David Kay confirms ABC video contents, definitely US responsibility

[keopeli]

On Arron Brown, he concludes definitively from ABC video:

-at least one bunker was intact on April 17 - one of very few, and he identified the wire they cut as an IAEA seal.
-after opening it, the military has an implicit obligation to guard it. "You break it, you own it" he said!
-the protection of these facilities SHOULD have and COULD have been anticipated. Both he and Aaron had a hard time swallowing that pill. They both then said, "I'm trying not to be political here." "Me, too!"
-this would NOT be classified as a "WMD" in and of itself. I think Kay's words were "No way!"
-the contents of the containers could be nothing besides HMX or RMX. Kay has never seen anything else that looks like this.

[keopeli]

1. They both were saying "I'm trying not to be political!"

Sorry for my earlier post being nuts, I was too excited, and I wanted people who might want to watch it to turn their TVs on.

mea culpa

Keo

[rentogen]

2. Game, set, match

That's Aaron Brown's conclusion. There's no doubt the explosive were there, and that US forces should have secured them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. Instead, they left them wide open and told 300,000 Iraqi military

"We don't have time for you, go find something to keep yourselves busy."

Fuse, meet flame.

[debatepro]

7. Commanders gave orders to move on

its not the troops fault. Say the command should of had them secure the site.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. That goes without saying. The troops don't make their own

decisions -- they follow orders. If they left the place unsecured it was because they were not ordered to do so.

By the same token, the soldiers at Abu-Graib are taking the heat for what was military intelligence policy, approved at the Pentagon.

No one of any rank is going to be held to account in either case.

[Bozita]

4. Bushco is not in charge of the discussion now

This story's got staying power.

That was a great interview by Aaron Brown.

[Florida_Geek]

5. Only the HMX/RMX bunkers has seals

and I think HMX he said coming in power form and the solder with a handful of power was HMX....

[BUSHOUT]

6. He said "game, set, match" HMX was there. IAEA ONLY sealed HMX...n/t

[davepc]

8. CNN transcript up

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/28/asb.01.html


BROWN: OK, back to the explosives the who and when and the how of it all but on the question of when, as we saw at the top of the program, there is new information to factor in, pretty conclusive to our eye.

So, we'll sort through this now, take the politics out of it and try and deal with facts with former head U.N. weapons inspector -- U.S. weapons inspector David Kay. David, it's nice to see you.

DAVID KAY, FMR. U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good to be with you, Aaron.

BROWN: I don't know how better to do this than to show you some pictures, have you explain to me what they are or are not, OK? First, I'll just call it the seal and tell me if this is an IAEA seal on that bunker at that munitions dump.

KAY: Aaron, as about as certain as I can be looking at a picture, not physically holding it, which obviously I would have preferred to have been there, that's an IAEA seal. I've never seen anything else in Iraq in about 15 years of being in Iraq and around Iraq that was other than an IAEA seal of that shape.

BROWN: And was there anything else at the facility that would have been under IAEA seal?

KAY: Absolutely nothing. It was he HMX, RDX, the two high explosives.

BROWN: OK. Now, I want to take a look at the barrels here for a second and you can tell me what they tell you. They obviously to us just show us a bunch of barrels. You'll see it somewhat differently.

KAY: Well, it's interesting. There were three foreign suppliers to Iraq of this explosive in the 1980s. One of them used barrels like this and inside the barrel is a bag. HMX is in powdered form because you actually use it to shape a spherical lens that is used to create the triggering device for nuclear weapons.

And, particularly on the videotape, which is actually better than the still photos, as the soldier dips into it that's either HMX or RDX. I don't know of anything else in al Qa Qaa that was in that form.

BROWN: Let me ask you then, David, the question I asked Jamie. In regard to the dispute about whether that stuff was there when the Americans arrived, is it game, set, match? Is that part of the argument now over?

KAY: Well, at least with regard to this one bunker and the film shows one seal, one bunker, one group of soldiers going through and there were others there that were sealed, with this one, I think it is game, set and match.

There was HMX, RDX in there. The seal was broken and quite frankly to me the most frightening thing is not only is the seal broken and the lock broken but the soldiers left after opening it up. I mean to rephrase the so-called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) rule if you open an arms bunker, you own it. You have to provide security.

BROWN: That raises a number of questions. Let me throw out one. It suggests that maybe they just didn't know what they had.

KAY: I think quite likely they didn't know they had HMX, which speaks to the lack of intelligence given troops moving through that area but they certainly knew they had explosives.

And to put this in context, I think it's important this loss of 360 tons but Iraq is awash with tens of thousands of tons of explosives right now in the hands of insurgents because we did not provide the security when we took over the country.

BROWN: Could you -- I'm trying to stay out of the realm of politics.

KAY: So am I. BROWN: I'm not sure you can necessarily. I know. It's a little tricky here but is there any reason not to have anticipated the fact that there would be bunkers like this, explosives like this and a need to secure them?

KAY: Absolutely not. For example, al Qa Qaa was a site of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) super gun project. It was a team of mine that discovered the HMX originally in 1991. That was one of the most well documented explosive sites in all of Iraq. The other 80 or so major ammunition storage points were also well documented.

Iraq had, and it's a frightening number, two-thirds of the total conventional explosives that the U.S. has in its entire inventory. The country was an armed camp.

BROWN: David, as quickly as you can because this just came up in the last hour, as dangerous as this stuff is, this would not be described as a WMD, correct?

KAY: Oh, absolutely not.

BROWN: Thank you.

KAY: And, in fact, the loss of it is not a proliferation issue.

BROWN: OK. It's just dangerous and it's out there and by your thinking it should have been secured.

KAY: Well, look, it was used to bring the Pan Am flight down. It's a very dangerous explosive, particularly in the hands of terrorists.

BROWN: David, thank you for walking me through this. I appreciate it, David Kay the former head U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq.

Ahead on the program tonight, if Florida was the epicenter of the 2000 election, another state quickly shaping up to be the troublemaker this time around. Why Ohio you may ask?

And diagnosing what's wrong with Yasser Arafat, an update on his condition, we break first.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

[LynnTheDem]

21. Iraq is awash with tens of thousands of tons of explosives right now in

the hands of insurgents because we did not provide the security when we took over the country.

Exactly what all the top experts around the entire world said BEFORE invasion, DURING invasion, and AFTER invasion.

And bush IGNORED them all.

And I TOLD YA'LL the HMX/RDX was STILL THERE at Al QaQaa AFTER bush invaded.

Had to do the "I told ya so" or implode; forgive me. :D

[davepc]

23. reminds me of something i heard once....

KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to say you're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the peace. Military's job is to win the war. Bush's job is to win the peace. Bush did not do what was necessary. Didn't bring in enough nations, didn't deliver the help, didn't close off the borders, didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids are being killed with ammos right out of that dump.

-- Second Bush-Kerry debate, St. Louis, MO

[cubsfan forever]

35. Welcome to DU, davepc!

I thought the very same thing. Imagine JFK is using it at his rallies as we speak.

Professor 2

[UL_Approved]

24. No WMD?

Finding a complete and assembled nuke or biochem device would be far too obvious to consider hiding out, both for distinct appearance and size. If HMX is the HE detonator used in nuclear devices, they have secured the detonator of an atomic bomb to the insurgents. Even though this does not constitute a WMD by definition, it does constitute COMPONENTS of a WMD, and with the articles about unsecured nuclear material floating around the country, they already have the recipe for a dirty bomb, which IS a WMD. I just hope we get Kerry elected and that his administration tracks down all this stuff before all hell breaks loose.

[LynnTheDem]

25. They are NOT WMD. PERIOD.

They are not even PROHIBITED ITEMS.

NOWHERE on the UN Resolutions list do they mention explosives RDX or HMX.

Iraq was ALLOWED to have them.

The only reason the UN monitored the use of the HMX is because it can be used to ignite nukes...AS CAN ANY EXPLOSIVE.

And actually no, dirty bombs are NOT "WMD".

[UL_Approved]

26. Hmmmmm

What is the official definition list of Weapons of Mass Destruction?

[LynnTheDem]

27. The official term is ABC or NBC, NOT "WMD"

WMD is a UN term.

ABC (atomic/bio/chem) is the official term.

NBC (nuke/bio/chem) is the US Military term.

What constitutes "WMD" is a WEAPON that causes MASS DESTRUCTION.

A swimming pool full of chemical or bio agents IS NOT a WMD, as it's NOT a weapon and CAN'T be DELIVERED to cause MASS DESTRUCTION. Unless you have a way of dropping several thousand or more people into the pool.

To be a "WMD" you have to be able to DELIVER the WEAPONIZED agents.

At the present time, only nukes are actual "WMD".

Chemical agents evaporate rapidly when exposed to sunlight; wind will disperse & evaporate them as well. Bio agents are even more difficult to actually weaponize.

Chemical weapons, such as mustard gas, are FIELD weapons called weapons of "area denial"; they DENY areas to oncoming troops.

I guarantee you dirty bombs ARE NOT "WMD" by ANY definition.

[LynnTheDem]

29. Some links

Mislabeling WMD

Though dirty bombs or plague would wreak havoc, they are not weapons of mass destruction.

http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/fellows/levi20030526.htm

Dirty bombs threaten disruption, panic but not mass destruction As to the dirty bomb, panic is the main fear

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/07/18/ING427JIH21.DTL

For some background history on the definitions of NBC/ABC versus "WMD";

The term has recently come in wide use in connection with the 2002 Iraq disarmament crisis and the alleged existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that became a pretext for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Weapons_of_mass_destruction

U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission

A dirty bomb is in no way similar to a nuclear weapon. The presumed purpose of its use would be therefore not as a Weapon of Mass Destruction but rather as a Weapon of Mass Disruption.

In most instances, the conventional explosive itself would have more immediate lethality than the radioactive material. At the levels created by most probable sources, not enough radiation would be present in a dirty bomb to kill people or cause severe illness.

However, certain other radioactive materials, dispersed in the air, could contaminate up to several city blocks, creating fear and possibly panic and requiring potentially costly cleanup.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/dirty-bombs.html

[CityHall]

9. As the Onion said

In our hurry to find their weapons of mass destruction, we forgot about their weapons of one little bit of destruction at a time.

[Mugsy]

10. See video on BI30.

I just posted tonights' story from ABC News regarding the KSTP video footage of the missing explosives on my website (opening popup):

*****
***** The "Bush in 30 Seconds" Archive: www.bi30archive.org
***** The largest collection of MoveOn.org contest ads on the web.
***** Home of THE BUSH SPLIT-SCREEN 9/11 VIDEO!
*****

[troublemaker]

11. Debunking pentagon photo >

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa-imagery4.htm

[ciaobox]

12. OH SNAP MOSH BABY!

David Kay just stuck a white hot dagger in Bush's scrotum!

[July]

38. What happened with him, anyway?

Didn't we think not so long ago that he was a Bush toady?

[keopeli]

13. CNN Transctipt and highlights

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/28/asb.01.h...

On the seal

that's an IAEA seal. I've never seen anything else in Iraq in about 15 years of being in Iraq and around Iraq that was other than an IAEA seal of that shape.

BROWN: And was there anything else at the facility that would have been under IAEA seal?

KAY: Absolutely nothing. It was he HMX, RDX, the two high explosives.

Did it disappear before we got there?

AARON: In regard to the dispute about whether that stuff was there when the Americans arrived, is it game, set, match? Is that part of the argument now over?

KAY: Well, at least with regard to this one bunker and the film shows one seal, one bunker, one group of soldiers going through and there were others there that were sealed, with this one, I think it is game, set and match. There was HMX, RDX in there. The seal was broken and quite frankly to me the most frightening thing is not only is the seal broken and the lock broken but the soldiers left after opening it up. I mean to rephrase the so-called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) rule if you open an arms bunker, you own it. You have to provide security.

And that opens pandora's box

BROWN: That raises a number of questions. Let me throw out one. It suggests that maybe they just didn't know what they had.

KAY: I think quite likely they didn't know they had HMX, which speaks to the lack of intelligence given troops moving through that area but they certainly knew they had explosives.

And to put this in context, I think it's important this loss of 360 tons but Iraq is awash with tens of thousands of tons of explosives right now in the hands of insurgents because we did not provide the security when we took over the country.

BROWN: Could you -- I'm trying to stay out of the realm of politics.

KAY: So am I.

[crossroads]

31. Divine Intervention!

Guess God didn't like Bush telling Pat He lied to him! (WTF... "no casualties"?)
:shrug:

[jacksonian]

14. unbelievable

Chimpy's bloodlust for brains.

[haydukelives]

15. What I dont understand

If the military had secured this sight, Then Bush could have said "There they are, triggers for nuclear weapons." They are such good liars, and with the press in there pocket, maybe could have gotten away with it. How stupid can they be?

[CAcyclist]

18. You are so right

everyone would have believed them and the people who knew diffently, wouldn't have even been asked their opinion.

[LynnTheDem]

22. No I don't think so.

bush didn't even try to say he had to invade Iraq for ITEMS IRAQ WAS ALLOWED TO HAVE.

These explosives WERE NOT PROHIBITED. Iraq was ALLOWED TO HAVE THEM. The explosives are NOT and NEVER HAVE BEEN on the UN Resolutions list of prohibited items.

It was VERY well-known that Iraq had these explosives, the Al QaQaa site was VERY well-known, and it was VERY well-known that the UN had been monitoring the use of Iraq's explosives since 1991.

Iraq is ALLOWED to have those explosives, but coz HMX has a dual use, the IAEA monitored Iraq's use of the stuff to make sure they ONLY used it for civilian purposes.

For bush to have used these explosives as justification for invasion would have been the same as bush saying he had to invade Iraq because they had donkeys. And hell yes that would have been widely pointed out. And bush KNOWS this; otherwise he'd already have tried that excuse...it's the only one he DIDN'T try.

[abumbyanyothername]

28. It NEEDS to be driven home to the American public

Because they are not picking up on the subtlties.

The reason these explosives were not secured is because they were not what we went to Iraq looking for.

I know he SAID we were looking for weapons, but we REALLY were NOT LOOKING FOR WEAPONS.

We were looking for oil and empire.

This proves it.

[LynnTheDem]

30. bush said we were looking for HIDDEN PROHIBITED "WMD"

Al QaQaa explosives were NOT hidden.

Al QaQaa explosives were NOT prohibited.

Al QaQaa explosives were NOT "WMD".

But ANYONE with ANY BRAIN WHATSOEVER planning to INVADE another nation would have sent in enough troops to SECURE ALL sources of ANYTHING that could be used against our uniformed men, women & teenagers and given the orders to secure all such sources, including;

-Gun shops.

-Weapons depots.

-Munitions dumps.

-Civilian-use explosives factories & storage bunkers.

-Nuclear facilities.

ALL such sources should have been SECURED...but BUSH REFUSED to send in enough troops to do so, and BUSH REFUSED to give orders to secure anything but the Ministry of Oil and the oilwells.

BUSH is responsible for every death & maiming of our uniformed men, women & teenagers, every coalition soldier, every Iraqi.

[sampsonblk]

17. "This Story is Over..." - Quote of the night!

Aaron Brown was talking about Friday morning's headlines. When he came to the Wash Times, their lead story is going to be the Pentagon's bogus satellite photos. That prompted Brown to drop the best line of the evening...

"This story is over. Maybe not for the Washington Times. But I've seen the video, and this whole dispute. . . well its OVER."

[cubsfan forever]

36. Kick! n/t

Professor 2

[Itchinjim]

19. They are SO fucked!

YEEEHAW!

[NVMojo]

20. Well, well, well. This puts the wolf ad in a whole different light.

I just got to see that stupid ad today for the first time. What a joke, but even more so in light of this blatant disregard for keeping Weapons that Kill Large Numbers of People out of the hands of terrorists. I am embarassed for the USA.

[Bundbuster]

32. Brought to you by...

[Pachamama]

33. As I watched this I said to my husband "I just heard the sound of victory"

:bounce:

So how long before the Bush Administration tries to say that David Kay rapes babies and beats up old ladies?

GAME OVER!!!!

[manic]

34. Boom. That is all. (n/t)

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

37. basically I heard on faux some guy say

score that one for Kerry, look for faux to try and weasel out of this

[emald]

39. L. PaulBremer is on right now Today show

and stating that there is no way those explosives exist because there was no traffic out of Al Qa Qaa.
So I guess that the stuff is still there. Hold it, it's gone isn't it? Man to be able to lie like that is quite a skill. To state something that is obviously not true and backed up with video is astounding. These people are purely evil. Man, I hope they don't take this election.

[Supersedeas]

41. Bremer and the Major feed the same ole dawg show...but Media didn't bite

[goodhue]

40. kick for Dean Staley and Joe Caffrey