The flu vaccine shortage + "security moms" = campaign issue

[Career Prole]

I'm watching "In The Money" on CNN and the CNN folks just jumped all over a business school professor over the flu vaccine shortage and it's gotten me thinking.
Here's a quote from the article:
The basic problem is that "we've lost most of our domestic manufacturers" of flu vaccine, said Richard Webby at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis. "When you're relying on two manufacturers ... and one goes down, you're up the creek."

Drug companies have pulled out of flu vaccine production because it's not very profitable and it's financially risky, health experts said.

There will be thousands who get ill this year because of this shortage, and arguably hundreds will die...and we knew it was coming!
On edit...boy were my numbers on the potential harm wrong!
"Flu kills an estimated 36,000 Americans a year and puts 200,000 into the hospital. The CDC recommends that elderly people, health care workers, children under 2 and people with chronic illnesses get a flu shot every year."
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=6357357§ion=news


Why will this happen to us? Because manufacturing vaccines "isn't very profitable" and is "financially risky".
Someone tell me how a flu outbreak is substantially different from a bio-terror attack outside of the lack of intention on Mother Nature's part...please!
We aren't protected against bio-terror because it's more important to protect domestic drug manufacturers' profits?
:wtf:
Kerry campaign! Open fire!! "Security moms" will love you for it!!

[MissB]

1. I'm not one to defend the drug companies, but

I would guess that the financial risk comes from relying on a specific strain of the flu. They have to guess which one will be prevalent - it's a wee bit of a crap shoot.

If they manufacture tons of dosages, and the prevalent strain turns out to be something different, then the dosages are not very good.

[captain disgruntled]

2. Well now here's something I found interesting--

the manufacturer in question, Chiron, is apparently based in California, but the plant that makes the vaccine is in Liverpool, UK. *They were struggling with contamination issues months ago*, a fact of which the FDA was apprised; the FDA apparently found the vaccine acceptable, but the plant was shut down by British authorities.
See the timing indicated in this article: http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=6357357§ion=news (dated 28 September).

"However, vaccine maker Chiron Corp. said last month it had found impurities in a few batches and held up production. This confused patients, said Carol Moehrle, Director of Idaho's North Central District Health Department".

One of the principal alternatives, Aventis, is a *French* pharmaceutical company.

[Career Prole]

7. Good article...

It bears up my argument that when the manufacturers get the virus strain wrong they don't take any risk.

Last year's early influenza season led to heavy demand for the vaccine. And health officials miscalculated, so the vaccine, which is made up of three different flu strains, did not protect against the most common and dangerous strain.

I also found out that I grossly underestimated the potential harm from not being prepared (in my initial post).

Flu kills an estimated 36,000 Americans a year and puts 200,000 into the hospital. The CDC recommends that elderly people, health care workers, children under 2 and people with chronic illnesses get a flu shot every year.

I'd better edit my "guesstimation" :)

Welcome to DU :hi: ...but why the asterisks around "French" in your post? I'm a French Texan, you might say, and I don't have asterisks.

[captain disgruntled]

17. Thanks for the welcome!

I used asterisks as I don't see an ability to italicize text here, and I found it somewhat ironic that our fall-back option in this case is a "Freedom Vaccine", that's all.

I couldn't find it anywhere, but I SWEAR I just read an article that mentioned that the FDA had been cautioned a couple of months ago that Chiron was experiencing the contamination problems. Curious that it's all a big surprise now.:shrug:
Just something to consider in light of weighing the significance of this shortcoming to the "Security Moms".

[Career Prole]

19. The surprise came from the Brits. The FDA said "Okay" but their

British counterpart said "No-kay". They just said it a lot later than folks expected. Try the Business section at yahoo news. You'd probably be able to turn something up there.

"Freedom Flu"...LOL! I can hear it already!

[Career Prole]

3. And that might cut into their profits a bit, if at all.

Every flu vaccine manufacturer takes the same "risk", and it isn't that much of a risk if at all. During last year's vaccination season we were told the vaccine wouldn't be as effective because CDC had been off a bit on the strain. In other words, I paid full price for a less-effective shot. The vaccinated public absorbed the full cost of the "risk".
That's not the point though, missb...the point is we are woefully unprepared for manufacturing large quantities of vaccines even given fair lead time because there's no money in it for the drug manufacturers.
The drug companies, one of shrub's favorite charities, are leaving us wide open on this to save a buck...and let' face it, they're not in any position to be doing the poor-boy shuffle. They "even have money in their crap", as my dear departed Democrat dad would say.

[ant]

4. you touch on an even bigger point, I think

The "risk" of leaving public health issues at the mercy of a free market.

(I'll also note, just so it's mentioned, that a lot of the risk for almost any medicine is absorbed by the public since the more fundamental R&D for any drug is usually paid for the government.)

[Career Prole]

10. A very real risk indeed.

And you did well pointing it out.
Repukes see no harm in the government keeping a close eye on the general public...that's just "patriotic patriot act common sense in a post-9/11 world".
Even mention the government keeping an eye on business, though, and watch repukes go off like bottle rockets!

[mzmolly]

9. When it comes to vaccines the mfgrs and the cdc always claim that it's

"not about making money" ... they are frankly full of shit. The drug companies are a profit industry and the bottom line is the bottom line.

:(

[Career Prole]

12. Right you be, mzmolly...

But don't use this emoticon :(...
use this one :grr:
The madder, the better.

[undercover_brother]

5. Stop promoting Republican talking points

"Security Moms" is simply a Republican talking point. There is no need to justify it with more rhetoric.

[Career Prole]

8. Did I not use quotation marks around it? I could've sworn I did.

Got any idea how many "security moms" will vote for the chimp because they think they'll be "safer" with him?
Does it not make sense to you to point out the error in their thinking?
Thanks for the scolding, though...nothing I enjoy more than a good scolding from a new guy on a Sunday afternoon!
Welcome to DU! :hi:

[undercover_brother]

11. I still don't believe Republican talking points deserve discussion

Why let Republicans dictate the discussion when more important topics are at hand.

[Career Prole]

13. Pardon me...but do you actually think campaigning is about the base

and no one else? If you do, you're dead wrong, partner.

[undercover_brother]

14. huh?

[Career Prole]

15. I see. It didn't sound like you understood, from the scolding I got from

you. "Security moms" are a fairly recent phenomenon, but there is no doubt they exist, and many will likely vote for shrub because of their perception that shrub somehow makes them safer.
Every one of them that our campaign can swing over to Kerry is two votes...one away from shrub, one for Kerry.
Women have always been a large part of the Democrat base.
Those of these "security moms" who are leaning towards shrub solely over the security issue can be leaned right back towards Kerry with just a little push such as this.
Only part of the campaign involves getting out your base. You also need to attract uncommitteds and sway leaners to take votes away from the other candidates.

[undercover_brother]

28. "Security Concious Americans" know better than to be endangered by Repubs

There is no such thing as a "Security Mom", only "Security Concious Americans". Security is an issue which ALL voters deal with in their own way. Republicans attempt to do hostile takeovers of themes like religion, patriotism, family values, etc. This is yet another attempt by them to claim to be the party which exclusively protects families. By calling it "Security Moms" they try to touch on the paternal heart strings of women, who tend to vote not based on machoistic Republican talking points but instead on more thoughtful issues. By us the media and the rest of us continuing to call "Security Concious Americans" "Security Moms" we are further promoting this Republican Party distortion. There is no need to constantly allow Republicans to dictate the conversation simply because they send in a dozen Republican legislators to hit the Sunday morning talk shows and regurgitate identical talking points.

There is no such thing as a "Security Mom". This is a rally cry for the Republican Party and Fox News loves to spread the word to rally voters to their side. There ARE "Security Concious Americans" who will vote based in a large part to their government fead, color coded paranoia. For those people we just need to continue to educate them on the historical benefits of international cooporation in dealing with enemies such as happenned in WWII and Desert Storm. "Security Concious Americans" need to understand what happens when a country relies on military force too heavily to solve long running disputes, such as the deadly stalemate which has happenned between Isreal and Palestine.

[Career Prole]

29. Lovely points, all. Here's what we'll do since my life's too short for

this crap.
The editing window of opportunity has closed, so what I need you to do is everywhere I typed "Security Mom" just pretend it says "Security Concious Americans" instead, okay?

[undercover_brother]

30. Symantics is a sidenote. Allowing Reps to control the message is the prob

Symantics is a sidenote. Allowing Republicans to control the message is the problem. By everyone regurgitating Republican talking points we allow them to control the discussion/message. We and the media become willing accomplices in the right-winged hostile takeover of our Democracy.

[Career Prole]

33. One, I don't regurgitate. You sound a bit robotic though.

Two, you shouldn't be allowed to discuss semantics until you can spell semantics.
Seriously, save the tiresome pedagoguery for someone else because after this post I won't be paying attention to you anymore and quite frankly I don't think anyone else is paying attention to this discussion either. You'll be wasting all that fire you should be using on your neighbors and friends.
Ta! :hi:

[acmavm]

6. I don't understand the cost/risk thing. Because by the time the news hits

that the serum isn't really effective, everyone's already had their shots. Or most everyone.

What I'm curious about is whether or not the goverment foots some of the R&D expenses for flu vaccines like they do a lot of others.

Then the third thing I'm curious about is when did the accounting principal 'the cost of doing business' (or actually incurring expenses) become verboten? I mean corporations today think everything is supposed to be pure profit, either by jacking up the cost to the buyer, or outsourcing. Hell bells, they're the ones getting all the tax breaks, why not be expected to take some kind of a hit on something.

[Momzilla]

16. This is exactly why....

the homeland security legislation contained a provision limiting the liability of drug companies for vaccines and drugs used in response to a terrorist attack or national emergency. (Although of course it disturbingly went further than just that as I recall)

Your argument about the flu vaccine being "financially risky" seems to go to another angle of litigation limits (ie tort reform).

[Career Prole]

18. Not my argument, Momzilla...their argument.

Tort reform's exactly what they're hinting at, and it's a pretty poor excuse for taking chances with national health.
36,000 Americans die from the flu annually. Makes Iraq look like small potatoes, yet we aren't covered against that threat sufficiently because a drug giant might get sued. Poor billionaires...my heart bleeds for them.
:nopity:

Welcome to DU, Momzilla! :hi:

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. For people who are so concerned about

their health and safety, especially the health and safety of their kids, this should be a big issue.

Plus, doesn't if make Bush look like a hypocrite when he says wants to protect us from drugs coming in through Canada from third world countries, but now we won't have enough vaccine because one of our main sources is in a foreign country?

[Career Prole]

26. Bingo!

And both our major suppliers are in Europe. It is indeed another log on the Two-Face fire.

[noamnety]

21. A curious line from NPR

I heard this story on NPR last week/weekend (not sure of date), and was struck by a little line in their report - a recommendation that the FDA change their flu vaccine policy so instead of recommending it to the elderly, they would push it for everyone. The rationale given was that this would create enough demand that the companies would make enough profit to be able to produce enough for everyone.

I'm not really interested in getting shots I don't need to help the profits of drug companies. (Not sure if this makes me a bad american.)

Did anyone else catch that story?

[goodboy]

22. security moms are a construct of Karl Rove aren't they...

do they really exist, or are they just fundie Christians anyway?

[are_we_united_yet]

24. No they

are a Repub (read bumper sticker) creation. Probably by Rove since it has his patented pathetic ring to it.

[are_we_united_yet]

23. Ya know

That is an outstanding observation. Really.

But I doubt "the security moms" and anybody else stupid enough to vote for *, will realize the overwhelming sound logic and reason to what you have just stated here.

It is just such a pathetic state of affairs we have at the moment.

[DesEtoiles]

25. www.securitymomsforkerry.com - new web site

www.securitymomsforkerry.com

Visit often in the next few days - adding more all the time.

And please spread the word and pass on the link.

[Career Prole]

27. I like it!

Even has a link to DU!

"Comprehensive List of Media Contacts: The Democratic Underground maintains an exhaustive list of media contacts from Radio to Television to Newspapers and Magazines. An excellent starting point for letters to the editor, complaints and praise."
:D

[mumon]

31. It's worse than you think....

If not for the public health systems of countries like Thailand, Vietnam, and the PRC, we'd have the "big one" now.

Follow the links on my blog- 550,000 died in the last influenza pandemic, and this is a problem waiting to happen again!

Makes Sept. 11 look like a tea party.

[mumon]

32. Here's my earlier post on the subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1033411&mesg_id=1033411