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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:30 AM
Original message
Sanctions against the Israeli occupation - it's time
Report, ICAHD, 27 January 2005

"If apartheid ended, so can the occupation. But the moral force
and international pressure will have to be just as determined.
The current divestment effort is the first, though certainly not
the only, necessary move in that direction." -- Bishop Desmond Tutu

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about violence on the part of the Palestinians and yet reject effective non-violent measures against the Occupation that support their right to self-determination, such as economic sanctions. You can't condemn the victims of Occupation for employing terrorism while, by opposing divestment, thereby sheltering the Occupying Power that employs State Terror. You can't end the isolation and suffering of people living under Occupation while permitting the Occupying Power to carry on its life among the nations unencumbered and normally, by withholding a boycott of its economic and cultural products.

Sanctions, divestment and boycotts are absolutely legitimate means at everyone's disposal for effectively opposing injustice. As penalties, protest, pressure and resistance to policies that violate fundamental human rights, international law and UN resolutions, they are directed at ending a situation of intolerable conflict, suffering and moral wrong-doing, not against a particular people or country. When the injustice ends, the sanctions end.

Sanctions, divestment and boycotts represent powerful international responses that arise not only from opposition to an intolerable situation, but also to the complicity of every person in the international civil society that does nothing to resolve it. Because they are rooted in human rights, international law and the will of the international community, and because they are supremely non-violent responses to injustice, sanctions carry a potent moral force. A campaign of sanctions, even if it proves impossible to actually implement them, mobilizes what has been called "the politics of shame." No country wants to be cast as a major violator of human rights. Precisely because it is so difficult to enforce international humanitarian law, holding up its oppressive policy for all to see is often the only way of pressuring it to cease its oppressive policies. The moral and political condemnation conveyed by a campaign for sanctions and the international isolation it threatens sends a powerful, unmistakable message to the perpetrator: cease your unjust policies or suffer the consequences.

Rather than punishment, a campaign of sanctions rests upon the notion of accountability. A country threatened by sanctions stands in violation of the very principles underlying the international community as articulated in human rights covenants, international humanitarian law and UN resolutions. If we go by Amnesty's annual report, virtually every country could be "called on the carpet" for their human rights violations. A campaign of sanctions constitutes an extraordinary step, however. It is invoked when injustice and suffering have become so routinized, so institutionalized, so pervasive, so resistant to normal international diplomacy or pressures, that their very continuation compromises the very validity of the international system and the moral standing of its members, countries, corporations and citizens alike. And it targets the strong parties. The very basis of a call for sanctions is that the targeted country has the ability to end the intolerable situation. A campaign of sanctions embodies a fundamental principle of the international system: that each country must be held accountable for its policies and actions in light of accepted international norms. The message to all countries must be: Participation in the international community depends upon conformity to the "rules of the game."

More at;
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article3573.shtml


http://www.icahd.org/eng/

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Toronto Ron Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Why argue for this now?
Things seem to be looking better now: upcoming Sharon-Abbas summit, ceasefire potential, prisoner release, etc. Perhaps that should be given a chance?
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why not both?
As long as the Occupation continues,there's a case
for sanctions,& divestment,& boycotts. I hope this upcoming
summit will be the first of many,that there will be serious negotiations,
and a complete ceasefire.


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Toronto Ron Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Ok; presumably you argue elsewhere for
similar moves against the U.S., then? The invasion & occupation of Iraq has killed an order of magnitude more Iraqis than the number of Palestinian deaths in the history of the conflict.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Fine. But if Israel pulls out and
another suicide attack happens in Israel (or rocket, or "impersonal" bombing, etc.) traceable to a Palestinian tolerated militia or quasi-governmental body, what will happen? If the PA (or whatever it's called at the time) wrings its hands and says it makes them and Islam look bad, but does nothing else, is Schroeder or Chirac or Tutu going to either go in and force the arrest and trial of the perpetrator, or be willing to stand for murder as an accomplice?

Or, likewise, will they say how horrible it is, the universe again isn't fashioned as they in their infinite wisdom would have it be ... but since the PA has plausible deniability, they certainly can't argue for sanctions or punishment.

After all, at that point the targetted assassination of Jewish teenagers and babies won't be legitimate resistance anymore. Unless suddenly Tel Aviv becomes occupied Palestine, but surely no Palestinian would seriously argue with territorial sovereignty.

People want perfection. They like blaming just one side or another, and build a great scheme of justice and fairness on their skewed view of things. And then when things go awry, these same people vanish into the mists of abstraction and philosophizing.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. DIVESTMENT IS "FEEL GOOD" "BULL CRAP"
Disinvestment of the stocks in companies that do business in Israel is just plain dumb.


    1. Unless there is an IPO or a secondary offering in the works - disinvestment does not hurt the company.

    2. To the contrary - it just makes stock buyback more profitable.



The real way to bring pressure on these companies is to deny them your services - as in a "strike."

How?

Do what the elite universities and law schools are doing with respect to the military and other anti-gay employers --

    NO ON CAMPUS RECRUITING

    CLOSE THE UNIVERSITY PLACEMENT OFFICE TO THEM




This would be an act of moral courage.

Why -- because it would be calling for more then a mere token protest. It would be demanding a moral statement about your own career. It would be a demand that you actually take a stand instead of merely carrying a sign or posting on a blog.

Look at the companies to do business in Israel --- and the companies that specifically do not do business in Israel.

Now ask yourself:


    1. Which companies are the most pro-female - especially in promotion to significant positions of responsibility and leadership with commensurate pay? And don't forget "family friendliness" and "dual track careers."

    2. Which companies are the most pro-gay/lesbian/trans gender - at a "base level" with domestic partner benefits, and at a higher level the opportunities for promotion to significant positions of responsibility and leadership with commensurate pay?

    3. Which companies are the most pro-racial/ethnic minority - again, especially in promotion to significant positions of responsibility and leadership with commensurate pay?

    4. Ask yourself the "mirror" questions - the counterpoints - which companies are the least female friendly, the least family friendly, the least gay/lesbian/trans gender friendly, the least racial/ethic minority friendly.




NOW - HERE'S THE HARD PART - MATCH THE COMPANIES WITH:

(1) THEIR "PEOPLE" POLICIES, AND

(2) THEIR BUSINESS TIES IN ISRAEL

- AND IF YOU ARE SINCERE IN YOUR BELIEFS AND INTELLECTUALLY HONEST - PLAN YOUR CAREER ACCORDINGLY!


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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. LOL...
Divestment on your terms or not at all, eh?

Some of these rather laughable "arguments" are strangely reminiscent of what was said about divesting in SA.

The error of this approach is the attempt to tie all those discussing divestment to either Palestinians or Arabs. Or even that this approach is an endorsement of companies and/or nations that have thier own problems discriminating.

UC DIVESTMENT CAMPAIGN
Columbia University Divestment Campaign
Campaign to Divest From Israel
Welcome to HarvardMITdivest.org
UPenn Arms Divestment Campaign
Rutgers University Campaign for Divestment from Israeli Apartheid
The Divest from Israel Campaign: Join People of Conscience DIVEST ...
PC(USA) - 216th General Assembly (2004) - News - Assembly endorses ...
Yale University Divest from Israel Campaign

This is only the first page of 238,000 hits. Of course if you need help arguing against this there is always...


Divestment Watch - Leading the battle against the illegal divest ...
How You Can Counter Divestment Efforts

Cheers...
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. If you actually go through the exercise
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 07:29 PM by Coastie for Truth
with a little table - companies that do business in Israel and those that specifically avoid Israel

versus

companies that are progressive values friendly (female opportunities, gay/lesbian/transgender opportunities, racial minorities opportunities) and companies that are progressive values unfriendly

--- there is a pretty strong correlation.

"The data collection and tabulation is left as an exercise for the student"

    but a comparison of Intel or Microsoft with, by way of example, ExxonMobil (no domestic partner benefits - no business in Israel) or TexacoChevron (anecdotally not the best place for women or racial minorities - but no business in Israel) will illustrate my point

    but do your own data collection and tabulation


I have been in the private sector 35 years
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The elephant in the room is....
that companies that do business with Israel are supporting a regime that is not "progressive values friendly", period.

After coming to grips with that reality, it doesn't really matter how many angels you can get to dance on the head of a pin.

I have been in the private sector for 20 years, whatever that means. The "private sector" is not a sole owner of either moral fortitude or intellect. Quite the contrary.

The arguments still sound similar to those forwarded against SA divestiture in the 70s and 80s. They were wrong then...
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. What pray tell is "Big Oil Supporting"
Halliburton

Kellogg - Brown & Root

Kerr-McGee

TexacoChevron

ExxonMobil

ConocoPhillips

Unocal


They are the most racist, anti-female, anti-gay/lesbian/trans gender, African American in America --- and support the most repressive authoritarian regimes in the world.

I am in the (clean, green, photovoltaic and wind and fuel cell) energy industry -- I have dealt with them for 30+ years.

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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Don't follow this line at all...
the only thing keeping "Big Oil" from dealing with Israel (or any country they don't do business with) is the fact there is no oil.

The only reason "big oil" deals with any country is soley tied to the presence of fossil fuels.

Even mentioning them in this "exercise" is a canard.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Are you making an obtuse argument
that there are too many Jewish engineers?
that there are too many female engineers?
that there are too many gay/lesbian/trans sexual engineers?
that there are too many African-American engineers?
that there are too many Latino engineers?

Are you extending the argument that the Arab League Boycott Office boycott of US citizen, born in the USA job applicants is proper and that job applicants can be discriminated against based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or national origin?

I am not sure I follow your logic. The arguments sound similar to those against school integration or equal employment opportunity.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Don't follow this line either...
what does the ethnicity of engineers have to do with anything?

What does an Arab League boycott have to do with divestiture?

School integration/segregation? Equal opportunity employment?

I'm sure you can tie that into an independent decision to divest from Israel, but I'm not sure it will make much sense.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You are applying Shaygitz Goy Big Oil Logic
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 10:55 PM by Coastie for Truth
Opportunitires for ethnic, racisl, and sexual orientation minorities. That was the whole friggin issue of the 1960's.

The companies you would divest - are the very ones that employ females, African-Americans, Latinos, Jews, Gay/Lesbian/Trans Sexuals. The very companies you would keep invested have a very poor track record with females, African-Americans, Latinos, Jews, Gay/Lesbian/Trans Sexuals -- real Freeper, Texas, Shaygitz, Goy, Big Oil Logic (or is it real Freeper, Choate, Andover, Exeter, Ivy League Legacy, Restrictive Country Club Logic?)

Oh well - screw females, African-Americans, Latinos, Jews, Gay/Lesbian/Trans Sexuals.

BTW - in simple MBA 101 -- how does "divesting" put pressure on a company?

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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I am positive you are conflating 2 issues...
Edited on Sat Feb-05-05 12:25 AM by newyorican
Firstly, I've no idea what "Shaygitz Goy Big Oil Logic" is.

Secondly, I'm not discussing employment opportunities.

Thirdly, I'm not (nor is the divestiture movement) discussing the labor practices of any companies.

Divesting places pressure on the entire economy of the targeted country. That certain companies are caught up in the effect is further pressure on the targeted country to mend its ways.

The whole idea is to pressure a government to stop doing something objectionable. It's not simple MBA 101, it's simply geopolitical economics 101. Sanctions are enacted to pressure governments. Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Libya, N. Korea, Indonesia and South Africa are but a sampling of the countries that have been subjected to sanctions in our lifetime. None of those sanctions were put in place to endorse companies that discriminate. They were put in place to get the targeted government to change its behavior.

Your avoidance of the actual purpose of sanctions in general is puzzling, while your sojourns into questionably tangential topics is inexplicable.

On Edit: Well now I'm sorry I looked it up. Not very nice to use words found in the racial slur database to make a point. I'm sure there are more civilized ways to communicate.

Goy/Goyim - Whites - Used by Jews to describe White gentiles or non-Jews in general. The term "goyim" means "human cattle." Possible old Hebrew derivation from the word for nation (ie. nations other than we.)

Shagitz/Shiksa - Whites - These are commonly used words in Yiddish. They are the male and female form (respectively) of the older Hebrew word for worm or insect and as such are negative. They are also commonly used in an almost neutral way, but they are never complementary. Shagitz is pronounced "shaygitz." Term "Shiksa" used in Jewish religious books such as the Talmud when referring to white gentile women.


http://gyral.blackshell.com/names.html

BTW, the handle newyorican is mostly correct, but I'm 1/2 PR and 1/2 black to be completely accurate.

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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. incidental etymological note
Your list got the description of "goyim" wrong - it's definitely (rather than possibly) derived from the Hebrew word for nation ("goy"), which can refer to any nation (including Jews). It has nothing to do with "cattle", and is usually not used as a derogatory term.

The list is closer on shegetz/shiksa - both are usually derogatory, though they can also be used in a colloquial fashion (e.g., "shegetz" is sometimes used to refer to a misbehaving child) - but shiksa, AFAIK, does not appear in the Talmud (and if it did, it wouldn't refer to white women, considering where the Talmud was written) - the word is from Yiddish, which came far after the Talmud
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Since I introduced it into this thread
(and the one who introduced the thread is his own lexicographer), the terms were used in the sense of the old, anti-semitic, anti-African-American, anti-Latino "Aristocracy" who rule(d) this country -- and used such buzz words as "quotas" and "busing" and "neighborhood schools" to drive wedges between the members of the FDR, "New Deal" coalition.

These are the polo playing dudes from the energy companies, old-line financial service companies, prestige law firms, city clubs, country clubs, etc. that exclude us "outsiders."

For example "X, Y, and Y is a fancy, schmanzy, silk stocking shaygitz law firm full of goyim like Jim Baker" or "George Bush is a "Skull and Bones Yalie Shaygitz" like his father and his Nazi dealing grandfather.

I take as much umbrage at angry appender's selective lexicography (and at his wishing me unemployment or underemployment) as he does at my lexicography.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I'm sorry for your umbrage...
Whether the explanation for the slurs you've employed are accepted or not, it should be obvious, even to yourself, that if such explanations are required, the judgment in using such language is questionable.

At best it is misunderstood, at worst, it is misdirected.

Getting back to the meat of the topic, I believe I now see the tactic clearly. You will continue to purposely conflate sanctions against Israel with Labor practices in general and your own employment prospects in particular. To what end (other than confusing some) I do not know. You may continue on that line of debate (as you are free to do), but you'll continue without my participation, other than to call it for the diversion it is.

Penultimate point: Unless your employment is supporting the continued occupation in the WB, Gaza & Golan Heights, I really couldn't care less as to your prospects. If your employment does support the occupation, then I wish you luck on the unemployment line in a more productive and ethical line of work.

Last point: Do not have a fit of pique and then assume the person you are debating is angry. It is a false assumption and the essence of projection. (eg. Bad form)
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Disinvestment is silly
1. The cases you cited for "divestment" type sanctions - especially SA - involved "spin outs" or "spin offs" of local marketing subsidiaries --- NOT, research, development, design, or manufacturing facilities. The divestment sanctions as to companies doing business in Libya and Indonesia involved the sale of Libyan and Indonesian assets to affiliated companies (mainly in Italy) or shells/shelters in "tax havens." I am in the green, alternative, renewable energy industry --- and I do follow the machinations and tax avoidance games of big oil.

2. As to divestment of research, development, design, and manufacturing assets in Indonesia --- the border between Indonesia and both Malaysia and Singapore is porous, money is fungible, and Indonesia's research, development, design, and manufacturing infrastructure is closely related to the similar infrastructures in Malaysia and Singapore. Generally ineffective.

3. I am not conflating the subjects. I am saying that the companies that as a firm matter of corporate policy avoid doing business in Israel - also as a matter of policy are not Latino friendly, or African-American friendly, or female friendly, or Gay/Lesbian/Trans-sexual friendly. This has been my observation and experience through many years dealing with the main stream energy industry.

4. I see disinvestment as a crude sanction that will not end the occupation of the WB or Gaza or the Golan Heights. Talking with Israeli "techies" --- and Islamic "techies" ---- I see disinvestment as discouraging high salary, high value add industrialization of the PA's Palestinian State. I see the Palestinian State as being the "Next Bangalore" -- and based on the high tech industrialists I talk to -- disinvestment will set that back ---- materially.

5. I support human rights -- and lobbied to end discrimination against Latinos, African-Americans, females, sexual minorities, diabetics, and epileptics. Before the Americans With Disabilities Act - I was arranging testimony to support a state civil rights act on that issue. I also spent my time in a Louisiana jail.

6. In our consulting business we have a lot of African Americans, Latinos, females, and sexual minorities --- and Muslims. (Two of my thesis advisers were Muslims) I have been to an Eid-El-Fitr break the fast dinner --- have you?

6. My employment does not support any occupations anywhere in the world. My employment supports energy independence and an end to America's petroleum colonialism. As Israel's foes use the "oil weapon" and drive the price of crude up - my business is booming. We are putting in more wind power and solar co-gen and distributed gen installations. The best things that ever happened to me were being Jewish and being denied employment in the oil industry. :) If I had been hired by ExxonMobil or TexacoChevron - I would have been stuck on "optimizing distillation towers" for 40 years. :( This way, I feel that I have helped to create new technologies, and new industries - technologies and industries that do not kill people (how many engineers can make that boast -- "technologies and industries that do not kill people")
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. "Disinvestment is silly"
...now there is a winning argument...and its divestment, not disinvestment.

I believe Nelson Mandela would successfully argue otherwise. Without silly ol' divestment he would still be in jail on Robbins Island.

It's clear you either do not, or choose not to understand how divestment works. It starts with public funds and works its way into the private sector afterward. The target is very specific. Stop Apartheid (then), now stop occupation.

Is Israel that hooked on land that doesn't belong to them that they are willing to put their economy through the wringer? The same question, in reference to Apartheid, was asked of SA and for over a decade the answer was yes.

All of your points about the energy industry don't address that basic truth. Divestment is coming because of occupation. Only ending the occupation will end talk of divestment.

It's the occupation, it's the occupation, it's the occupation, etc...
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Hypothetical
And I do work with conservative, fuddy duddy, risk aversive, anal retentive, bankers and venture capitalists and lawyers.

Let's say some public employee plans and some universities divest their stock in companies that do business in Israel. What results

    1. When they sell their Intel, Microsoft, IBM, etc --- they will get hit by law suits from their retiree/beneficiaries. The law is clear (at least in the environmental area) -- that is a "wastage of trust fund assets." Would you (I don't mean you personally, I mean a conservative, fuddy duddy, risk aversive, anal retentive, banker or venture capitalist or lawyer on the Board of Director) expose yourself to the tender mercies of a trial lawyer in a non-frivolous law suit.

    2. Let's go a step further. I work with conservative, fuddy duddy, risk aversive, anal retentive, bankers and venture capitalists and lawyers --- and there is a lot of international money ready to fund the kind of development an independent Palestine needs. There is a risk premium attach to investing in Palestine.

      a) The money taken out of Israel is NOT going into Palestine - it will go to India or China - you know that, I know that, every Venture Fund manager knows that.

      b) The flight of money from Israel under a divestment will scare money away from Palestine - you know that, I know that, every Venture Fund manager knows that.


Abu Massen appears to be making progress.

Who benefits from divestment -- Indian and Chinese competitors of the target American companies - you know that, I know that, every Venture Fund manager knows that.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Now that is exactly...
the argument we saw presented in the 70s and 80s against divestment in SA.

It will hurt the SA blacks more than anyone else. Not that there was no impact, but it all stopped when Apartheid was abandoned. There is a very simple way to avoid this. Stop the occupation.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. When CalPers or UC sells its
Edited on Sat Feb-05-05 10:45 PM by Coastie for Truth
Intel, IBM, Xerox, Microsoft, HP, etc. stock --- I will be first in line at the Santa Clara County Court House with my lawyer --- suing each and every trustee of said CalPers or said UC Endowment ------ Promise --- you can take that to the bank. (and there will be others behind me).

And I will dump any fund I have that follows (and I am invested in "Green" "Save the Whales" "Working Mom Friendly" "African American Friendly" "Gay/Lesbian/Trans Sexual Friendly" funds) suit.

The nature of the businesses -- and their assets are entirely different. Not a valid comparison with SA.

And I am a liberal --- and I have been in jail in Louisiana. Think what Moderates and Conservatives will do.




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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. You think those companies...
you mention won't move to protect themselves? Long before CalPers makes a single move those companies (and many more) will make financial moves to protect themselves. Nobody will fall on the sword to support an illegal occupation. To believe otherwise is an error, and that's simple MBA 101.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Why do you assume it is an illegal occupation
My read of FM 27-10, the United States Field Manual 27.10, Law of Land Warfare, tells me that the subject land in question may be "occupied" -- but that it is not "illegally" occupied.

And that predates Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Gonzales, Perle, Wolfowitz, Bybee, etc.

As to "protecting themselves" -- they probably do that now through a series of tax shelters, off-shore subsidiaries, related companies, etc. So, what would divestment accomplish? Besides a "feel good."

Let me ask you a question --- which may or may not hit home. Hebrew University's Med School is further along the road to an embryonic stem cell based pancreatic cell treatment for childhood diabetes then any other research institution, check it out at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi.
Israeli developed. Profits go to an Israeli University's Medical School and an Israeli subsidiary of a major US drug company. If your child had juvenile diabetes --- would you use that Israeli therapy? How about an Israeli therapy for leukemia.

How about the video accelerator cells in your Centrino or Pentium or Motorola processor? Have you "soldered" those out yet?

A lot more would be accomplished by "denying your services" as in STRIKE. You still have not responded to my append at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=86289&mesg_id=86342&page=

and, when I got out of the service in 1969 - I did not even interview with munitions and armaments makers, and I did not respond to "unsoliciteds". So I voted with my career decisions.

CalPers ot TIAA-CREF divest -- I sue. Promise.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. To directly address your point 3....
If a particular company that now does business with Israel (those would be the ones pressured anyway) has labor practices that are, "Latino friendly, or African-American friendly, or female friendly, or Gay/Lesbian/Trans-sexual friendly", does successfully pressuring that company not to do business with Israel until the occupation is ended also force them to be unfriendly to all of the groups you mention? I fail to see how that works in any industry.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. If you object - don't work for them
I feel witholding your individuality, your creativity, your uniqueness, your "intellectual property" - your "YOU" - and taking it to a competitor -- is (if done by enough people) - power over them. Your going to a competitor could well be the "Profit/Loss" difference to the competitor.

Remember - we are not all really fungible and interchangeable.

That is exactly the point of protesting the "don't ask - don't tell" policies of the military by "closing the university placement." The military is prohibited from on campus recruiting at our best institutions.

That is exactly how our best academic institutions "enforced" the Civil Rights Act of 1964" -- they "closed their placement office."

"Closing The Placement Office" is just an incremental, logical extension of a strike. I put it on a par with the UFW or SEIU organizing drives.

Let me close on this point --- I would never seek employment with an employer who was anti Latino, anti Black, anti female, anti Semitic (Arab or Jewish - no difference from my Civil Rights viewpoint), anti Gay/Lesbian/Trans sexual, anti handicapper.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I have no idea who Rob Bealer is...
nor do I frequent the forum you mention.

Let's hope you are not a betting man.
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