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FM Livni meets Blair in bid to deny Hamas int'l recognition

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 06:01 AM
Original message
FM Livni meets Blair in bid to deny Hamas int'l recognition
LONDON - Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni met with Prime Minister Tony Blair in London on Thursday. Livni's trip to London is the last stop on a trip aimed at persuading European leaders to withhold funds from a Palestinian government led by Hamas.

Britain has responded cautiously to the radical Islamic party's election victory, saying it was bound to respect the outcome of a democratic election but that Hamas now has a responsibility to disavow violence and recognize Israel.

The European Union agreed Monday to give the Palestinians $143 million in urgent aid before Hamas takes office. The bloc regards Hamas as a terrorist organization.

Israel says the money is bound to reach militants pledged to its destruction.

more...
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 06:20 AM
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1.  Israeli 'ruler-in-waiting' plans to starve Hamas
By Leonard Doyle, Foreign Editor
Published: 02 March 2006

She is already being spoken of as an Israeli leader in waiting. Today the Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni brings to London the campaign to destabilise the incoming Hamas Palestinian government by starving it of cash.

Israel's policy - described by a spokesman as putting "the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger" - has left London feeling squeamish. Tony Blair and Jack Straw will today undoubtedly show solidarity with Israel, saying Britain is not in the business of funding terrorists. But in private there is anguish that the policy will bring malnutrition to innocent Palestinians and punish them for taking part in a democratic election. The Palestinians are completely dependent on foreign aid for their survival and Israel's campaign to put 3.6 million people on starvation rations is foreboding.

>snip

Ms Livni, 47, has made a considerable political journey from her early support for a Greater Israel to realisation that the country cannot remain a democracy while occupying Palestinian lands and ruling over a population that despises it. A teenager born to a nationalist family, she was nearly arrested for violently protesting against Henry Kissinger's ill-fated shuttle diplomacy. Despite her closely held dream of a Greater Israel, she maintains that she has long been a centrist on the national question. Raised in a hardline Likud household, Ms Livni has an ideological pedigree that is hard to top.

"My family is part of the founding history of Israel," she has said. Her father's gravestone bears the inscription, "Here lies the head of operations of the Irgun" - refering to a pre-independence military organisation set up to fight the British and the Arabs. The stone also bears a carved map of Greater Israel extending to the opposite side of the Jordan river.

A former Mossad officer, Ms Livni is the daughter of Zionists - classified as terrorists by the British authorities. Her father, Eitan, was the Irgun's head of operations when it blew up the King David hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing 28 Britons, 41 Arabs, 17 Jews and five others. The subsequent wave of terror attacks he led outraged British public opinion, leading the government to abandon the Palestinian Mandate and turn the problem over to the UN, with disastrous consequences for the Palestinians.

Ms Livni was one of Sharon's favourite colleagues - part of the kitchen cabinet that planned the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza last year and his key emissary. She was also the first person he asked to join the centrist party Kadima after breaking away from Likud during a row with the right over the withdrawal.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article348712.ece
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 06:48 AM
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 07:42 AM
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3. Hamas and the Irgun
Thank you - I didn't know Ms Livni's background. It is a pity Tony Blair didn't ask her to reconcile her views of Hamas with those of the Irgun.

Can anyone suggest why the terrorist actions of the Lehi/Stern Group (murderers of Count Bernadotte Folke, the UN mediator) and Irgun (whose leader became Prime Minister) should be forgotten whereas Hamas must jump through hoops before it is even considered respectable enough to talk to? Did anyone ask the Irgun to recognise the British Palestine Mandate before independance could be considered?
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I think there's a vast difference beween Ms. Livni and Hamas.
Edited on Fri Mar-03-06 06:24 PM by Colorado Blue
One shouldn't have to elaborate but briefly, I shall attempt to clarify matters.

Perhaps most importantly, one must consider the times. The WWII era was the most incredibly violent, and the most devastating, both to humankind in general and to Jews in particular, that we've ever experienced, at least to my knowledge. Irgun, et.al., were a part of that general horror.

Irgun and Stern gang were never more than a few thousand people, out of the 600,000 or so citizens of the Yishuv (the Jewish community) within the Mandate, and they were disarmed once the Israeli government was established. Their terror tactics were horrendous and were widely deplored by the majority of the Jewish community, as indeed by the world as a whole.

However, their actions also saved many thousands of Jews from the Holocaust and helped liberate the nascent state of Israel from the British.

Like everything else in life, history's view of them will be more nuanced and complex than is sometimes convenient for the purposes of propaganda. Perhaps this will also prove to be true of Hamas.

Irgun and Stern Gang differ from Hamas in that they were NOT an elected government and they were neither trying to destroy the British Empire or their Arab neighbors, and nor were they inspired either by the racist hatred combined with religious fervor which is apparent within the covenant of Hamas.

Irgun/Stern Gang had arisen in the '30's in response to the really dreadful violence within the Mandate, attacks against Jews by Arabs, but also by British policy that was exacerbating the already hopeless situation confronted by European Jews, by the British blockades during and after the war. This is not to excuse the unforgiveable, but it should at least put their behavior into some perspective. The Jewish residents of the Mandate had come under repeated violent attack, the Holocaust in Europe was decimating European Jewry, and the British were exacerbating the problem. Nevertheless, the Irgun leader David Raziel was killed in the service of the British, having volunteered for a dangerous mission in Iraq.

To quote the article linked below,

"From 1940 through 1943, Irgun declared a truce against the British, and supported Allied efforts against Nazi forces and their allies in the area by enlisting its members in British forces and the Jewish Brigade. A small group lead by Avraham Stern, who insisted on continuing to fight the British, broke off and formed an independent group, Lehi. In 1941, the Irgun leader, David Raziel volunteered for a dangerous British military mission in Iraq to capture or kill Amin al-Husayni, but was killed by a German bomber before the operation could be finished." Amin al-Husayni, or Husseini, was the notorious Mufti of Jerusalem who had begun contacting Hitler as early as 1933, was responsible for much of the violence in the Mandate, and had overthrown the moderate, pro-British government of Iraq enroute to Berlin.

Hamas, on the other hand, IS the elected representative of the Palestinian people, they do have as their stated goal the destruction of their neighbor, and it is unlikely that they will, if only because of their religious orientation, moderate and fold themselves into a nonviolent governmental entity. Upon several occasions recently they've reconfirmed their opposition to the existence of Israel.

Finally, Israel is NOT the British Mandate. The Mandate was a temporary arrangement, granted to the British Empire by the League of Nations, over the Palestine Mandate - which at the time included Jordan, all of which was to become the Jewish homeland. However, the British partitioned Jordan, 78% of the Mandate, and gave it to the Hashemites of Saudi Arabia. Jews were then forbidden to purchase land or settle east of the Jordan, and further Jewish settlement and land sales were severely limited at the very time the Jewish people were in their most desperate trouble.

Israel nevertheless survived. She is not a representative of anybody's colonial government but is a sovereign state, whose very existence should not rely upon the recognition of a terrorist organization that has murdered hundreds of her citizens, and maimed and bereaved thousands more.

I hope this makes sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Maybe because
the Jewish organizations you name never represented anywhere near a majority of Yishuv public opinion or influence, were condemned by most of it, and only came into Israel's political structure (not the government, note - that took another 30 years) after they were disarmed?
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jumpoffdaplanet Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hamas will when Dubai and the UAE does
it's only fair.
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. huh?
from jpost.com... can find exact link.


Mar. 2, 2006 23:22 | Updated Mar. 3, 2006 5:24
Israel's Zim sails into US ports dispute - on behalf of Dubai
By NATHAN GUTTMAN
Washington

The Israeli shipping giant Zim has plunged into the heated debate in the US over contracting six ports to a Dubai company by providing the firm with a strong endorsement.

In a letter to Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Zim chairman Idan Ofer has expressed support for the Dubai Ports World (DPW) company and vouched for its security standards.

In the letter, first reported by CNN, Ofer called DPW "a strong business partner" and praised its professional standards.

"We are proud to be associated with DP World and look forward to working with them into the future," Ofer wrote to Clinton in the letter sent last week, when the controversy first hit the headlines.

US lawmakers are trying to block the deal, which would provide the Dubai firm with contracts to operate six US ports. Democrats as well as some Republicans said the US should not outsource responsibility for security at the ports to DPW, because of the UAE's record on terror and the involvement of its citizens in terrorist attacks against the US.

The deal came under additional fire this week following a Jerusalem Post report revealing that DPW's parent company complied with the Arab boycott of Israel.

Ofer's letter touched on the most sensitive issue - security, which was the main concern of the deal's critics. "During our long association with DP World, we have not experienced a single security issue in these ports or in any of the terminals operated by DP World," he wrote, stressing that as an Israeli firm, Zim was especially aware of such issues.

Ofer was quoted on CNN saying that Zim's ships used Dubai ports, but that they did so under other flags. "DP World has been an industry leader with regard to security and works closely with us on an ongoing basis to maintain the highest security standards in all its terminals around the world," Ofer wrote.

The Zim letter was seen as a significant endorsement for the Dubai company, because Israel was known for its strict security standards. It helped DPW improve its image in the US and counter the criticism it faced because of the boycott policy.

DPW Chief Operating Officer Edward Bilkey told Congress Tuesday, in response to claims concerning the Arab boycott, that Zim was one of DPW's largest customers.

In the interview with CNN, Ofer confirmed that he had sent the letter to Clinton and said he also intended to send one to Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY). Both Clinton and Schumer have been among the harshest critics of the ports deal.

In the interview, Offer said his reason for sending the letters was to make sure the lawmakers knew that the Dubai firm had "first class people" and to put his support on the record. He also said he did not understand the controversy about the ports deal, since the final authority on issues of security rested with the US Department of Homeland Security and not with any private company.
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