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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine |
cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 08:04 AM Original message |
Cafe culture blooms in West Bank's Ramallah |
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LeftishBrit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 10:29 AM Response to Original message |
1. Encouraging news! |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 04:29 PM Response to Original message |
2. Have you been to Ramallah? |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:48 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. I was there many years ago |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 12:37 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. it's time to let people drive between Ramallah and East Jerusalem again |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 07:28 AM Response to Reply #5 |
6. That hinderence saved many lives |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 09:55 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Did you feel that way about East and West Pakistan before Bangladesh split off? |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 10:11 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. you are saying that Palestinians who want to travel through Occupied Palestinian Territory |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 02:59 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. They're BOTH assuming that the ONLY reason a Palestinian would want to travel |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 03:19 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. I must differ with you and Douglas on that one |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 04:09 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. thats closer to the truth... |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 04:17 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. '.i guess its a cultural thing' what culture are you talking about? n/t |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 05:00 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. different value system |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 08:46 AM Response to Reply #18 |
32. ok I've never thought of we're more important than them or more |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 03:53 PM Response to Reply #32 |
38. actually its more of: |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 04:07 PM Response to Reply #9 |
12. you really should stop demonizing us israelis.. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 04:10 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. I was only talking about those two posters |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 04:55 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. i admit i was exaggerating... |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 07:04 PM Response to Reply #14 |
21. I know you like to talk `for` whole groups of people BUT |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 08:06 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. I wasn't stopping you speaking for yourself |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 07:08 PM Response to Reply #14 |
22. 'Neither of whom, to my knowledge, actually lives in Israel' -(Ken Burch) |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 08:09 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. As far as I can tell from your posts, you are an American |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 08:13 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. Huh ?? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 08:38 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. The only reason I referenced where you lived is that pelsar claimed |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 09:09 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. ok nt |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 04:15 PM Response to Reply #12 |
15. I was talking about 2 posters but is the reasoning different? |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 05:05 PM Response to Reply #15 |
19. of course its for our protection.. |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 02:44 PM Response to Reply #19 |
36. Douglas already said it others have said it and I've said to you many times before |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 03:47 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. thats a discussion that never happens....its avoided like the plague.... |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 04:30 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. no it is a conversation we have had before |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 11:13 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. as i said....its never happened... |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 04:43 PM Response to Reply #43 |
53. I misunderstood you wish to discuss why Israeli nationalism and landownership |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 07:56 PM Response to Reply #37 |
41. Simplistic? You mean what by that statement, and there is more than |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 11:07 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. even more simplistic your argument.... as simple as it gets |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 06:51 AM Response to Reply #42 |
44. The complexity factor, yea right. Your statement was void of ANY |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 08:02 AM Response to Reply #44 |
45. read s l o w l y...(i shall quote myself) |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 08:10 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. You know darn well I am referring to the post of yours I responded to initially. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 08:33 AM Response to Reply #46 |
47. ahh....now i understand..... |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 11:49 AM Response to Reply #47 |
48. In your assessment that is the real discussion, at least lets be clear |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 12:27 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. yes we are clear...the discussion that is missing... |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 12:47 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. It would be helpful if you would cease telling me what I will not, have |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 01:58 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. i must have missed them? |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 04:15 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. There was more info within the link but you may not have read it, and |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 05:10 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. my concern is the actual real events on the ground... |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-11 05:18 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Very telling, thanks for sharing The facts on the ground |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-11 12:17 AM Response to Reply #55 |
56. thats it? |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-11 07:54 AM Response to Reply #56 |
57. I haven't ignored anything, quite the contrary. I have read your response |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-11 11:09 AM Response to Reply #57 |
58. i am not interested in convincing you...i am interested in |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-11 11:32 AM Response to Reply #58 |
59. Sharon epeatedly said Gaza withdrawal would help consolidate Israel's control in the West Bank |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 12:31 AM Response to Reply #59 |
62. wow...so insulting? |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 12:40 AM Response to Reply #62 |
63. thanks for the chart |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 02:45 AM Response to Reply #63 |
64. so you believe in the "all or nothing" viewpoint.... |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 02:56 AM Response to Reply #64 |
65. I think you need to take a valium |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 03:07 AM Response to Reply #65 |
66. how about continuing...or is it time to ignore the posts... |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 03:47 AM Response to Reply #66 |
67. a state based on 22% of their homeland is hardly all or nothing |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 04:45 AM Response to Reply #67 |
69. if your going to "quote" |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 04:53 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. of course I want all attacks to stop NOW. but for this to hold there has got to be an end to |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 05:02 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. this is a discussion based on realism not Utopia.... |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 05:09 AM Response to Reply #71 |
72. obviously the attack should stop NOW - if for no other reason than they do no good and |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 05:24 AM Response to Reply #72 |
73. So Israel vacates and the extremists (running Hamas and the PLO) view that as Israeli weakness... |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 06:04 AM Response to Reply #73 |
74. frankly, I believe it would help a lot to see a peace treaty between Syria and Israel |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 03:01 PM Response to Reply #74 |
80. What would Israel have to do to satisfy Syria, Iran and Hamas, in your opinion? n/t |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 03:37 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. are Syria, Iran, Hamas, did you forget Hezbollah all the same in your mind? |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 04:40 PM Response to Reply #80 |
82. it is no big secret what needs to be done to achieve an agreement with Syria as President Clinton |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 09:06 AM Response to Reply #72 |
76. i asked about the Palestinian obligation... |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 09:31 AM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Mr. Sharon openly stated that the purpose of the Gaza withdrawal was to consolidate Israeli |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 11:09 PM Response to Reply #78 |
83. you still dont include. the facts... |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-16-11 01:20 AM Response to Reply #83 |
86. anyway,once again thank for the chart and the additional information YOU provided and YOU referenced |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-16-11 05:27 AM Response to Reply #86 |
88. yes, i'm not afraid of facts, nor hide from them nor make them up... |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 02:38 PM Response to Reply #69 |
113. Israel did not leave Gaza, obviously. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 04:38 AM Response to Reply #64 |
68. Yes, he believes in all or nothing - Israel vacates everything and the PA needs to do nothing |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-11 04:13 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. You live in Israel? If the answer is yes, I don't understand why you're |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 12:19 AM Response to Reply #60 |
61. yes i live in israel... |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 07:57 AM Response to Reply #61 |
75. Your culture, nor anyone else's would prevent them from understanding |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 09:25 AM Response to Reply #75 |
77. the PA/israeli relationship is not based on "faith" |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 09:53 AM Response to Reply #77 |
79. You mentioned previously about a "left" perversion of reality and do |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 11:20 PM Response to Reply #79 |
84. yes nationalistic |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-16-11 01:35 AM Response to Reply #84 |
87. well yes - nationalism and civil rights |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-16-11 09:51 AM Response to Reply #84 |
89. As defined by you, nationalism equates with land ownership and |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-17-11 04:21 AM Response to Reply #89 |
90. back to gaza... |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-17-11 12:31 PM Response to Reply #90 |
91. I presented for you indisputable evidence regarding the |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 05:37 AM Response to Reply #91 |
92. no you have avoided economics 101....and the question |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 07:50 AM Response to Reply #92 |
93. Choices are voluntary within given frameworks. The severe limitations |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 09:22 AM Response to Reply #93 |
94. you've contradicted youself.. (typical of your posts) |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 09:47 AM Response to Reply #94 |
95. Don't put words I did not say pelsar, do that again and this conversation |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-19-11 03:49 AM Response to Reply #95 |
96. its called clarification.. |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-19-11 09:39 AM Response to Reply #96 |
97. In your opinion pelsar my answers are non committal. You don't |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-19-11 10:51 AM Response to Reply #97 |
98. how about an application? |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-19-11 12:04 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. I have given imo, clear responses pelsar and you are free to make |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-19-11 01:35 PM Response to Reply #99 |
100. and so it ends...every time....here |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-19-11 02:45 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. I did explain myself pelsar, you may not appreciate my answers and |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 02:54 PM Response to Reply #101 |
104. ooops...its those damn facts again |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:09 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Thanks for the link here is an excerpt |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 03:19 PM Response to Reply #104 |
114. You can go back and read what I said and what I posted about |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 02:20 PM Response to Reply #56 |
112. What business do the settlers have on seized land that doesn't belong to them? |
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ellenrr (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:07 AM Response to Reply #12 |
102. true, but it is honest to call a devil a devil |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 06:22 AM Response to Reply #102 |
103. But Halper and Pappe are devils. |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:11 PM Response to Reply #103 |
106. OMG the Totalitarian (Stalinist) Left !!!!!! |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 06:48 PM Response to Reply #106 |
107. Nothing new. Liberals like Bernard-Henri Levy have written about it. |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:25 PM Response to Reply #107 |
108. yes we know shira criticism of Israel (occupation) is rooted in antisemitism |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 08:19 PM Response to Reply #108 |
109. None of those sources say criticism of Israel is antisemitic. |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 11:59 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. Let's start with Bernard-Henri Levy |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 03:31 PM Response to Reply #110 |
115. BHL and Glavin are both liberals who criticize Israel, are against settlements/occupation... |
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Jefferson23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 04:47 PM Response to Reply #107 |
116. Just so anyone reading this can decide for themselves Cohen's credibility on just about anything. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 06:46 PM Response to Reply #9 |
20. Not saying that at all... |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 11:27 PM Response to Reply #20 |
30. no the PA is not dedicated by charter to the destruction of Israel - don't be ridiculous |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 11:53 PM Response to Reply #9 |
31. I really don't think so. |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 05:27 PM Response to Reply #31 |
40. Great Post |
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LeftishBrit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 09:30 AM Response to Reply #9 |
33. I disagree here |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 10:05 AM Response to Reply #33 |
34. Israel is within its rights to build a barrier on Israeli land - not on Palestinian land |
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LeftishBrit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-12-11 11:15 AM Response to Reply #34 |
35. I agree with the main points of this - it's more the attribution of motives that I was arguing about |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 02:17 PM Response to Reply #7 |
111. You think using false terms can change the reality of an occupation? |
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Lithos (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 11:18 PM Response to Original message |
4. Very good news |
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Mosby (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 03:17 PM Response to Original message |
10. Ramallah would make a great capitol of Palestine. |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 07:11 PM Response to Reply #10 |
23. Agreed , seems to be heading in that direction nt |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 08:14 PM Response to Reply #10 |
27. Tel Aviv would make a fantastic capital of Israel... |
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King_David (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-11 11:20 PM Response to Reply #27 |
85. The difference is that Israel already has a Capital |
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