110 trucks of goods to enter Gaza Thursday

[Mosby]

Gaza - Ma'an - Israeli officials informed Gazans that the Kerem Shalom crossing in the south of the Strip would be open for the transfer of humanitarian aid for the third day in a row Thursday.

Assistant in the Ministry of National Economy Nasser As-Saraj said his offices were informed that 55 trucks of humanitarian aid, 25 trucks for relief agencies and 30 trucks for the private sector would be allowed to pass into the area.

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=33869

[amdezurik]

1. so enough children have died now?

[Mosby]

2. No one in Gaza is dying from lack of food.

[amdezurik]

5. Somehow I really doubt you say that

from 1st hand knowledge

[Behind the Aegis]

6. And you are?

If this were the case, it would have already been out.

[amdezurik]

7. at the very least i am not making stuff up

and dismissing the damage from those actions.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. But you are making up stuff.

Unless you have some proof that children have died of starvation in Gaza. No-one is "dismissing" any damage, you are just resorting to false information. And again, you have first hand knowledge?

[shira]

16. some recent pics from Gaza

from just 1-2 days ago:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=ar%7Cen&u=http://www.paltoday.com/arabic/News-30132.html&tbb=1

This ghetto in Gaza is clearly worse than anything else since Warsaw. Starving skeletons riding ferris wheels within the prison walls of the Gaza ghetto. They look so miserable.

[shira]

17. more pics from Gaza....just 4 days ago

http://www.paltoday.com/arabic/News-29934.html

you'd think these animals would be good for eating rather than mutilating and playing with.

but maybe it's a slaughterhouse that doesn't quite pass most inspection and health codes.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[azurnoir]

20. It is so nice to know you care so much

for what is happening in Africa especially when it can be used as antiPalestinian propaganda, yes there is famine going on in Africa and now a cholera outbreak adding to death toll. No what is happening in Gaza is not as bad or are you claiming that until it is nothing is wrong. I would have to guess by your standards the current economic crisis in the US nothing sure people are unemployed and losing their homes the number of homeless and hungry here is growing but geez just look at Africa how dare anyone complain

[Vegasaurus]

21. Those photos aren't "antiPalestinian propadanga"

They are to show the face of real famine and starvation, contrary to the lack of starvation in Gaza.

This doesn't minimize the misery in Gaza, but the children there are not starving.

In fact, they are riding merry go rounds or ferris wheels and don't look starving in the slightest, contrary to the children in Africa, who really are near death.

Accuracy counts.

And what the hell are you talking about with a comparison to the economic crisis in the US?

There is nothing I have said that gives you the right to draw assumptions about that. And, you are very wrong.

[azurnoir]

22. Yes photos from months ago

and I did not claim they were anti Palestinian propaganda to clarify what I said is that the only time this is brought up is as anti Palestinian propaganda or see those Arabs don't have it so bad other no one appears to give a flying ____.
Also I would be willing to bet you get photos similar to those which are trying to be touted as representing all Palestinians in the Sudan too, there are rich and poor in every country just depends on what idea you trying to push doesn't it, so far no one has been crass to claim that there is not starvation in the Darfur area of Sudan

[shira]

24. those photos are DURING the "starvation" times of the siege

just days ago, not months.

see post #23

[Vegasaurus]

26. Find me some photos of fat Sudanese children enjoying a day in the park nt

[IndianaGreen]

27. If all of you Israel apologists were subjected to an Occupation similar to what the Palestinians are

suffering at the hands of Israel, you will all be wailing en masse demanding to be free from the chains of oppression.

What we got here is a classic example of an oppressed people becoming the oppressor!

Get the FRAK OUT and return to your pre-1967 borders!

[Vegasaurus]

28. It wouldn't make a difference

The borders of 1967 are not what the Palestinians are after.

[IndianaGreen]

29. 1967 borders is what both sides are going to get, nothing more and nothing less

Damn all the religious assholes that will quote their respective holy books to justify a different outcome.

[pelsar]

30. its not a religious issue......n/t

[IndianaGreen]

31. The more reason why peace must be imposed from the outside

since none of the players have shown the maturity to deserve any of the lands in question. They are nothing more than unruly children with guns and, since they have chosen to destabilize the peace and tranquility of this planet with their petty bickering, they must be neutralized for the good of humankind.

[azurnoir]

19. Dated for 8/12/08 nice try n/t

[shira]

23. check for yourself 8/12/08 = Dec 8, 2008 not Aug 12, 2008

for proof, look near the bottom of the current day's webpage:

http://www.paltoday.com/arabic/

You'll see this too:

http://www.paltoday.com/arabic/News-29960.html

Looks like Sarah Palin would have fun with the locals killing livestock for sport. You'd think with all the starving skeletons, they'd have more practical purposes for the animals.

Like eating them.

[Vegasaurus]

25. Amazing with all the "Starvation" and "grass eating" going on in Gaza

that they would kill animals like this, just for sport.

But then again, one has to wonder why the leaders of Gaza believe it is more important to spend money on weapons and terrorism, rather than food and infrastructure.

[azurnoir]

3. Hate to do this but here it is

At this point in time I do not think any children have died as a result of the food blockade, suffered malnutrition yes perhaps some permanent damage to growth or brain development but not actual death, the Israeli government is careful about that you see as long as no death occurs from this it can not be said to be actual starvation or genocide, can't have that you know. That is why the sporadic food shipments allowed in as another poster said "keeping the skeletons alive"
You've got to understand the PR machine and word war going on here.

[pelsar]

9. actually its hamas that is being careful...they're better at PR than israel....

they keep their population quietly in their 'cages"...they shoot their kassams just enough to keep constant intl pressure on israel, while world and their friends ignore those simple facts:

its been clear for a long time now: no kassams.......borders open for food
(ignoring this fact, translates to "one can try to kill israelis with and thats ok, they're are more important things in life)

egypts opens the border for food with only a minimum of pressure
(this is the most interesting, because it shows how so many in the intl community prefer to play politics with the Palestinians health....i.e. use them to pressure israel. It also shows the hypocrisy involved, some have made it clear they would rather not pressure egypt, but have no problem in pressuring israel, because is "israels fault"...and the Palestinians continue to suffer because of it)

No Starvation..because the locals might actually riot or protest (despite the fact that hamas does actually kill protesters)

taxed tunnels imports...so they've been organized and now part of the econ system

Keeping travel limited...not letting is population go to mecca via egypt (perhaps they dont want any reporting of what they're actually doing in gaza?)

[azurnoir]

10. So Hamas is better at PR

If that were true your post would read much differently wouldn't it? Besides I did not say PR exactly either I said letting in just enough food to "keep the skeletons alive" that is not good PR but it is not as bad death from hunger either is it?
As far as this part goes

egypts opens the border for food with only a minimum of pressure
(this is the most interesting, because it shows how so many in the intl community prefer to play politics with the Palestinians health....i.e. use them to pressure israel. It also shows the hypocrisy involved, some have made it clear they would rather not pressure egypt, but have no problem in pressuring israel, because is "israels fault"...and the Palestinians continue to suffer because of it)

Been there done that but one last time for my part if Egypt wishes to open their border fine but they are obligated to do that either.

As far as the Haj goes from what I have read amas not allowing people to go has much more to do with the conflict with Fatah who made arrangements bot hiding thing and BTW if they were so good at PR they would not pull a move that stupid, doesn't seem very Islamist to me

And lest I forget the "taxed tunnels even you admitted that Hamas was probably not getting much out of that one.

[pelsar]

11. to be clarified in simple english....your avoiding the consequences

Egypt is not "obliged" to open their border.......so your against intl pressure for them to open the border...and provide humanitarian aid....and do you believe that no country should have intl pressure on to provide intl aid as a principle?

and to really clarify for this is the heart of the matter: I understand your saying that if israel wont open the borders, and egypt doesnt feel obligated to open the gates, as they've done in the past with minimal pressure, the consequence is for the Palestinians to "go hungry".. and your "ok" with those politics. i.e use the Palestinians to pressure israel, even though there is an alternative where they wont suffer.......and nobody gets hurt.

i dont think the question and the consequences can be any simpler.....and it does come down to a yes or no.....unless you want to avoid it. you seem not to like to accept the consequences of what you believe...as in this case.





the tunnels?....i couldnt say how much they're bringing in..i dont think anybody but hamas does....

i dont know why hamas didnt let them out, but i would guess they dont want people out who might say that they in fact have enough food, paid several thousands of dollars to leave and have no problem in returning.....it would really ruin the careful picture of ghetto/starving gazans that they have so successfully portrayed and so many believe.....(and what if some didnt return and started publicizing the actual goings on in gaza? a potential PR fiasco!!

[azurnoir]

12. A bit all over the place there

Egypt did open it's borders after minimal international pressure the word here being minimal, and there was another alternative that being food brought in by sea, rumor had it that Turkey one of Israel's allies was sending food in by sea. So much for the Left not caring about Gazans but being more interest in persecuting Israel there were alternatives.

And then the tunnels again Hamas does not run the tunnels as you have pointed out "the gangs" do, but I must conclude that in middle of this crisis you have hamas start a war with the gangs ostensibly to bring in food, oh the media field day with all the "oh the humanity" over the resulting human rights abuses, odd how despite the Hamas blackout of the media those stories always get out.

i dont know why hamas didnt let them out, but i would guess they dont want people out who might say that they in fact have enough food, paid several thousands of dollars to leave and have no problem in returning.....it would really ruin the careful picture of ghetto/starving gazans that they have so successfully portrayed and so many believe.....(and what if some didnt return and started publicizing the actual goings on in gaza? a potential PR fiasco!!

Not quite sure what your talking about but as far as starvation goes if you remember my comment that originated this discussion was that actual starvation was not taking place in Gaza because Israel was letting enough food to prevent that, keep them hungry but don't let them die.
My comment ended with understanding the word war and thank you for illustrating that perfectly, so much ado for saying that Israel was not killing Gazan children.

[shira]

13. abbas calls Gaza Siege a joke

http://english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4201&Itemid=50

Gaza / PNN - When President Abbas described the European solidarity ships arriving in the Gaza Port as part of a “ridiculous game,” organizers derided him for complicity in the Israeli siege.

Director of the European Campaign to End the Siege on Gaza, Dr. Arafat Madi said that while Abbas “doubts the intentions” of the activists involved in the Free Gaza campaign, “these statements do not represent the Palestinian people.”

In essence Abbas’ comments in question addressed the Israeli treatment of the current missions, particularly the issue of which solidarity ships are able to make it to Gaza.

Five European ships have arrived on four missions since August 2008. They have never been prevented from moving, although have been subjected to harassment on both land and at sea. People on board are often a mix of foreigners, Arabs and Palestinians, with Dr. Mustafa Barghouthi as example.

Three Arab ships were prevented passage last week while the fifth European ship arrived this week.

The first Arab ship to attempt to bring aid via sea to the besieged Gaza Strip was the Libyan “Al Marwa.” The Libyan Minister of Health reported that 300 tons of medical aid was on board. The Israeli administration prevented passage of the ship once it reached Gaza territorial waters telling its press that it did not know what the cargo really was, and that the ship could be “carrying weapons.” An Israeli spokesperson was quoted in the Israeli daily Ha’aretz as saying, “This ship is coming from an enemy country and it will be treated as such.”

Dr. Madi of the European Campaign accused President Abass of being misinformed when he said that the Israeli Embassy in Cyprus inspects the cargo of the European ships and checks the passports of the passengers. It is true that passenger lists are often available in group emails sent by campaign organizers, while it is the Cypriot authority that inspects the ships.

The Israeli administration has said in the past that it does not prevent the European ships from arriving to the Gaza Port because it does not want to give them any more fodder for publicity.

But last week after the Libyan ship was stopped, an Israeli government source recanted in Ha’aretz and said it was “a mistake to allow any in,” referring to the Free Gaza ships, adding that “it will not happen again.” However, it did happen again. A Free Gaza boat reached port this week and left on Thursday evening taking with it 11 students. Yet still, a ship carrying Eid Al Adha toys and Palestinian members of the Israeli Knesset was prevented from leaving the Jaffa Port late last week while a Qatari ship that set sail from Cyprus was also stopped.

The next Arab ship slated to attempt delivering aid via sea to the Gaza Strip will be coming from Lebanon. Jamal Al Khudari of the Popular Committee against the Siege and also a Legislative Council member said the Lebanese aid mission should set sail within 10 days. The next Free Gaza movement mission is slated for 18 December.

The humanitarian aid, including medical supplies and doctors, that the Free Gaza movement has brought into the Strip, along with much-needed media attention of the suffering of 1.6 million people, is crucial.

Whether President Abbas was attempting to insult the European campaign as organizers have accused, or whether he was pointing out the folly of the Israelis who block Arab, but not European, ships, opinion on the street is less muddled. In an informal opinion poll, not one person said he expected the Lebanese ship to make it to the Gaza Port. At the same time, few people doubted that the Free Gaza movement would experience anything other than free passage.

[Vegasaurus]

14. Most of sub Saharan African would be delighted to be under Gaza's "seige"

delivery of food, fuel, medicine (despite claims to the contrary) and money left for big screen TVs and motorcycles!

The refugees of Darfur would give their eye teeth for that type of seige (I am sure you have noticed what is going on all over Africa, and why the true genocide of the Sudan, with millions of displaced and murdered people, is much more tragic and real).

[pelsar]

15. i wasnt writing about the "left'...in this case

i was commenting on "your beliefs" that clearly stated that there should be no pressure on egypt to open its borders and you dont care either way.....i.e. you have a preference for pressure on israel and if egypt doesnt want to open its borders to help the Palestinians .....you dont feel that any pressure was necessary.....and the Palestinians will just have to wait for israel.....

but i did notice that you did recognize that gaza does have border with egypt and egypt can open the borders and bring in supplies...now how long did that take for you to acknowledge it?...one year?

[azurnoir]

4. This is truely good news thanks

meant to do this earlier sorry