Hamas police break up pro-bin Laden rally in Gaza

[azurnoir]

Gaza's Islamist rulers Hamas on Saturday broke up a Salafist protest against the killing of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in a U.S. raid in Pakistan this week.

<SNIP>

Hamas police forces cordoned off the square, stopped protesters from marching through the streets and ordered them to leave.

Hamas's head in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh had denounced bin Laden's killing as an assassination "of an Arab holy warrior".

Analysts said he was trying to cool tensions with Salafist groups who consider Hamas too moderate and call for a fundamentalist version of Islam based on the faith followed by its founders.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-police-break-up-pro-bin-laden-rally-in-gaza-1.360382

[Boojatta]

1. Related news: In Egypt, 200 Salafists honor bin Laden ...

... according to an article at reuters.

[azurnoir]

2. well stop the presses cause 200 Egyptians out of 83,000,000

is representative of ?????

[King_David]

3. You try very hard

to minimize the support of Bin Ladin every time someone posts an article.

How come ?

[JonScholar]

4. The articles are attempting to make it look like Osama bin Laden has/had popular support among arabs

When he clearly doesnt. 200 people is an incredibly small protest. Why bother even giving it coverage unless you're trying to paint a picture of Arabs as supportive of Al Qaeda's cause

[King_David]

6. There have been articles posted

With clear support from the Hamas leadership.

[azurnoir]

7. clear support for bin Laden or clear anger at American actions?

or something else that is addressed in the OP?

and on that thought are we to assume that anger at America for killing bin Laden equates to support for bin Laden?

[oberliner]

8. Clear support for Bin Laden

"We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior. We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs."

[azurnoir]

10. do you believe Hamas supports al Qaeda ? n/t

[oberliner]

11. Al-Qaeda has infiltrated Gaza with help of Hamas, says Abbas

Al-Qaeda militants have infiltrated the Palestinian territories with help from Hamas, according to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian President.

The charges are the most serious yet in the war of words between Mr Abbas, who controls the West Bank, and Hamas, whose Islamist guerrillas expelled his Fatah-dominated security force from the Gaza Strip last summer.

“Al-Qaeda is present in Gaza and I’m convinced that they (Hamas) are their allies,” said Mr Abbas in an interview with al-Hayat, a London-based Arabic newspaper. “I can say without doubt that al-Qaeda is present in the Palestinian territories and that this presence, especially in Gaza, is facilitated by Hamas.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3447261.ece

[azurnoir]

12. Nice article from 3 years ago less than 1 year after Hamas booted Fatah from Gaza

but I suppose we should take that as the final word, as ther could have been absolutely no political reasons for Abbas to make such a statement, right?

oh and now that there is unity we should also assume that Abbas too supports al Qaeda?

[oberliner]

14. The Hamas statement in praise of Bin Laden is from a few days ago

Not sure how much more recent there can be than that.

[azurnoir]

18. ya we know that and it was addressed in the OP wasn't it? n/t

[azurnoir]

13. but wait there's more-Hamas crushes 'al-Qaeda uprising'

Mayhem in Gaza: After hours of fighting Friday, Hamas' security forces were able to crush an uprising by gunmen associated with al-Qaeda, in the wake of a provocative speech by a local imam critical of Gaza's current rulers.

At least 16 people were killed in the clashes and more than 80 were reportedly wounded.

Earlier, the leader of the radical Salafi faction in Gaza, Abdul Latif Musa, slammed Hamas' conduct as not sufficiently Islamic, as he declared the Strip an "Islamic emirate" and pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3762017,00.html

[oberliner]

15. How did all those "gunmen associated with al-Qaeda" get into Gaza?

Any theories on that?

[azurnoir]

17. I think they're homegrown for the most part n/t

[oberliner]

16. And of course, Hamas denies this group has anything to do with Al-Qaida

Do you even read the articles you post?

To wit:

Hamas Spokesman Sami Abu-Zuhari addressed the fierce clashes in Rafah, characterizing the views presented by the Salafi faction as "ideological deterioration."

"This group has no connection to any outside organization," he said.

[azurnoir]

19. more from the article and the complete statement you paraphrased

Earlier, the leader of the radical Salafi faction in Gaza, Abdul Latif Musa, slammed Hamas' conduct as not sufficiently Islamic, as he declared the Strip an "Islamic emirate" and pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.


"This group has no connection to any outside organization," he said. "No element or group has the authority to take the law into its own hands, and those who do not respect that will be dealt with by the security establishment."

however none of this indicates any connection between Hamas and al Qaeda, in fact it indicates quite the opposite

also there really is not much indication that al qaeda operatives have infiltrated Gaza to much of a degree

[oberliner]

20. Who exactly are the Salafists?

What if any affiliation do they have to Al Qaida in your opinion?

[azurnoir]

21. the Salafi are Islamic fundamentalists who believe in complete rule of Islamic law

they attack Hamas for not being Islamist enough. Salafist groups are causing problem through out the region, In Yemen and in Egypt where they are blamed for an attack on a Coptic church over the weekend, the Egyptian government quickly arrested the Salafists and restored relative quiet to the village where this took place

eta the Salafist group in Gaza are responsible for the murder of activist Vittorio Arrigoni

[oberliner]

22. Salafis have come to be falsely associated with the jihad of Al-Qaeda

A majority of Salafi scholars stand firmly against the present-day manifestations of jihad, particularly as it relates to terrorism and the killing of civilians and innocents. They hold their opinion as:

No individual has the right to take the law into his own hands on any account. Even the closest of Prophet Muhammad's companions never killed a single of his opponents even when invectives were hurled at him day and night in the first thirteen years of his Da'wah at Makkah. Nor did they kill anyone in retaliation when he was pelted with stones at Ta'if.

Despite their stand against wanton violence, in recent years, Salafis have come to be falsely associated with the jihad of Al-Qaeda and related groups that advocate the killing of civilians, which are opposed by most other Muslim groups and governments, including the Saudi government. Debate continues today over the appropriate methods of reform, ranging from violent "Qutubi jihadism" to lesser politicized proselytizing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi#Modern_use

eta This is just what I'm reading on Wikipedia - if you have more first-hand knowledge, please share.

[azurnoir]

23. that is what one wiki entry says but another says this

Whereas "Salafists originally are supposedly not violent," and the Salafis Gilles Kepel encountered in Europe in the 1980s were "totally apolitical", by the mid 1990s he met many who felt jihad in the form of "violence and terrorism were justified to realize their political objectives". The combination of Salafi alienation from all things non-Muslim—including "mainstream European society"—and violent jihad created a "volatile mixture".<1> "When you're in the state of such alienation you become easy prey to the jihadi guys who will feed you more savory propaganda than the old propaganda of the Salafists who tell you to pray, fast and who are not taking action." <1>

According to Kepel, Salafism jihadism combined "respect for the sacred texts in their most literal form, ... with an absolute commitment to jihad, whose number-one target had to be America, perceived as the greatest enemy of the faith."<3>

Salafist jihadists distinguished themselves from salafis they called "sheikist", so named because they had (according to the jihadists) forsaken adoration of God for adoration of "the oil sheiks of the Arabian peninsula, with the Al Saud family at their head". The sheikists' theorist was Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz "the archetypal court ulema ". These false salalfi "had to be striven against and eliminated," but even more dangerous was the Muslim Brotherhood, who were (jihadists believed) excessively moderate and lacking in literal interpretation of holy texts.<3>

Another definition of Salafi jihadism, offered by Mohammed M. Hafez, is an "extreme form of Sunni Islamism that rejects democracy and Shia rule." Hafez distinguished them not only with apolitical and conservative Salafi scholars (such as Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani, Muhammad ibn al Uthaymeen, Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz and Abdul-Azeez ibn Abdullaah Aal ash-Shaikh), but from the sahwa movement associated with Salman al-Ouda or Safar Al-Hawali.<4>

According to Mohammed M. Hafez, contemporary jihadi Salafism is characterized by "five features" -

* immense emphasis on the concept of tawhid (unity of God);
* God's sovereignty (hakimiyyat Allah) which defines right and wrong, good and evil, and which supersedes human reasoning is applicable in all places on earth and at all times, and makes unnecessary and unIslamic other ideologies such as liberalism or humanism;
* the rejection of all innovation (Bid‘ah) to Islam;
* the permissibility and necessity of takfir (the declaring of a Muslim to be outside the creed, so that they must either repent or face execution);
* and on the centrality of jihad against infidel regimes.<4>

Antecedents of Salafism jihadism include Islamist author Sayyid Qutb, who developed the idea that the Islamic world has been replaced by pagan ignorance of Jahiliyyah, and the group Takfir wal-Hijra, who kidnapped and murdered an Egyptian ex-government minister in 1978.

This page was last modified on 22 April 2011 at 19:31.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafist_jihadism

[oberliner]

24. Yes, Wikipedia is a joke

It's a wonder anyone uses it as a serious resource.

Contradiction abound.

I would love to find an actual source on this group that could provide real insight.

[azurnoir]

25. I think that has already happened on another thread

concerning additional statements from Meshaal on the death OBL the thread is entitled

Hamas's Meshaal: U.S. had no right to kill bin Laden

you may be familiar with it, albeit it has been pushed down the title page for some reason

[oberliner]

26. Thanks - I'll check it out!

Any more information about that group would be helpful.

There seems to be a good deal of contradictory stuff floating out there.

[azurnoir]

27. Be sure to it is an interesting read indeed

so much so that I have copied and saved it

[JonScholar]

9. It's a protest over how he was killed, they see it as a western assassination

It's not clear whether the protesters support Al Qaeda's ideologies. And no, calling a "holy warrior" doesn't necessarily mean they supported his actions. They could simply be calling him that because of the fact that he was killed by the US, not because they approve of 9/11 or anything like that.

Of course the Western press will be quick to jump to that conclusion

[azurnoir]

5. self delete too flippant and open to interpretation n/t