Rocket on Ashkelon ends four-day lull in violence

[Looking4Light]

Here we go again.

Note that the four days referred to are the four days since the last Palestinian attack.

Another opportunity missed.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/963164.html

[Vegasaurus]

1. How dumb can they get? nt

[subsuelo]

2. About as dumb as their Israeli counterparts? nt

[pelsar]

3. no they're dumber...

even the most simplistic look at the immediate history of gaza since israel left shows clearly that if the Palestinians wouldnt shoot rockets at israel daily their lives would be a whole lot better.....

but it does require a basic knowledge of the events and time line....

[Phx_Dem]

4. It makes sense if you think about Hamas

Hamas is in the business of conflict. Keeping the I/P conflict going keeps them going. Any other approach (like negotiating a peace agreement or truce) is outside Hamas's scope.

[subsuelo]

8. On that I completely agree

I would also add, however, that the same can be said about the Israeli regime -- albeit for slightly different reasons. Any other approach, is simply not acceptable, and it has become like that for both sides. So we have illegal settlement growth, we have killings on mass scale, we have this facade of a peace process and a forgotten 'Road Map'.

Unfortunately, the cycle of violence towards one another has become accepted as routine business. There is a normalcy to it now, and the fear has become of actually stepping outside that cycle, into the unknown.

[Phx_Dem]

10. Without a real ongoing peace process

Israels position is to maintain the status quo, and by doing that they minimize Hamas's ability to create conflict. The roadblocks, checkpoints and security barriers all create a "sustainable" situation for the Israelis, which is all they can hope for right now. As the years go by the hope is that the Palestinian leadership will ultimately see the benefit of meaningful negotiations, and minimize or eliminate the involvement of groups like Hamas, who thrive on conflict.

This is why Hamas introduced the grad rockets into the equation, because they clearly understand that they must "up the ante" due to the success of Israeli "disengagement".

[Vegasaurus]

11. And as we keep highlighting

Hamas and the Palestinians continue to have more to lose. As Israel maintains its status quo, life becomes more and more miserable for the Palestinians.

This is why it would behoove the Palestinian leadership to take a good hard look at itself. Resistance has not improved life, but made it worse. Grad rockets will certainly not improve life.

Why is martyrdom for a political cause above food and medical care?

[subsuelo]

12. The 'status quo' just resulted in a massacre in a seminary

As well as over 120 dead Gazans. It would behoove both sides to take a good hard look at themselves.

[Vegasaurus]

13. I agree

But the side with more to lose has to compromise. At the moment, it refuses, even in the most benign of ways.

[subsuelo]

17. Both sides have to compromise

This is Conflict Resolution 101 -- if we want an end to the whole thing, both sides have to compromise. Failure for one side to compromise yet demanding the other do so will result in continued conflict. There is no getting around this most basic principle.

[Vegasaurus]

20. Yes, both sides do

But the "compromise", of "accepting Israel's right to exist" is first.

[msmcghee]

14. I think their stance and words . .

. . and violent actions have put them into a position where any softening of their belligerence, any accommodation at all to Israel - will be seen by their fanatical followers and the rest of the Arab world as a humiliating defeat for their cause.

There might have been a narrow window after Israel withdrew from Gaza for them to claim victory and express in a sense of gallant victory that now that they have vaquished Israel from their land (or part of it) that they are willing to magnanimously discuss similar options for the West Bank.

Unfortunately, such a view would not have been sufficiently fanatical and therefore would not have been possible. Religious-driven tribalism of that variety and intensity and the actions and mind-set it requires is an all or nothing affair. It can not exist side by side with diplomacy. You can't have a government that's a little bit religious fanatic - and a little bit cooperative with its enemies. When those elements are forcibly inserted into any government - one will soon destroy the other - which is what happened last summer between Hamas and Fatah.

Most western nations that have distanced themselves from and tried to isolate Hamas understand this. Israel certainly understands it. They know that there is nothing they can do except leave Israel or kill themselves that will be sufficient.

[hifalutin]

16. Don't you get it?

Hamas does not want the Palestinian people to have an improved life!

[azurnoir]

19. They have virtually nothing to lose

no state, very few jobs, little to no educational opportunity outside of Gaza, so just what is this more they have to lose? Or once again is that code for we can kill lots more of them than they can us?

[Looking4Light]

21. With friends like you

and Hamas, the Palestinians have gotten nowhere and will get nowhere.
Blaming Israel and the US for all their woes is a COP OUT.


It's been two years since Israel withdrew from Gaza.

1. How much housing has been built for "refugees" in the refugee camps?

2. How many new businesses have been started for the unemployed?

3. How has their educational system been improved?

4. How many development funds have been started, with aid from the filthy-rich Arab oil powers?

etc. etc. etc.

Pathetic

[Vegasaurus]

22. There is still more to lose

just look at the last ten years.

Think things were bad then?

Compare to now, or even to before Hamas and after Hamas.

[azurnoir]

23. And the worse conditions get

the more dangerous the situation becomes, it's that simple.

[Vegasaurus]

24. Becomes more desperate for the Palestinians, definitely

but for the Israelis?

The wall and checkpoint have prevented most of the suicide bombers. Of course, the terrorists are very persistent, and will still look for ways in to harm Israelis (like the Dimona and yeshiva murders), which is why the wall and checkpoints are necessary, even though they make life very miserable for the average non-terrorist Palestinian.

Israel will do what it takes to protect itself. I am sure the situation is not more dangerous than it was during the height of the 2nd Intifada . In fact, it is less dangerous for the Israelis, but much more miserable for the Palestinians.

That's what they need to look at. Violent resistance is making things worse for them. Time to try a new path.

[azurnoir]

25. Time to try a new path

like what? While I will agree that the violence is not justified, what would work?

edited to add-besides simply not shooting and hoping for the best?

[hifalutin]

15. Looks like

Hamas has just re-started that 'cycle of violence' not Israel.

[LeftishBrit]

7. I agree...

I don't have much respect for Olmert's brains; but either Hamas don't care about their own people, or they're a very special sort of stupid. Or both.

[subsuelo]

9. I have to say, if we want to make this into a dumb contest

Consider this: How dumb can it possibly be to extend the settlements into areas heavily in dispute -- a conscious, almost willful dousing of gasoline onto an already blazing fire? That, to me, takes a special sort of stupidity. Yet, it goes on. And on and on and on.

Note this is not an argument against the stupidity of Hamas. It just seems to me that we can easily get caught up arguing back and forth about who is dumber than the other, when there is clearly a thorough distribution of stupidity circulating both sides.

[azurnoir]

5. Do you realize that your thread title

and article title do not match? The title of the article linked to reads

Egypt FM: Cairo can forge truce between Israel and Gaza militants

but I would suppose that is not "newsworthy" for some or more hope? likely that the rocket will cancel that out, with of course the Palestinians or Hamas to blame.

The text referring to the rocket:

The rocket hit south Ashkelon only a few hours after Prime Minister Ehud Olmert toured the rocket-plagued city, warning that there is no way of assuring that the rocket fire on the city would not resume in the future.

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) took responsibility for the rocket attack. But Israel held Hamas responsible.

"Hamas controls Gaza and they are responsible for every missile fired from Gaza into Israel. We have no illusions as to the extreme and hateful agenda of Hamas," said government spokesman Mark Regev.

Olmert said during his visit that the rocket fire on Ashkelon could not be seen as an isolated incident, adding that the situation in Ashkelon could not be compared to Sderot.

Seems Olmert left things open in that last sentance

[Phx_Dem]

6. Ha'aretz has a habit of changing headlines

as they update the articles.

edit--the original article starts here:

Meanwhile, a rocket fired from the Gaza Strip struck southern Ashkelon on Tuesday, ending a four-day lull in violence that began directly following the terrorist attack at the Mercaz Harav yeshiva in Jerusalem last Thursday.

[azurnoir]

18. The article starts with "meanwhile"? n/t