Olmert: We must separate from Palestinians, draw final borders

[IndianaGreen]

Last update - 04:20 08/02/2006

Olmert: We must separate from Palestinians, draw final borders

By Aluf Benn and Mazal Mualem, Haaretz Correspondents

Israel "will separate from most of the Palestinian population that lives in the West Bank, and that will obligate us to separate as well from territories where the State of Israel currently is," Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Tuesday in his first media interview since taking on the job of acting premier.

"We will gather ourselves into the main settlement blocs and preserve united Jerusalem... Ma'aleh Adumim, Gush Etzion and Ariel will be part of the state of Israel," Olmert told Channel 2 television.

Asked by interviewer Nissim Mishal what he intended to do with the Jordan Valley, Olmert responded: "It is impossible to give up control over Israel's eastern border."

"The direction is clear," he continued. "We are moving toward separation from the Palestinians, toward setting Israel's permanent border."

However, he declined to offer any further details, and in particular failed to mention settlements such as Hebron, Beit El and Ofra, which Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had viewed as part of the settlement blocs that Israel would retain.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/680286.html

[Kagemusha]

1. The paper also had a story that they're taking W's defense guarantee

seriously. To the cabinet, to the papers, to the public, the PM is saying, Bush's offering a defense shield for Israel against Iran...

Noted without further comment.

[occuserpens]

2. Israel unveils plan to encircle Palestinian state

Chris McGreal. Israel unveils plan to encircle Palestinian state

[IndianaGreen]

3. How can you encircle a non-existing Palestinian state?

There is not going to be a corridor between Gaza and the West Bank. The future Palestinian state will be in two parts, just as Pakistan used to be after partition with India. It may well happen that, as in Pakistan, the mostly secular West Bank and mostly Islamists Gaza will go their separate ways, unless there is a civil war.

This highly biased story from The Guardian does have several elements of truth in it:

"He (Olmert) talked about Israel having to maintain a Jewish majority in the state of Israel, meaning that we have to create a new border, what is called final borders. He knows that we can't negotiate with Hamas. So the only conclusion that can be derived from this is that, in order to reach final borders, Israel will have to carry out additional (unilateral) withdrawals," said Mishal.

[Coastie for Truth]

4. The Pakistan - India - Kashmir - (Later Bangladesh) Partition

is not altogether incorrect as some of model, horrible example, etc.

[rfkrfk]

11. why do the British get to decide these borders?

I kinda favor the 1066 borders,
or maybe 1492

[Coastie for Truth]

12. The point was that there were massive population dislocations

The Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus fled from Pakistan and the many of the Indian Muslims went to Pakistan.

Note: My thesis adviser was an Indian Muslim whose family stayed in India, he went to Bangalore, and then got his PhD at University of Michigan and got TENURE at a major, "Big Ten" research, public university. So, I guess staying in India worked out for him.

[occuserpens]

5. The point is,

WB canton can get encircled by the Israeli territory. A for the WB being secular, the most reasonable explanation is the Israeli control. It is very likely that if they withdraw from the WB, Hamas will take over like in Gaza.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. I do not consider the Guardian altogether unbiased.

[occuserpens]

7. I do not consider JePo and YNet unbiased as well

But I do my best to make sense of their rants

[Coastie for Truth]

8. We agree

The mark of educated, intelligent, perceptive (like you and me and most Progressives) people - is that we can separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Left-wing bias vs right-wing bias...

That's what the difference is, and anyone who tries to claim that right-wing media sources should be taken just as seriously as left-wing sources (btw, I know you haven't done that) has got to be joking. Coastie is using the word 'bias' as though it's the same as 'credible'. The Guardian has a left-wing bias, which no-one is disputing, and unlike JPost and some of its right-wing relatives, the Guardian is a source that is highly credible and respected. The likes of JPost, FoxNews, etc are good for a bit of amusement, but that's about it...

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

9. He's obviously referring to it after it becomes a state...

And Olmert clearly saying that Israel plans to make the Jordan Valley part of Israel means that Israel will be encircling the Palestinian state, not that an entity like that could be called a functioning state with any seriousness...

Violet...

[IndianaGreen]

10. This is the deal, take it or leave it!

Palestinian leaders have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity, and I don't see Hamas changing their spots.

As to encirclement, I have never heard Israel complain about being encircled by people hell-bent on her destruction, and I don't see where Olmert said anything resembling the interpretation you have given this story. I see Olmert withdrawing from more settlements than what Sharon was originally planning to do.

Nothing is in play until after the March elections. A Labour win will not satisfy Hamas, for they won't be happy until Israel becomes a footnote in history. A Likud win will be the flip side of a Hamas win in Palestine, more bloodshed will ensue. A Kadima win means that Israel will withdraw from most of the West Bank and the Palestinians will be forced to choose between governance or their version of Bush's "Long War."

It is the status quo that has resulted in the bloody tit-for-tat between the parties in this sad conflict. One would think that progressives would welcome any move, even a unilateral one, that would change the present situation and move us toward a peace, however imperfect it may be to some.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. It's not a deal...

Nor would anyone in their right mind think that it was an acceptable solution to the conflict....

Israel being surrounded by people hell-bent on her destruction?'

Not the 'frothing at the mouth millions of Arabs' stereotype again? That is so tired and so shallowly false....

'I don't see where Olmert said anything representing the interpretation you have given this story'

Maybe it's because I actually repeated what he said about the Jordan Valley? I read both the OP and the Chris McGreal article. eg Asked by interviewer Nissim Mishal what he intended to do with the Jordan Valley, Olmert responded: "It is impossible to give up control over Israel's eastern border."

One would think that progressives would welcome any move, even a unilateral one, that would change the present situation and move us toward a peace, however imperfect it may be to some.

Yr going to have to explain why you think progressives would welcome continued violations of international law and human rights abuses, all in the name of what everyone but people who aren't interested in any sort of peace or fairness when it comes to the Palestinians would try to falsely call 'peace'.

Violet...

[eyl]

14. I watched that interview

and it struck me that Olmert was choosing his words very carefully. Note the difference between "Gush Etzion...will remain part of Israel" and "It is impossible to give up control over Israel's eastern border" - the latter does not necessarily require Israel to maintain the all (and possibly not even part, under certain scenarios) of the Jordan Valley.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. Olmert strikes me as a much preferable PM than Sharon...

He's said and done some things that have really impressed me lately, so don't think I'm just picking on him to keep my fanbase of 'Violet is anti-Israel' types happy. I'd like to believe that there is a difference when he talks about the Jordan Valley, eyl, but when he refers to it being Israel's eastern border, then I'm thinking he's talking about the sort of thing in Barak's 'generous offer' where Israel controls the Jordan Valley for 15? years and it's a total no-go zone for Palestinians...

Violet...

[eyl]

19. What I'm trying to convey

which is difficult without a video or a transcript of the interview - is that my impression was that Olmert was very picky as to his word choices during the interview. So if he didn't explicitly say - unlike regarding other areas - that the Jordan valley would reain part of Israel, I consider that to be somewhat significant.

[Wordie]

16. In other words, we are now FORCED to do what we've planned all along. eom

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up...

n/t

[Englander]

20. Israel cuts off Jordan Valley from rest of West Bank

By Amira Hass

While the international community busied itself with the disengagement from the Gaza Strip last summer, Israel completed another cut-off process, which went unnoticed: Israel completed cutting off the eastern sector of the West Bank from the remainder of the West Bank in 2005.

Some 2,000,000 Palestinians, residents of the West Bank, are prohibited from entering the area, which constitutes around one-third of the West Bank, and includes the Jordan Valley, the area of the Dead Sea shoreline and the eastern slopes of the West Bank mountains. Military sources told Haaretz that the moves have been "security measures" adopted by the Israel Defense Forces, and have no connection to any political intentions whatsoever.

Restrictions on the movement of Palestinians in the Jordan Valley were imposed at the start of the intifada, and were gradually expanded. But the sweeping prohibition regarding entry into the area by Palestinians was imposed, in fact, after security responsibility in Jericho was given back to the Palestinians on March 16, 2005.

At the time, Palestinian sources say, Palestinian travelers coming across the Allenby Bridge (the West Bank's only direct link overseas) were banned from passing through the Jordan Valley even if they were heading to the northern West Bank and the villages adjacent to the valley's checkpoints. Instead, the travelers are required to go through Jericho, and from there, the road is long and filled with checkpoints and delays.

Furthermore, since then, residents of Jericho and the remainder of the West Bank have been banned from passing through the Ouja checkpoint, north of Jericho, in the direction of the Jordan Valley.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/681891.html

[Englander]

21. Haaretz Editorial;

Obsolete security asset

By Haaretz Editorial

In a graduated process determined primarily by security considerations, the Israeli government has, over the last few years, almost totally severed the West Bank from the Jordan Valley, and transformed the Jordan Valley area into a Jewish region. This separation, which stemmed from terror activity in Jordan Valley communities and from gunfire targeting Israeli passengers on the Beit She'an road - incidents that depleted the Jordan Valley communities of their residents - caused thousands of Palestinians from West Bank villages to be cut off from their land and their livelihood.

Those who are permitted to enter have a hard time selling their wares because most of the crossing points where the fruit and vegetable trade used to take place have been blocked. Jericho, the major Palestinian city in the area, has become a city blocked by a trench, part of an effort to keep Palestinian vehicles off the Jordan Valley road - exiting the city to the north is dependent on permission from the Israel Defense Forces.

Four permanent checkpoints stationed between the mountain ridge and the Jordan Valley prevent Palestinians who are not Jordan Valley residents from passing through. Those who manage to change the address on their identity cards are allowed to enter, but are thereby compelled to cut themselves off from their families in the West Bank. Every few days there are nighttime raids aimed at discovering and deporting those considered to be in the area illegally, who are actually located on their own lands. The Jordan Valley road has become a road for Jews only.

Although the explanations for this hard-line policy are security related, it's difficult to avoid connecting the developing reality to Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's declaration that Israel "cannot relinquish control over Israel's eastern border." The Jordan Valley residents feel that in making that statement, Olmert expressed a commitment to Israel's remaining in the Jordan Valley, while others interpret his comments as an evasion of just such a commitment. Control is not sovereignty, and it can be determined by a minimal military presence after withdrawal and evacuation. According to the Geneva Initiative, the Jordan Valley road would remain under Israeli security control although it would be transferred to Palestinian sovereignty.

>snip

The Jordan Valley settlers are part of an obsolete political worldview that saw obstruction of passage from the east into Israel as an existential security need, and the settlers as those who would defend the border. This is a similar approach to the one that led to the establishment of the Gush Katif communities. Between the eastward expansion of Ma'aleh Adumim, the westward expansion of the Jordan Valley communities and the expansion of the settlement blocs toward the Green Line, the Palestinians are left with no territory on which to establish a state. The imprisonment of the Palestinians in a small area and the increasing depletion of their sources of employment do not serve Israel's security needs, even if for a moment someone thought he succeeded in capturing another dunam and more might.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/682399.html

[Englander]

22. "Israel excludes Palestinians from fertile valley"

· Permit system seen as bid to annex West Bank land
· Residents forced to leave area as farmers lose jobs

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Tuesday February 14, 2006
The Guardian

Israel has effectively annexed the Jordan Valley - about a third of the occupied West Bank - by barring almost all Palestinians from entering the region, a respected Israeli human rights group said yesterday.

The group, B'Tselem, points to a system of permits and checkpoints that has expanded over recent months to keep most Palestinians out of the valley. It says this and other measures that are forcing residents to leave the area appear to be a step towards seizing the land for Israel.

"Israel's permit regime in the valley, together with statements of senior officials, give the impression that the motive underlying Israel's policy is not based on military-security needs, but is political: the de facto annexation of the Jordan Valley," said B'Tselem.

>snip

The sparsely populated valley - home to about 53,000 Palestinians and 6,000 Israelis in 21 Jewish settlements - is among the most fertile land in the occupied territories and an important source of produce. It also used to be a main transport route linking various parts of the West Bank. But last year the army, unannounced, started restricting Palestinian access. Only those whose identity documents show they live there are permitted to remain. Several thousand workers in the settlements or in essential areas, such as teaching and healthcare, are given permits to visit during the day.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1709278,00.html

[Englander]

23. In Ze'evi's footsteps

By Amira Hass

Someone who apparently had an especially sarcastic sense of humor decided to officially name the Jordan Valley Road, Route 90, the "Gandhi Road." The reference is not to Mahatma Gandhi, but to Rehavam Ze'evi, who advocated "transfer" - the expulsion of the Palestinians from their land. Perhaps he understood that this was indeed the appropriate name for the eastern road. For not only on this road, but throughout the enormous and beautiful expanse of the Jordan Valley and the eastern slopes of the hills, there is an oppressive sense of absence, loss, and emptiness.

The Palestinians have disappeared from the valley, aside from a few thousand who live there plus some to whom Israel agrees to give daily entrance permits for various reasons. It is not even possible to include the approximately 35,000 residents of Jericho among those remaining, because the Israel Defense Forces forbids them to travel northward of Area A, where they live.

Thousands of residents of the neighboring towns and villages in the northern West Bank, which are sometimes only a few kilometers away, are absent from the valley, even though they have relatives and friends, privately owned land, houses, commercial ties and jobs there. Also missing are the Palestinian cars that in the not so distant past used to transport these absentees. Missing as well are the thousands of potential travelers to Jordan, the vacationing families and school students. These potential customers are absent from the colorful stalls at the crossroads.

Israeli soldiers control this absence via four principal checkpoints that divide the valley from the rest of the West Bank. They obey the orders of their commanders: It is forbidden for any Palestinian - in other words, some two million people (the 1.4 million residents of Gaza are already forbidden to come to the West Bank in any case) - to enter the valley, except for those whose official address, in their ID, is the Jordan Valley.

Some will say that these are security measures, whether legitimate or excessive, citing the attacks on settlers in the region over the last five years. But primarily, this is a direct continuation of a long-standing Israeli policy that intensified during the Oslo period. This policy has turned the Palestinian Jordan Valley, about one-third of the West Bank, into a story of lost opportunities from the point of view of its Palestinian potential: a potential for agricultural development and tourism, for improving and expanding existing communities or building new ones, for enabling a variety of lifestyles - urban, rural and semi-nomadic, modern and ancient, almost biblical.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/682885.html

[bemildred]

24. Almost sounds like Apartheid. nt