What if they steal the election again

[FreakinDJ]

What are we going to do this time....

We all watched in disbelief as Chimpy was selected and installed as dick-tator in chief. What are we going to do to prevent it from happening again

[Rick Myers]

1. They are already planning...

Several reports today of GOP fund rasing efforts to build a 'post-election legal defense fund!!!'

:wtf:

[Steelangel]

11. What I gather from that statement.. they are planning to

cheat after all? Why build a 'post-election legal defense' fund at first place?

I hope Kerry and other democrats are aware of that and plan their own funds as well.. George Soros & Ted Turner, we need you!

[endnote]

38. Both Kerry and Chimpy are accumulating funds for that.

They were talking THOUSANDS of lawyers...

[Mr_Spock]

2. It can't be talked about on a public forum really.

It just seems to unlikely to have happen two election cycles in a row - I hope all is fair for the future of our country.

[intheflow]

27. Is hope logical, Spock?

Perhaps not, but I agree this isn't a discussion for the www.

:hippie:

[Fed Up]

3. How come the 1996 election was so squeaky clean? it seems

that the 2000 election was a metastasis that will ruin all future elections.

I'm really pissed that Ohio and Fla. are using electronic voting that has no paper trail. it Kerry really wins by 50,000 votes, all they have to do is press a button and make Bush win instead. What a crock.

OTOH, the Venezuela elections used electronic voting, and they worked. Maybe we'll get lucky.

[Philostopher]

7. Ohio isn't using much EV.

Diebold machines were ruled too unreliable by the state BOE. There's a small minority of precincts using another brand of electronic machines, but I don't think they're quite as bad as Diebold.

That's not to say the Ohio GOP hasn't tried several other things, but most of them have failed, too. I think they'll try voter intimidation, registration challenges and other things -- like roadblocks and inciting violence in minority districts. We're looking at another Florida from 2000, but it won't be electronic voting that screws the pooch here, this year.

[Fed Up]

17. duly noted. thanks

[Laelth]

24. Really? Little EV in Ohio?

That's some of the best news I've heard all day. I was just sure Diebold would give Ohio to Shrub. Very good news indeed!

:toast:

-Laelth

[Philostopher]

25. Not that they didn't try.

My greatest concern is that GOP operatives will push to cause violence in inner-city voting precincts, since they haven't been able to get electronic voting in most of the places they wanted it, the machines are manufactured by Sequoia (not Diebold -- the machines didn't pass the 'smell test' for the Ohio Board Of Elections), they can't throw away Internet registrations due to the paper they're printed on (there was a fluff about Blackwell insisting on cardstock when Internet registrations aren't processed the same way), and now the circuit court ruled against him on refusing to give out provisional ballots to people who happen to attempt to vote in the wrong precinct and opt not to go to the precinct in which they're registered because it would present an undue burden to poor voters. Overall, they've exhausted most of their options except violence and outright blocking and intimidation to disenfranchise poor and minority voters, who largely would be motivated to vote for Democratic candidates. With their 'clean' options off the plate, I imagine they'll opt for 'dirty' ones like inciting violence, lying to ignorant new voters and roadblocks, instead. I fear it could get ugly.

[AntiCoup2K4]

19. What was missing from the 1996 election?

B_S_

Fill in the blanks.... if you need to. Actually the answer reads about the same either way.

[Walt Starr]

4. I won't discuss how I will react

Suffice it to say, America will be dead if they successfully steal a second election.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. There will be massive demonstrations

and all manner of civil unrest if it appears they stole another one. Too many people are too pissed off. Contingency plans are already being made for a huge demonstration in D.C., maybe elsewhere. I plan to be among the demonstrators if that happens. Hard to say what the ultimate result would be, but one thing I'm sure of is that this time we aren't going to just bend over and take it for the sake of "unity." Fuck that.

[rndmprsn]

12. I'm in baltimore and will march on DC if this shit happens again...

i invite all of you to join me...hope it doesnt come to that tho.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Sign up here to demonstrate in D.C. or elsewhere, if necessary:

Pledge of Action to Stop A Stolen Election

"I remember the stolen presidential election of 2000 and I am willing to take action in 2004 if the election is stolen again. I support efforts to protect the right to vote leading up to and on Election Day, November 2nd. If that right is systematically violated, I pledge to join nationwide protests starting on November 3rd, either in my community, in the states where the fraud occurred, or in Washington DC."

http://www.Nov3.US/

[Must_B_Free]

6. They will try but won't be able to steal enough to win

[Laelth]

8. Well ...

If it's a landslide, Shrub will concede nicely, and nobody will be talking about corruption of the process. That's the best-case scenario (though my wife is convinced that if Shrub loses he'll sieze power and we'll have a military dictatorship).

On the other hand, if it's close (as was 2000), these squables are inevitable. Just get out the vote and make it a landslide. Then, this won't be an issue. :)

-Laelth

[sofa king]

9. Every American is pledged to defend the republic.

So, if the mechanism of the Republic is perverted twice in a row, there is a logical conclusion which will be reached by millions of people on an individual basis.

[Nordic]

31. exactamundo.

It's covered in the constitution.

[naufragus]

10. We dont roll over this time

I think Gore should have held out. Thi stime we take all the way to January if we have too.

Take to the streets in protest.

Start impeachment rolling

[Laelth]

18. Sad ...

One of the saddest scenes in F-9/11 is when Gore, as President of the Senate, has to ask black congresspersons if they have a Senator who has signed their petition to contest the 2000 election results (especially on the issue of disinfranchisement in FL). I felt like Gore had let us down ...

But anarchy after this election? Just begs Shrub to declare martial law ... headed for a dictatorship for sure that way. Think twice people ...

-Laelth

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. In fairness to Gore, he was just following procedure

You know he hated every minute of that shit and wanted to allow every member of the Black Caucus to keep on talking. He's not to blame for that part of it. However, the entire US Senate IS, because they could have done something at that point. Where the fuck were our so called leaders that day?

[Laelth]

21. True.

I know Gore did what he thought was best for the country. Still, a lot of us were hurting. And our Senators felt they were doing the right thing too.

But if we were gonna fight over a close election, that was the time to do it. Clinton was still Prez. We can't do it now, not realistically, not without giving Shrub way too much power.

That's my point. :) Thanks for the reply.

-Laelth

[kurt_cagle]

28. Martial law with WHAT army?

Scenario - Bush loses, but refuses to acknowledge defeat. Protests ensue, the lawyers go to work, and the faithful fundies get their marching orders to start setting up some "terrorist" actions clearly implicating the Dems. Bush says that the election was fraudulent, the actions of his opponents show it, and moves the threat level to Code Red.

And then what happens? If you're a Republican Governor, you immediately mobilize the few state militia troops that haven't been sent off to Iraq, enlist the police to essentially quarantine their own people. If you're a Democratic Governor, you refuse. At that point, marches become pointless - you have several regions of the country basically point blank refusing to recognize the authority of the Federal Government.

George Bush is screwed at that point. Soldiers talk, and even if Bush was able to airlift enough military troops BACK to the US to make a difference, how many of their senior commanders will in fact order them to fire on US civilians? Police forces can only be deputized by the Federal Government with permission from the state governors. What you will have in that case is basically civil war, regardless of whether there is a general strike or not on the part of the people on this list.

I don't think it will get that far. I suspect that there are probably discussions right now in Washington at all levels about this very topic, about what happens if Bush loses and refuse to go, and people are already taking sides. In a struggle between the elected elite and the bureaucracy, I'll side with the bureaucracy every time.

-- Kurt Cagle

[Laelth]

33. Hi Kurt.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

To be honest, it's comforting to believe that there are people who are thinking about this subject, people who might have some power to affect the outcome. And I'm a fan of the federal government (the bureaucracy--the people who make the government work), but there are so many people in this country who follow Bush out of blind faith that I fear your analysis is exactly right. If Bush refuses to go, we have civil war.

I can't condone that ... yet.

-Laelth

[drb]

13. Of COURSE they're planning to steal it!

Does a snake drag his ass?

[Danocrat]

14. Agreed

[OneBlueSky]

16. agreed x10 . . .

they're already doing it . . . in Nevada, in Oregon, in Minnesota . . . and you can bet your ass in Florida and Ohio as well . . . and very likely every other swing (or even potentially swing) state . . . they own the government, the media, the voting machines, and damn near everything else, so their chances of succeeding are probably pretty good, imo . . .

[Blaze Diem]

23. Sadly, I do agree with you. I hope & pray for it to be otherwise though.

We need a majority change in the House & Senate, that is our place of power. John Kerry, you are a true American Patriot for facing the bush regime as you are.

You know what the word "Democracy" means and how easily it can be subverted. You know how many millions throughout the world see you as the final hope for peace.

Kerry vs Bush...good vs evil..pretty much sums it up, and
we'll continue to fight like mad dogs to restore America to its rightful owners.

[nomatrix]

29. So why don't those people who were duped

check with the election officials to see if they are registered? All local papers can encourage it. Follow the paper trail. I would think any good prosecutor would love to know the racketeers had canvassed their neighborhood and it never reached the election officials.

[Mr_Spock]

22. Death and destruction.

Mahem and murder. Who knows - we'll cross that bridge if we get to it.

[demwing]

26. Ever see Red Dawn?

[Steelangel]

30. I saw it. Let's hope that will not happen.

[Forkboy]

35. What...are we all going to turn into crappy actors?

:)

[demwing]

37. Yeah, we're talking 100%, authentic Wisconsin cheese fest

bad acting, bad script, melodramatic music...

Then I think of that scene where they've turned the local drive in theater into a prison camp. As they line up the parents of the rebels before a firing squad, the parents begin to sing America The Beautiful. As they sing, they are all shot.

I know that if Americ turns towards a dark, fascist future, there will always be that spirit of freedom.

The only thing we can do under a fascist takeover in America is to arm ourselves and fight for democracy. I'm certain that at least a portion of the military would support a patriot insurgency.

Will Pitt wrote that he poured his life into this campaign. That's patriotic, but we all may find that, if things go poorly and spiral into a nightmarish domino effect of cascading worst case scenarios, that freedom has a higher price than we have yet been required to pay.

I hope we never go down that road.

[Skittles]

32. these neocon bastards are not going to let go

they are not through with us yet

[Piperay]

34. Agreed

they will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to hang on to the WhiteHouse.

[Zhade]

36. We either stop them from doing so...

...or the world will turn its back on us for not stopping the criminals.

It's that simple.