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Edited on Fri May-21-04 05:36 PM by Darranar
I didn't say Israel was formed in 1922, I said a Jewish homeland was founded in Palestine in 1922. Just a place to immigrate to, because obviously Europe at the time wasn't a good place for them to be.
What particular "Jewish homeland" would you be referring to? There was no entity in modern times that could be considered a "Jewish homeland" until 1948, with the creation of Israel.
You may be thinking of the British division of the Mandate into Transjordan and Palestine, occuring in 1920.
The partition plan was in 1947/48, you are correct, but I was referring to the 26 years in between, where Jews lived freely throughout Palestine. I was not making an Israeli Nationalist whatever whatever rant.
Jews have lived in Palestine for thousands of years, though, until the Zionist movement, the population there was rather small (and, for what it's worth, largely anti-Zionist). Whether or not they lived freely is another matter entirely, but I do not know of any reason that the twenty-six years between 1922 and 1948 should have been any freer than the others.
To say Israel conquered land in the war of '48 is misleading. Jews and Arabs at that time were mingled throughout Palestine. Just because a partition plan is enacted doesn't mean Jews disappear from the West Bank or the Palestinian areas of the Negev. And it's presumptuous to say Jews conquered land in '48, they merely defended their cities and communities. If you compared a map of the '47 partition plan vs. a map of the post '49 war, it looks like Israel conquered land. All they did was defend Jewish communities, and establish meager buffer zones between them and their aggressors.
Personally, dispossesing large numbers of the indigenous inhabitants doesn't seem to count as "defense", but that's beside the point.
Regardless of your opinion of Israeli actions during the 1948 war, they ended up with more territory than they were allotted under the 1947 Partition Plan. As such, they conquered land.
If you believe Israel attacked first in the six-day war, assaulting Arabs while surrounded by their enemies, than let's agree to disagree. And when I said "Palestine" attacked, I meant Palestinians joined the fighting with the Jordanians.
That Israel attacked first in the 1967 war isn't a matter of dispute; to the contrary, it is a historical fact. The debate is whether the strike was a justified pre-emptive strike or an act of aggression.
I understand your point about int'l law and acquisition of land via war, but maintaining a strategic vantage point over Syria in the Mountains of Samaria, and keeping at least the south bank of Golan is vital to Israeli security. Likewise, the West Bank is exactly that, the Western Bank of the mountains between Jordan and Israel. Releasing the WB to Palestinian control without at least some military presence on the Judean/Samarian hills would be suicide.
Israel is so powerful militarily in the Middle East that almost no border, and certainly not the Green Line, can be accurately labeled as "indefensible". With peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt, there is little cause for concern anyway, and it's highly unlikely that a Palestinian state will represent any real security threat to Israel.
If the Golan Heights are returned to Syria as part of a peace treaty, there will be no need for a "strategic vantage point", even if it is granted that there is a need now, a questionable statement.
Back to Gaza, I would like to reiterate that Gaza has no strategic value to Israel. The Suez Peninsula is a sufficient barrier to the south, and Egypt has been peaceful with Israel for 25 years.
No disagreement there.
Please don't misunderstand my views. I want peace in the Middle East, but peace between democracies is very different than peace with tyrranical neighbors. Israel may be the most powerful State in the Middle East, but with a population of around 8 million, all the military might doesn't do a bit of good. Syria's standing army is larger than Israel's entire reserves. It's a unique situation, so a unique approach is required.
Israel's population is actually six million.
Judging by recent statements by certain high-placed Israeli government officials, it is my assumption that Syria has a lot more to fear from Israel than Israel from Syria. The numbers don't tell the whole story, especially when you are dealing with a nation with nuclear weaponry.
Oh wait, Iraq launched 21 Scuds at Israel during the first gulf war in '91, and Israel stood it's ground at the U.S.'s request.
That should have read seriously attacked, my error.
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