Poll Shows Most Palestinians Favor Violence Over Talks

[Vegasaurus]

RAMALLAH, West Bank — A new poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Palestinians support the attack this month on a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem that killed eight young men, most of them teenagers, an indication of the alarming level of Israeli-Palestinian tension in recent weeks.

The survey also shows unprecedented support for the shooting of rockets on Israeli towns from the Gaza Strip and for the end of the peace negotiations between Palestinian and Israeli leaders.

The pollster, Khalil Shikaki, said he was shocked because the survey, taken last week, showed greater support for violence than any other he had conducted over the past 15 years in the Palestinian areas. Never before, he said, had a majority favored an end to negotiations or the shooting of rockets at Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/world/middleeast/19mideast.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast&oref=slogin

So the majority of Palestinians, not just militants, favor violence over peace. No wonder their lives continue to grow more miserable.

[subsuelo]

1. Poll shows Most Israelis Favor Violence Over Talks

VOA News

So the majority of Israelis, not just militants, favor violence over peace. No wonder they continue to suffer from attacks.



Edited to add: This post is only meant to show your reflection back in a mirror. (I do not actually condone the idea that victims of these attacks on either side should blame themselves.)

So tell me, are you comfortable with what you see in the mirror?

[Igel]

2. Mirror.

"Never before, he said, had a majority favored an end to negotiations or the shooting of rockets at Israel.... His explanation for the shift, one widely reflected in the Palestinian media, is that recent actions by Israel, especially attacks on Gaza that killed nearly 130 people, an undercover operation in Bethlehem that killed four militants and the announced expansion of several West Bank settlements, have led to despair and rage among average Palestinians who thirst for revenge."

"A new poll shows that 67 percent of Israelis support a large-scale ground operation in Gaza to stop daily Palestinian rocket attacks."

Here it is in the mirror:

"Never before, he said, had a majority favored an end to negotiations or the shooting of rockets at Palestinians .... His explanation for the shift, one widely reflected in the Israeli media, is that recent actions by Hamas, especially attacks on Jerusalem that killed 7 people, an undercover operation in Dimona that killed a woman shopper, and the announced threat of the renewal of martyrdom and resistance operations when possible, have led to despair and rage among average Israelis who thirst for revenge."

"A new poll shows that 67 percent of Palestinians support a large-scale ground operation in Israel to stop daily Israeli rocket attacks."

The mirror needs grinding.

[pelsar]

3. i dont understand....

is the poll wrong? do you disagree with its findings and conclusion?

[Shaktimaan]

4. No.

So the majority of Israelis, not just militants, favor violence over peace.

They favor peace and feel that they must go to war to attain it. Israel seeks an end to rocket attacks as opposed to "thirsting for revenge" which was credited as the Palestinian motivation. Israel's reluctance stems from the fact that the offensive would kill the peace talks while Palestinians have said that they actually favor ending negotiations, apparently out of anger and a desire for revenge.

[subsuelo]

5. "They favor peace and feel that they must go to war to attain it."

Now that's just nutty

[Vegasaurus]

6. Israelis don't seek revenge

They don't put killing Palestinians above their own health and welfare. It isn't a national goal.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. Calls in Israel for Revenge and Retaliation not being cooled

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/55446

[Shaktimaan]

20. ding ding ding!

You win the prize as the first person to respond to that statement. Congratulations.

Unfortunately it suggests that you don't/can't differentiate between the different motives that a nation can have for going to war. I suspect it is a common misunderstanding among those who automatically criticize Israeli responses to terrorism in that the act is the sole thing that's focused on without much concern for the rationale that lead to them.

War is a tool, albeit a tool that should be a last resort; only used when absolutely necessary. While war is horrible there are times when it is the only, or the best option available. Wars of conquest are uniquely immoral, such as Russia's invasion of Hungary or Germany. The Palestinians are engaging in a war of liberation whereby they seek to make the cost of failing to meet their demands too high for Israel to stand. But since they seek to liberate the land that comprises Israel that seems unlikely to happen.

Israel wants the rockets on its cities to end. There are three options. The permanent peace treaty available to the Palestinians does not meet their standards, Hamas is actually opposed to the two state solution, which is the biggest reason that peace negotiations seem unlikely and pointless. There could also be a cease fire where the status quo is observed. Unfortunately, all previous attempts at a ceasefire have not worked, even when Israel ceased settlement construction, removed settlements or tried to improve the living standard of the Palestinians. Mostly these actions provided greater opportunities for terrorism which the Palestinians took. The final option is war, the worst option for both sides, but the only one available now.

Let me put it to you. Right now most Palestinians support ending talks and engaging in revenge attacks. Aside from a large scale ground invasion, what could Israel do to end these rocket attacks?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. You know the old saying...

fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

[Vegasaurus]

16. Nothing like a little crassness to add to the discussion nt

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Ferfuckssake! It's a famous quote!

The word 'fuck' appearing is much less crass than the continual demonisation of the Palestinian people that pops up in threads...

[azurnoir]

18. Not like the crassness

of invoking the Holocaust when in an attempt to prove a point?

The Gazans get retaliation, because they refuse to stop their terrorism. I know you want Israel to do nothing, but Jews walked into ovens once, and aren't doing it again.

This is the kind of "crass" Finkelstein was talking about, so now we are to believe that Hamas is the equal of the Weirmacht?

[LeftishBrit]

7. Worrying; things are getting worse.

Previous polls were not so bad.

'The pollster, Khalil Shikaki, said he was shocked because the survey, taken last week, showed greater support for violence than any other he had conducted over the past 15 years in the Palestinian areas. Never before, he said, had a majority favored an end to negotiations or the shooting of rockets at Israel.'

Very sad.

'So the majority of Palestinians, not just militants, favor violence over peace. No wonder their lives continue to grow more miserable.'

I disagree with some of the implications of this sttatement, as this hardening of attitudes is very recent. Perhaps it is a response to the misery - or to propaganda operations that find a receptive audience under the circumstances. In any case, it is likely to make their lives even more miserable in the future.

[Vegasaurus]

8. It is very worrying

why are the majority of Palestinians in favor of shooting rockets at Israel? Is it that this is no longer the tactic of just militants, but the belief of the entire culture or society?

It is a worrisome trend, definitely, and means that again, life for the Palestinians will get even worse than it is now.

[subsuelo]

9. Oh please

Can we just drop the They-Asked-For-It attitude thanks.

It wouldn't be fair to suggest that Israelis who have been killed had asked for it, so it's not fair to suggest that Gazans being killed asked for it either.

I hope this isn't asking too much. Seriously

[Vegasaurus]

11. Of course it is too much to ask

The government of Gaza refuses to stop its terrorism. In fact, it is trying to escalate the attacks, and use larger and more dangerous rockets.

The Gazans get retaliation, because they refuse to stop their terrorism. I know you want Israel to do nothing, but Jews walked into ovens once, and aren't doing it again.

[subsuelo]

12. Fine

The government of Israel refuses to stop its terrorism. In fact, it is trying to escalate the attacks, and use larger and more frequent assaults.

The Israelis get retaliation, because they refuse to stop their terrorism. I know you want Palestinians to do nothing, but they've been ethnically removed from their homes, and aren't doing it again.


I will keep reflecting the mirror back until you see the fallacy in your thinking.

[Shaktimaan]

21. Your statement is wrong though.

Israel has in fact stopped retaliating in the past. In 2005 they left Gaza, dismantled the settlements and observed a cease fire for many months despite it being entirely one-sided, with attacks from Gaza being a daily occurrence.

I know you want Palestinians to do nothing, but they've been ethnically removed from their homes, and aren't doing it again.

How is one "ethnically removed from one's home?"

I will keep reflecting the mirror back until you see the fallacy in your thinking.

It is unlikely that a broken mirror will reflect much. This technique only works if the statements are still accurate after you transpose the words.

The main issue here is that the attacks continue despite Israeli policy changes towards the Palestinians. Policies that aid the Palestinians usually also give them increased opportunities for terrorism, which would not be a problem except they keep taking advantage of that fact to actually increase attacks. Israeli policies have no real relationship to rocket attacks, except when policy directly impacts terrorists ability to launch them.

[azurnoir]

14. A question

in your opinion do the results of this poll make justifiable any military action Israel might choose to take, including Lebanon style bombing, is there a limit?

No, I am not saying this what Israel will do, this is opinion only.

[azurnoir]

10. Worrying yes

Take a look at these two editorial by Bradly Burston in Ha'aretz, the difference in tone is obvious. People in extreme situations say extreme things, if say things go "smoothly" a relative term here and the polls taken of Palestinians still say the same thing, then worry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=203290&mesg_id=203290


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x205178

[hifalutin]

19. I was channel

surfing the news today and it was mentioned on MSM, at least twice, (can't remember which stations) putting the Palestinians in a bad light, saying they prefer violence and want to end the peace talks.