been made."

http://news4colorado.com/crimeaccidentreport/local_story_202144828.html