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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:08 AM
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. I will be voting this year in the general election
Whether a candidate supported the war or not will be secondary to the issue of how we are getting the troops back home.
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. it's not the only difference, but it is an iconic difference
it symbolizes the passionate, angry, yet smart, give-em-hell style that inspires Dean's core supporters.

it is also an important difference. the Iraq war is a nexus of all that is wrong with the Bush administration, and all that is wrong with the quisling wing of the dem party.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. No. There are a whole gamut of issues in which Dean is
directly anti-Bush, while the DLC five are half-assed and nuanced in their criticisms --

No Child Left Behind

Medicare Bill

9/11 Investigation

Tax Cuts

Out of Control Deficit Spending
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
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clarknyc Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Don't forget these greatest hits...
The Bush tax cuts, NCLB, and The Patriot Act. BTW, the IWR is not insignificant.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. Why don't you go to his site, read it, and find out? n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. Looking for that positive uniting message
All I keep hearing is war vote, war vote, war vote. If he can't unite the party now, with the money, media and endorsements, I don't know how he'll ever be able to do it.
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clarknyc Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. What would Dean need to do...
To convince you that he could unite the party?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. Stop berating everyone
I don't know how you unite the party when you are berating candidates that other members of the party support. If a person supports a cockroach, they must be stupid or a cockroach themselves. He can't keep implying everybody is wrong except him.
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. If not positive and uniting, I'd at least like clearly stated policies.
His speeches and issues site is mostly comprised of
hammering on what's wrong.
How's he gonna fix what's wrong???
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
47. No, he's just having trouble with the partisans
who will not be united, ever. And the media, well, they've shown how they feel about Democratic frontrunners.

Some people don't want to be united. You see a lot of that in this party.
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
59. and immagine how the "war vote war vote war vote" will play
for all the dems who voted for it and are up for re-election.

they have to either run against their own record or against the prez nominee....
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well, his vote against the IWR is what propelled him ahead
And so Dean will be playing that card on the table for as long as he can. Please do not interpret that as a bash; he gambled and won.

Now aren't we all grateful that Dean had the courage and foresight to vote against the IWR?

Oh wait... he was governing that parking lot in New England and didn't have to vote!

(That was a bash. I am prejudiced against New England. YMMV)
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. He certainly cant use corporatism
Edited on Tue Jan-13-04 02:30 AM by corporatewhore
praised NAFTA and snuggeled up to big business in vt
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kayleybeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. "It's Not Who Supported What Resolution" -Dean 1/11/04
Get with the program, Pete :-)

Seriously though... I am not a Dean supporter, but he does talk about other issues, namely healthcare, taxes, education and race. Those are the ones that come to mind anyway.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Deleted message
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. I've been watching Dean's debates, speeches, Q&As, website issues
Trying to compare his platform with my two favorites.

First Dean's vague.
Second, when I can deduce his policy, it's generally
not as good as Kucinich or Clark's.

I like Clark's college funding policy, tax policy, affirmative action
and voting rights policies, and many more.

I like Kucinich's health care policy, policies NAFTA/WTO, global warming, and many more.
And even with the Iraq war, Kucinich is the only one on record
with definitive proof that he was against it.

I can't find a policy or stance of Dean's that is better than his rivals, or even as good as.
I'm mystified.

Look at Dean's issues section on his site.
Most of the text is complaining about Bush.
I know Bush sucks...
I want to know *specifically* what the candidates will do to
de-suck the country.

I see crisp clear answers on Clark's and Kucinich's sites.
I see bitching and long vague essays on Dean's site.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Deleted message
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. What do you think Bush was planning on using
his AWOL record? Why do you think his enablers are pumping up the economy stories? Because Iraq is a loser and they want to make it go away but Dean will not let it. They have to be held accountable for their misdeeds. Perhaps you haven't been listening or could it be a little bias on your part that you have failed to hear Dean talk on other issues?
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. It could be bias, but it's not.
I've spent countless hours listening to him and reading
his words, trying to find some reason for enthusiasm, or at
least hope, if he gets the nomination.

I watched him in a Q&A on CSPAN today, and his "answers"
didn't articulate solutions, only problems.

In fact a woman walked up to him after the debate and asked him to
start focusing on specific solutions.
I guess she has the same frustration.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
50. I guess I 've heard that story somewhere before
B-)
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
34. Yes. You guys just don't get it. The US electorate needs to be hit over
the head with a blunt instrument.

We aren't running for student council president here. The most uplifting and crisp policy essay isn't going to win this battle.

Dean is taking it to Bush daily. You aren't going to stop the emperor with pretty little pie-in-the-sky policy platforms. The only way you are going to stop him is if you keep using the truth as a blunt instrument until enough people realize Bush is buck naked.

Positive messages are great. But perhaps the most positive message possible consists of rewinding the country back 3 years and giving Al Gore his rightful term in office. And if you don't understand that implicitly, you haven't been paying attention.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. Dean capitalizes on campaign attacks, raises $1 million in a week
Attacks on Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean haven't hurt the front-runner's record fund raising.

In fact, it's helped.

The former Vermont governor is using criticism from his Democratic rivals, Republicans and GOP-leaning interest groups to take in even more cash. He collected about $1 million last week, spokesman David Carle said Monday.

"They'll do anything to stop you," Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi told donors in a fund-raising e-mail sent last week after the Republican-leaning Club for Growth ran a television ad against Dean.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/01/12/politics0206EST0429.DTL

Whatever they've got, it works.
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. So that's his major policy difference? Fund raising? That's Bush's
Policy!

On what real issue(s) is Dean's policy better than his rivals?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Go read Dean's website and find out.
I'm not typing it all in to a message board browser. It's already there typed up ready for you to read there at the Dean website.

Google Howard Dean.
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. I didn't think you could name one.
And I already said I'd been reading his website, and
his vague policies and constant restating of problems,
not solutions, are vexing.

I've also been comparing his issue papers to Clark and Kucinich.
Here are some examples (they're exerpts; I trimmed out the
parts where he's just restating problems). Three big issues
to me: Higher Education, Health Care, Global Warming.

I tried to capture the meat with excerpts; I excluded the “how we’ll pay for this” info. Frankly, if we stopped flushing money down the crapper this stuff probably would be paid for. If I missed significant info from a website (the only source I’m using), please let me know.

I like Clark's education policy (grants, not the same old loans),
Kucinich's health care policy (universal, not the same old system with band aids),
Kucinich on global warming (kyoto accord).

I like that Clark says he'll be held accountable, whereas Dean
consistently ends speaches by saying he can't cure our problems,
only we can. Then, why do we need him?


Issues/Candidate Policies/Are they precise/Are they clear/Are they good?

Higher Education:
-----------------------
Kucinich/http://www.kucinich.us/issues/10key.php

<7> Guaranteed Quality Education, Pre-K through College
Since education is the only proven way to reduce poverty, it is unacceptable that a child’s education be dependent on where they are born or the financial status of their family. The federal government spends only 2.9% of its budget on education. That will change under a Kucinich administration, because quality education is a core American right and value.

Education must emphasize creative and critical thinking, not just test-taking. Schools need money to decrease class size, increase teachers’ salaries, renovate decaying facilities, and include hands-on job training for those not going to college. Pre-K and after-school programs will get increased funding, and the soaring costs of college will be reversed.

Dean/http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_education_highered

Higher education is the pathway to a better life for millions of young people

This country cannot afford for college to be an ‘elites only’ program….

The College Commitment

Governor Dean’s higher education plan will guarantee every young person access to an affordable four-year college education. The “College Commitment” guarantees that every student who commits in eighth grade to working hard in high school and to pursuing a higher education will have the resources to earn a degree.

Through the College Commitment, eighth graders will be asked to commit to prepare for college and to graduate from high school. The commitment to them in return is that:

They will have access to $10,000 per year for postsecondary education — traditional college or high-skills career training.
They will never have to pay more than 10% of their income after college on student loan payments.
If they go into public service, they will never pay more than 7% of their income — if they enter fields such as nursing, teaching, law enforcement, or firefighting in high need areas.
If they work and make loan payments for 10 years, their loans will be paid in full.

Clark/http://clark04.com/downloads/pdf/Clark04_HigherEducation.pdf

Universal College Grant Plan
Going to college is an essential part of the American dream. Higher education is one of the best investments a
person can make: economic studies show that an additional year of schooling beyond high school has a return
of between 5 and 15 percent annually – more than the typical inflation-adjusted return on stocks and bonds.

Wes Clark’s three-part plan:
1. Make the first two years of college free for most students – providing a Universal College Grant of
$6,000 per year.
The Universal College Grant would be phased in to provide
$6,000 per year for the first two years of full-time college for any dependent student whose familyʼs
income is up to $100,000. Like the existing Pell Grant, the Universal College Grant could be applied to
tuition, fees, room, board, and school supplies, including computers, at any qualifying public or private
institution.
Making the first two years of college free for most students. The average tuition and fees for a fouryear
public university, $4,694 in 2003-04, would be covered by the Universal College Grant, meaning
that the first two years of college would be free for most students.
2. Restrain spiraling tuition increases
3. Enhance savings for college

Paying more than half of the cost of Universal College Grants by consolidating the Pell Grant,
the Hope Scholarship, and increasing competition for student loans. The cost of the new Universal
College Grant would be partially paid for by reserving Pell Grants only for those in their last two years
of college (currently $12 billion for all years of college) and eliminating the Hope Scholarship ($3.5
billion). In the process, the Universal College Grant plan would reform the tax code to make it simpler.
In addition, Wes Clark would eliminate the billions of dollars a year in subsidies that the government
currently pays to banks that offer student loans and instead shift to direct, competitive lending.

America's working families need more help saving for college. Wes Clark's plan would increase the incentives
for working families to save for college and other higher education:
Extend the Saver's Credit to Education IRAs – and make it refundable. Currently, couples making up to
$30,000 annually get up to a 100 percent match on their contributions to IRAs. Wes Clark would extend this
Saver's Credit to Education IRAs – and make it refundable. This would provide additional returns for working
families that save for college and beyond, and thus an additional reason to save. This is part of Wes Clark's
overall plan to reform the tax code and increases the incentives for saving.

Wes Clark will be held accountable for achieving the goal of an additional 1 million students enrolled in higher
education by 2008.

Health Care:
-----------------------
Kucinich/http://www.kucinich.us/issues/universalhealth.php

Universal Health Care with a Single Payer Plan
The Kucinich plan is enhanced 'Medicare for All' -- a universal, single-payer system of national health insurance, carefully phased in over 10 years. It addresses everyone's needs, including the 40 million Americans without coverage and those paying exorbitant rates for health insurance. This approach to healthcare emphasizes patient choice, and puts doctors and patients in control of the system, not insurance companies. Coverage will be more complete than private insurance plans, encourage prevention and include prescription drugs.

Over time, the Kucinich plan will remove private insurance companies from the system -- along with their waste, paperwork, profits, excessive executive salaries, advertising, sales commissions, etc -- and redirect resources to actual treatment. Insurance companies do not heal or treat anyone, physicians and health practitioners do ...and thousands of physicians support a single-payer system because it reduces bureaucracy and shelters the doctor-patient relationship from HMO and insurance company encroachment.

This type of system -- privately-delivered health care, publicly financed -- has worked well in other countries, none of whom spend as much per capita on healthcare as the United States. "We're already paying for national healthcare; we're just not getting it," says Kucinich. The cost-effectiveness of a single-payer system has been affirmed in many studies, including those conducted by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting Office. The GAO has written:
"If the US were to shift to a system of universal coverage and a single payer, as in Canada, the savings in administrative costs (10% to private insurers) would be more than enough to offset the expense of universal coverage."

While enhanced Medicare for All makes economic sense, it has not made political sense to some, due to the power of the private insurance lobby. The streamlined Kucinich plan is very different than the 1993 Clinton HMO-based plan, a complex proposal that left big insurance firms in a central role. After Clinton's 'Managed Competition' plan failed without coming up for a vote, talk-radio host Jim Hightower asked President Clinton why he hadn't put forward a "simple, straightforward" single-payer plan "instead of all this bureaucracy." Clinton replied, "I thought it would be easier to pass" a bill that left the insurance industry in place. "I guess I was wrong about that."

Dean/http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_health

My plan will cost $88.3 billion -- less than half of the president's tax cut -- with money left over to pay down the deficits run up by this administration.

My plan consists of four major components.

First, and most important, in order to extend health coverage to every uninsured child and young adult up to age 25, we'll redefine and expand two essential federal and state programs -- Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. Right now, they only offer coverage to children from lower-income families. Under my plan, we cover all kids and young adults up to age 25 -- middle income as well as lower income. This aspect of my plan will give 11.5 million more kids and young adults access to the healthcare they need.

Second, we'll give a leg up to working families struggling to afford health insurance. Adults earning up to 185% of the poverty level -- $16,613 -- will be eligible for coverage through the already existing Children Health Insurance Program. By doing this, an additional 11.8 million people will have access to the care they need.

Many working families have incomes that put them beyond the help offered by government programs. But this doesn't mean they have viable options for healthcare. We'll establish an affordable health insurance plan people can buy into, providing coverage nearly identical to what members of Congress and federal employees receive.

To cushion the costs, we'll also offer a significant tax credit to those with high premium costs. By offering this help, another 5.5 million adults will have access to care.

Third, we need to recognize that one key to a healthy America is making healthcare affordable to small businesses.We shouldn't turn our back on the employer-based system we have now, but neither should we simply throw money at it. We need to modernize the system so employers will have an option beyond passing rising costs on to workers or bailing out of the system entirely. Fortunately, we have a model of efficient, affordable and user-friendly healthcare coverage: the federal employee health system.

With the plan I've put forth to the American people, we'll organize a system nearly identical to the one federal workers and members of Congress enjoy. And we'll enable all employers with less than 50 workers to join it at rates lower than are currently available to these companies -- provided they insure their work force. I'll also offer employers a deal: The federal government will pick up 70% of COBRA premiums for employees transitioning out of their jobs, but we'll expect employers to pay the cost of extending coverage for an additional two months. These two months are often the difference between workers finding the health coverage they need, or joining the ranks of the uninsured.

Finally, to ensure that the maximum number of American men, women and children have access to healthcare, we must address corporate responsibility. There are many corporations that could provide healthcare to their employees but choose not to. The final element of this plan is a clear, strong message to corporate America that providing health coverage is fundamental to being a good corporate citizen. I look at business tax deductions as part of a compact between American taxpayers and corporate America. We give businesses certain benefits, and expect them to live up to certain responsibilities.

I believe this plan is sensible and that it can pass Congress -- but most importantly, I believe that it is the right thing to do. When my wife, Judith Steinberg, and I graduated from medical school, we took an oath in which we pledged to practice our profession with conscience and dignity and to always make the health of our patients our first consideration. With this plan, and in my campaign for the presidency, I will make the health of all Americans my first priority. Our country has waited too long, and we must do better.

Clark/ http://clark04.com/issues/healthcare.pdf

HIGHLIGHTS OF WES CLARK’S PLAN FOR HEALTH CARE
-Wes Clark’s plan is the only plan that improves care while expanding coverage and making
it more affordable for American families.
-Provides health insurance for 31.8 million Americans who are currently uninsured, including
all 13.1 million children and college-age Americans who currently lack health insurance.
-Provides tax credits to reduce premiums for millions of Americans who currently have
health insurance but are struggling to pay their premiums. In addition, Wes Clark’s groundbreaking
emphasis on improving quality and constraining cost growth would provide better
medical outcomes at a lower cost for all Americans.

Global Warming:
--------------------

Kucinich/http://www.kucinich.us/issues/environment.php

<10> Environmental Renewal and Clean Energy
Clean air and water, as well as an intact ozone layer, are not luxuries, but necessities for our children's future.

A Kucinich administration will toughen environmental enforcement, support the Kyoto Treaty on global climate change, reduce oil dependence, and spur investment in alternative energy sources, including hydrogen, solar, wind, and ocean. Clean energy technologies will produce new jobs. Tax and other incentives will favor sustainable businesses that conserve energy, retrofit pollution prevention technologies, and redesign toxins out of their manufacturing processes. The right to know (for example, when food is genetically engineered) will supercede corporate secrecy. Globally, the U.S. will become a leader in sustainable energy production and a partner with developing nations in providing inexpensive, local, renewable energy technologies.

Dean/http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_policy_environment_globalwarming

Global warming is a monumental hazard to our health, our environment, and our economy. Global warming is caused by a thickening layer of carbon pollution around the earth that traps heat from the sun. Like other pollution problems that we have licked in the past, global warming is a problem that we can solve.

America has a special responsibility and capacity to take the lead in addressing global warming. We are the world’s biggest contributor to the problem — with just five percent of the world’s population, we emit one-fourth of the world’s global warming pollution. At the same time, we have the greatest capacity to lead the world to solutions - we have the technology and know-how to lead the world in energy efficiency and clean energy, while creating good-paying jobs here at home and strengthening America’s economy.

To show leadership at home, it is urgent that the United States take steps to reduce the emissions that cause global warming. The place to start is with our power plants and our cars. Power plants emit 40 percent of all US carbon dioxide -- 10 percent of all carbon dioxide in the world. They also release other dangerous air pollutants that cause more than 30,000 early deaths each year, and tens of thousands of asthma attacks and hospitalizations. We can and must strengthen the Clean Air Act to curb the emissions of all of these pollutants from power plants, including the carbon dioxide that causes global warming….

Cars and SUVs are responsible for another 20 percent of US carbon dioxide emissions. The State of California has taken the lead, demanding that new vehicles emit less carbon pollution. I am proud that Vermont has followed California’s lead, and I think we need to move in that direction at the federal level…

… Virtually all of the other industrial nations have already committed themselves to start acting to reduce their own carbon pollution. Once we show some leadership at home on our own emissions, however, we will be able to return to the bargaining table and make progress together on a fair and effective global partnership to combat global warming.

To be sure, we cannot address global warming unless all polluting countries do their fair share. But we must recognize that the average American is responsible for 10 times as much global warming pollution as the average Chinese and 20 times as much as the average Indian. We have the know-how and the resources to lead the way forward to new clean technologies that produce energy without pollution. We will show the way, but they must follow. And we will prosper, selling the technologies of the future.

… California showed the way in 2001, fighting back against the energy-industry-created electricity crisis with massive new investments in energy efficiency that have already saved California consumers billions of dollars. To encourage renewable energy, I support requiring that 20 percent of our nation’s electricity be generated from renewable resources by 2020.

There is another reason why we must embrace energy efficiency and renewable energy sources. Our dependence on Middle East oil may indirectly put money in the hands of those who teach young children to hate Americans. Energy policy is not only about protecting our environment, it is about defending our country against terrorism.


Clark/ http://clark04.com/issues/turnaround/goal2/


Specifically, his four-part plan will:

Set tough air pollution standards for electric power plans. Wes Clark will set tough new limits on the four major pollutants from power plants, establish new programs to reduce airborne toxins and carcinogens, and design policies to protect the most vulnerable Americans, including children and the elderly.

Crack down on corporate polluters. Wes Clark will rigorously enforce environmental laws that protect the public health, reduce pollution, and ensure that companies that play by the rules are not unfairly disadvantaged.

Use American technology and market-based approaches to meet air pollution challenges with innovative, job-creating solutions. Wes Clark will promote an aggressive effort to develop innovative pollution control technologies. In addition, he will use market-based approaches that foster environmental protection while promoting economic growth.

Restore trust in our environmental programs. The Bush administration has violated the public's trust in many ways, including failing to provide accurate information on air pollution risks to New York City residents and emergency personnel after the 9/11 tragedy. Wes Clark will tell the truth to the American people and the world.


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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
17. 9/11 changed everthing--GW Bush. Did Dean forget WHY Dems backed Bush
after 9/11? I'd hate to think that the motivation for Dean's candidacy was just another exploitation of the that horrible disaster.
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digno dave Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
18. I was wondering the same thing driving home from work today
What is a policy of Dean's that i can point to and appreciate?
No war...ok...rescind tax cuts...ok. Now what?

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Constitution Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. That's all Dean has going for him
And he would have supported it if he had been in Congress. If he had been in Congress, he'd be claiming Kucinich's opposition to the war was out of line.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
23. He has a stand/oppinion/plan on EVERYTHING! See his web-page
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thebigthink Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
24. The truth is...
...he never even had that.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
49. Definitely heard THAT before
B-)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. Health care, balancing budgets, where do I start?
Edited on Tue Jan-13-04 02:55 AM by wtmusic
He's a doctor, he knows the system. Wes doesn't have a clue.

There you go. Major issue.

You asked...

BONUS POINT: Balancing budgets. How many has Wes balanced?

You asked...

DOUBLE BONUS POINT: Politics. There was constant friction between Wes and other NATO commanders. He got fired. Dean never lost an election--once.

You asked...
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. He's a doctor. That's not a policy. In the Q&A CSPAN broadcast today
A man told Dr. Dean he had diabetes, and had to go to Canada
to buy his drugs to afford them, and had to keep going back
to the Dr every three months, and running back and forth
between the US and Canada. He was emotional about it;
he was upset, frustrated...

Dean responded by stating that a diabetes patient should see
their Dr often, which was proper and a very good response to
that part of the issue. His medical background was
put to good use right there, so I got hopeful that he's say
something meaningful. Then he spent the rest of the
time defending the pharmacy's right to make a profit.

He didn't address specifically what he'd do to make drugs affordable
in the US, for that man and for us. He didn't even show the
compassion, the bedside manner, that I'd hope for from a doctor.
He just went on about how US drug stores need the money,
then took another question.

And health care is his strong suit?
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. DEAN & Insurance Companies
Perfect Together!:think:
You can Look It Up!
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Transcript?
Edited on Tue Jan-13-04 06:12 AM by stickdog
I've always heard Dean say that when he's in office, he'll make drug purchases from Canada legal.

http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/22492824.html

Dean also proposed closing loopholes to make generic drugs more readily available; using "preferred drug lists" to steer physicians to less-expensive medicines; banning direct advertising of prescription drugs to consumers; and allowing states latitude in experimenting with ways to control drug costs.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/7663389.htm

Howard Dean: "As president, a high and early legislative priority of my new administration would be to improve the prescription drug benefit to create one that is affordable, federally administered and for all of America's seniors; uses the government's buying power on behalf of 41 million seniors to negotiate and drive down drug prices; contains meaningful cost containment including reimportation of safe, effective medicines and the use of Preferred Drug Lists to ensure affordable premiums and co-payments; assures stability of coverage; and promotes price competition and real pharmaceutical innovation by supporting drug therapeutic equivalency and cost-effectiveness studies, not by setting drug prices through the federal government."


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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thank you stickdog, that helps a lot
I wish he'd put those details on his issues website.
They're significant.
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
29. Dean didn't TALK health care, he DID it
I remember when that use to count for something.
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
31. Does he have any other major policy differences or improvements?
Original question kick.
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
32. But, Sir? This Sure SMELLS LIKE 1972 All over A-gain!?
When you hear hoof beats:wtf:
Think "HORSES"
NOT "ZEBRAS":think:

In other words...."Landslide".

Oh they'll paint his as a Doctor all right..."Dr. Strangelove".
Good old, Angry,Everyman,From Vermont.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. I think I heard that before
B-)
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
37. To supporters of other candidates
Deanforamerica.com, a web site, you know that internet thing, seems to have quite a bit of information on what this guy thinks.

Oddly a good bit of it seems to discuss things other than IWR.

The IWR thing seems to dominate the dialog for a couple of reasons.

1. It was a really bad vote based on lies that leaves certain candidates open to actual criticism.

2. If you haven't noticed, people just keep dying over there, which simply brings the issue back into the news.

If the troops were already back home I suspect that we wouldn't even be discussing this. The problem is that they will keep dying and each time they do we will be forced to reconsider how it is we ended up there. This is as it should be.

Had our leaders considered this more carefully in advance, perhaps another course would have been chosen.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND
All Washington candidates voted for it. Only Dean, Clark, Sharpton, and CMB are against it and did not vote for it. This is a major issues as it threatens to destroy our public schools. Dean and Clark wish to obliterate it.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
40. The IWR was merely a symptom
The issue is not merely the vote on the IWR. It is the fact that the Democrats in Congress have repeatedly not stood up to the Bush Administration, alowing him not only to frame the debate, but to turn things around to make it appear that Bush has been leading on issues that he initially opposed.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
42. This is hardly ancient history.
Edited on Tue Jan-13-04 11:29 AM by Padraig18
Why be so dismissive of the single-most important issue among democratic primary voters, unless it benefits a favored candidate that we all develop amnesia?:think:
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
43. Nope, it's not all he has. Thanks for asking.
Edited on Tue Jan-13-04 11:32 AM by Hep
n/t
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
44. That and the media - although both are slipping already
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
45. Not all..but certainly enough.
That alone is enough to dismiss them as possible candidates for president for most liberal Democrats.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
48. Pete, you obviously need to go to a Meetup
and see for yourself what this is about. You are letting the media shape your perception of the candidate, and even reading the New York Times will not provide the insight you need.

Or you could meet ME for drinks on the Westside and I could shed some light on this for you personally.

The Dean candidacy is at its core a progressive change oriented anti establishment anti business as usual movement.

It incorporates many parts of the spectrum politically and everyone realizes that the ultimate goal is TO CHANGE THE WHOLE SYSTEM.

You KNOW which system I refer to. The shamefull behavior of the DC machine , the establishment candidates, the whole things reeks. You know it, they know it , we all know it. That we were able to channel our outrage, first into the anti war movement , where millions came together in advance of a war to voice our concern, and were ignored by mainstream players, to finding Howard Dean as our voice, this movement is at its core a divergenece from business as usual. We realized the power of the internet early on, and just like stringing together people's computers creates a megaputer to solve great equations, so stringing together enough progressives OUTSIDE OF THEIR LITTLE NETWORK creates a thing larger and more powerful than anyone dreamed; we have discovered FIRE!. This is what the entrenched fear, be they dems or not.

To parse this candidacy into just a typical media driven thing is to miss what's happening when you turn off the TV: we're mad, we're organized, and we have more money than anyone; we aren't going to stop until the corporate lobbyist is once again only a periferal player in governance, not the author of legislation.

So, Pete, I know you're disoriented by your move here, but there's too much going on in this campaign to reduce it to an "issue" when it's really about EVERYTHING.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I'd say you're 50% right
any more than any of the other candidates are "leaders " and "founders " fo the movement, what Gov. Dean did was talk the talk when it mattered most.

Your perception that he is the benficiary of this largesse is accurate. He's the guy we picked who can WIN. THAT was key inthe whole thought process. Without a victory here, we all know what travails await us as progressives; perhaps the end of the democratic experiment and descent into total fascism or totalitarianism.

For this reason, Dean is the man who can represent for us. Yes, not perfect, but articulate , forthright and genuine. But most important,
someone the established system fears because of what he represents: You and Me, united and with the money to back it up.

Or , we could pick another candidate, say ex military, who could sit and not run any ads from April till September. Because that's the structure of the system.

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windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
52. Dean supporters I don't get it


What I don't get is why progressive anti war people support Dean over DK. If you hate the war and want to end it quickly...DK wants US out UN in right away. Dean seems to say we will stay for "several years" and thus...lots more people will die.

In terms of policies and voting record...DK is far more liberal and progressive than Dean. If you look at the following political compass which is based on voting record and positions...you can see Dean in the middle of the main group of centrists...DK is far more liberal and progressive.

Why??



"We've scrutinised the statements and, more tellingly, the voting records of the hopefuls of the two major parties, in response to requests from many of our American visitors.
Within the United States , of course, real (and imagined) differences between the candidates are more greatly magnified. However, compared to other western democracies, especially those with a finely-tuned system of proportional representation, most mainstream political activity in the US is concentrated over a more narrow ideological range. We note too that conservative Democrats tend to have more in common with Republicans than with the liberals within their own ranks."
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Because Dean stands a chance of winning the GE, and DK doesn't.
Edited on Tue Jan-13-04 12:24 PM by Padraig18
Pretty basic, actually.
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Toot Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. I'm not completely anti-war, but I thought going to war in Iraq made no...
sense. Then Democrats in Congress pretty much gave Bush a free pass with very shady "proof" for the reason to go.

I know DK also opposed the war, but we're there now and I can't agree with his view that we bring our troops home completely right now, even though I wish we could, because the way we've torn up Iraq's "structure" I see no way we can abandon this mess now.

And every time I think of this whole situation I get mad.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
57. Which at least gives him more than Kerry.
Kerry campaign has been the pits, Pete. he looks better on paper.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
58. The IWR is one example of many...


in the dems propping up Bush and supporting his agenda over the last3 years.
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