Clark just said Dean DID offer him the VP position.. Trippi says no...

[wyldwolf]

..on George Stepho.. Stuffo... you know his name... on ABC.

Trippi says Clark gave Dean advice on the war...

[wndycty]

1. It sounds like a controversy on the rise . .

:kick: :dem: :kick: :dem: :kick: :dem:

[Raya]

12. Who do you BELIEVE?

[wndycty]

54. Given that I am a Clark support. . .

. . .I believe the General.

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. I don't buy that Dean "offered" anything to Clark

I don't doubt they discussed the possiblity, but Dean wouldn't make an actual offer that early. I think Clark's ego is getting away with him.

[wndycty]

4. Denial is not a river in Egypt. . .

. . .do you remember all those rumors floated by the Dean camp that Clark was going to be Dean's VP?

[KaraokeKarlton]

6. Like I said, I believe the discussion came up

but having a discussion about the possibility is NOT offering anything.

[Nazgul35]

14. you are wrong....

no one from any specific campiagn was identified as having spread that piece of inofrmation....

If anything, now that the Clark camp is starting it up again, I would say the finger points to the Clark camp at starting that rumor....

Don't forget what event heralded Clark's entry into the race....the leak about the meeting between Dean, where an anonymous person claims Dean offered Clark the VP slot and the clark announcement at the same time Edwards was making his official announcement....

the finger prints of campaign tactics are all over these events and they are from the Clark camp...

So sell this nonsense somewhere else....

[wndycty]

17. I'll sell it right here and its not nonsense. . .

Dean can either confirm it or call Clark a liar. I encourage him to.

[virtualobserver]

22. Clark didn't actually say that he was offered the VP slot.

"It was sort of discussed ... and dangled before I made the decision to run" is not a description of an actual offer.

He didn't actually say that he was offered the VP slot.

"sort of discussed" is what he actually said.

[Nazgul35]

25. way to ignore the entire post

without having to address the points I made...

You have no way of knowing who it was that leaked the information....I have offered a plausible scenario...which seems to be backed up by recent events...as it is the Clark campiagn that is pushing the "Dean offered my the VP slot" story....

Other than your imagination....what do you have to back up your claims?

[wndycty]

28. OK we don't know who leaked the information. . .

. . .but the Dean camp can and should do the following either fess up and admit that they offered Clark the spot or call Clark a liar. Its that simple!

[hilzoy]

56. It's not the Clark campaign

I watched This Week. Clark didn't bring it up; Stephanopolous did. Clark just answered the question.

[Justice]

26. No, You Are Wrong

Fingerprints, rumors, huh?

Clark was answering a question.

Admitting that Dean wanted Clark doesn't make Dean weak or a bad guy -- although some Dean supporters think admitting it does so.

Actually, from my perspective it makes Dean look better - as he recognized the value of Clark! Kudos to Dean for seeing a good thing.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

55. People don't be so naive. This rumor was obviously put out there

by Dean & Co. It was soooo widespread. A few journalists SAID it was DeanCo. It was intended as a put-down of Clark and it worked - for a while.

I worked on the Daley campaign with Trippi - this was classic "Chicago Politics." Ya have to be a political neophyte not to recognize this move.

[wyldwolf]

5. Actually what Trippi said was..

...something like, "I didn't attend that meeting." And when pressed by Steppha... stuffo... you know... Trippi said, "No, I don't think that offer was made."

Again, paraphrased.

[Nazgul35]

20. paraphrased wrong...

what Trippi said was that in the meeting he attended, no such offer was made...he didn't imply that there were other meetings or that the possibility of the offer happening at another time occured....

wow...

[virtualobserver]

24. I think that he did rule out an actual offer...

and Clark didn't actually say that it was offered.

He said that it was "sort of discussed" and "dangled" .

Sounds like Dean was trying to feel him out on whether he would actually run.

[Rose Siding]

23. And what Clark actually said was...

"it was sort of discussed" and "dangled". Sounds like Trippi is being accurate, too.

[Justice]

21. Parsing Words Like Joe Trippi

Clark said Dean dangled the VP slot in front of him. I believe Clark.

[OKNancy]

30. Why has it taken three months to deny the story?

because it is b.s., that's why

[ajacobson]

3. George Will

was going on about Dean running as a third party candidate if he doesn't get the Dem nom--is this a figment of his fevered imagination or this idea really getting shopped around within the Beltway?

[dsc]

7. In a swearing contest

between Joe Isuzu and George Will I would have to flip a coin.

[KaraokeKarlton]

9. Dean said he won't do t hat many, many times

But I'll tell you something, every day that passes with the attacks from the Democratic party on Howard Dean gets me closer and closer to the point where I will probably stay home if Dean isn't the nominee.

I will also say this...IF Dean were to run as an Independent against both Bush and a Democratic nominee, I would vote for Dean.

[Bucky]

10. Where there's a Will, there's a duh

When talking about Democrats Will often says things out of keeping with the reality we all live in. That's strange, coz when he's just talking about government in general, he can be quite logical and persuasive. He's almost always wrong, but I can usually at least understand where his ideas come from. But he's got a bad case of partisan blinders (or is willing to say any stupid thing as long as it bad mouths the Democrats).

[VolcanoJen]

8. Link to Reuters story

Well, Reuters happens to think it's a newsworthy development...

Clark Says Dean Sought Him as Running Mate - Reuters

[wndycty]

11. Oh oh

The Dean camp should do one of two things either fess up and say that Clark was offered the VP slot or call Clark a liar.

[Cheswick2.0]

64. oh sush

no one needs to call anyone a liar.

[Killarney]

13. There's no way there will be a Dean/Clark ticket now

Clark said "absolutely not". I'm disappointed. I see his point (being that he wants to be Commander in Chief) but I really wanted to see a Dean/Clark ticket.

Clark said he had a meeting in early September with Dean, considered the front runner for the Democratic presidential nomination next year, and he told the former Vermont governor he was "really not interested in even talking about it."

The issue, Clark said, was "whether I'm going to be the commander in chief or not." Clark said he felt he could make the "best contribution" to the country as president "because I believe I'm the best qualified person to protect the United States..."

Clark, an Arkansas native, said he was "absolutely not" interested in being Dean's running mate, adding "I don't see that in the cards."

[wyldwolf]

18. I disagree...

Of course Clark would say that...saying anything different would demoralize those pushing for a Clark presidency.

[thinkahead]

38. didn't realize Clark was into Tarot

;)

Clark, an Arkansas native, said he was "absolutely not" interested in being Dean's running mate, adding "I don't see that in the cards."

"Miss Cleo, help!"

sorry, couldn't resist

[wyldwolf]

16. It was probably phrased in such a way that If Clark said no...

..the Dean camp could legitimately say the offer wan't made...

Example,

"If you were offered the VP slot on the ticked by any of the candidates, how would you feel about it? What about by the frontrunner?"

[BootinUp]

15. Of course he did

Its somewhat embarrassing for the Dean camp to admit it now but what else was that meeting about? Lets drop the pretending.

[Justice]

19. Clark says Before Clark Announced - Dean "Dangled It" The VP Slot

I believe Clark - I don't think Trippi is being honest - he was hedging too much - parsing his words.

I believe Dean dangled the VP slot in front of Clark so that Clark would not run for President. Come on people, of course he did.

Dean is a smart guy - imagine late last summer - here he is well positioned, yet there is the noise everywhere, this speculation about Clark running. Dean thinks his momentum will be affected - he has been talking to Clark, getting foreign policy advice. I think Dean offered Clark the VP slot, thinking this would cement his nomination. This would have been classic Dean - very clever, very smart.

Now with the benefit of hindsight, Dean sees Clark didn't overtake him - Dean is in the lead - Dean wants to minimize those conversations and minimize speculation that Dean thought he needed Clark. I think Dean also wants to minimize Clark.

Dangle is probably just the right word - remember Dean speaking in Florida at the convention - remember how he "dangled" Graham to the crowd - with a wink and a smile - thanking Graham for his service in the Senate and saying he hoped that Graham would be able to serve his country again? This board lit up - Dean supporters, supporters of other candidates all saying - that is it - the ticket will be Dean and Graham.

Dean can choose whoever he wants if he gets the nomination - but I do think Dean wanted Clark last summer, and he is not being truthful now.

[Donna Zen]

27. Let's look at the evidence beyond the back room

Right after this appeared in the paper, which was right after a meeting between Dean and Clark, Marshall said it was dirty tricks on the part of Trippi. BTW, Marshall is well connected and his blog doesn't present unfounded allegations. Next, within the week, we have Dean on iirc ABC or CNN saying Clark would make a fine VP.


Note to Trippi: you both qualify and protest too much.

This post has been edited to remove second hand knowledge, which should not be part of any official record. Thanks Jim.

[wyldwolf]

29. This is how I got my first date with the woman who became my wife...

"If someone like me were to ask you out, what would you say?"

If she'd said no, I could honestly say I never asked..

[BootinUp]

31. I'd like to see one of those letters

Thats a pretty serious charge, if it is not true we should clear the record there, if it is true, it bothers me quite a bit.

[wyldwolf]

34. As would I ...

...of course, If one was shown, some could easily say it was fake.

[Field Of Dreams]

33. I've heard that as well...

That is why the last sentence in my letter to New Hampshire voters is that Clark has said he will not be Vice President.

[mzmolly]

32. The article says they discussed the possibility, as we all knew.

Both men denied the actual 'offer' took place some time ago. The media loves a story/controversy.

Dean said at one time Clark was on his list of considerations.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

41. Where Did Clark Ever Deny an Offer Was Made?

Link? I don't remember that at all. He denied he was interested in VP, that's all.

DTH

[mzmolly]

58. Shortly after the first scuttlebut came about.

Dean denied it in the press as well. And Wes never 'disputed' the claim at that time either.

It's more spin from the press to create a story where there is none.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

59. Exactly, Wes Never "Disputed" the Claim

Clark is under no affirmative obligation to raise an issue if he doesn't want to. He is under no obligation to correct Dean on the record every time Dean opens his mouth.

Clark NEVER denied that Dean offered him the VP slot. And when asked about it directly by a reporter on national television, he told the truth: that Howard Dean DID dangle the VP slot as an incentive to Clark not to enter the race.

DTH

[mzmolly]

61. dangle = offer? Dean said they discussed the possibility

dangle = discuss, which is what Dean said they did. In other words this = no story.

I believe I read that Clark denied it, but it's not worth my time digging it up at this point. It's a non story.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

62. Well, on THAT We Agree

I think it's a non-issue, really. Dean won't make it an issue, either, because it highlights his weaknesses.

DTH

[mzmolly]

65. Show his weaknesses? Seeking a General for the VP slot is now a weakness?

hmmmm, intttttt-eresting. :freak: :hi:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

69. Dean Wanting (or Needing) Clark as VP, Dean Consulting Clark on FP

These are issues Dean does not want broadcast right now. I think that's self-evident, no?

You don't really have to take offense at every comment about Dean, you know. Sometimes you can just acknowledge that every candidate, no matter how much you love him or her, has strengths and weaknesses.

DTH

[mzmolly]

70. Ah no. Is Wes planning on having a VP that strengthens his campaign?

Does Wes have any weaknesses?

Dean will fortify his cabinet with people who add 'strength' to his leadership, as would any other candidate.

I don't think Dean is trying to hide anything as he himself said he considered Clark. The question here is did he offer anything to Clark, the answer here is no.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

72. The Answer Remains To Be Seen

And to answer your question, certainly Clark has weaknesses. I just don't think they're as significant as Dean's, especially when the Republicans start up their slime machine, since Dean already fits neatly into stereotypes that the Republicans and the media have been pushing for decades.

But obviously, YMMV.

DTH

[KaraokeKarlton]

86. Dean doesn't "need" Clark

Bob Graham would be a much better VP anyhow. We all know that Iraq was nothing more than a distraction from dealing with Al Qaida. Graham has more experience dealing with terrorism than Clark does, too, because he gets to see all the intelligence. Clark is NOT the best candidate to fight terrorism, and that's what voters are worried about regarding defense. Hell, even Kerry is better than Clark on terrorism issues. Clark has no domestic experience whatsoever, has never even won an election before in his life and is totally untested. The only job in the white house the man is actually qualified for is Secretary of Defense. He's not even qualified for VP and there are plenty of others who would be better as Secretary of Defense than he would be. He's only getting any attention at all because too many Democrats think the only way to compete with Bush is to run a uniform against him.

[bushclipper]

35. I believe it was

And it makes sense that it would be denied now.

[bushclipper]

36. Is there a transcript on this yet?

Anyone know?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

39. VIDEO OF APPEARANCE HERE

http://www.us4clark.com/mediaclips.html

DTH

[wyldwolf]

40. Hey! Long time no see!

Nah, can't find a transcript yet

[arewethereyet]

37. these boys really ought to get their stories straight

there is at least one liar here but I really think its two

[wndycty]

42. Well I encourage Dean to either call Clark a liar. . .

. . .or fess up and admit his offered him the slot. That will put an end to it.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

44. Dean Will Ignore It

If this becomes an "issue" it will also draw attention to the fact that Dean was relying on Clark for foreign policy advice...something Howard Dean wants to avoid at all costs, as it draws clear distinctions between them.

DTH

[zulchzulu]

48. Dean ignores the truth all the time, so you're right!

[TorchTheWitch]

75. not buying it

If this becomes an "issue" it will also draw attention to the fact that Dean was relying on Clark for foreign policy advice...something Howard Dean wants to avoid at all costs, as it draws clear distinctions between them.

That I just don't buy. If Clark was about to make a decision to run, he would not be giving Dean advice on foreign policy to a competitor who's weakness in that area is a major plus for Clark. Nobody peddles their expertise for free anyway. At best, they may have discussed who Dean could seak out for foreign policy advisors. In any case, Trippi saying that was a big boo-boo... it makes Dean look desperate searching for advice on his weakest point. He's been running for what? two years now? and he just finally came out with a foreign policy speech when he's running on a platform of a foreign policy issue. By the time Clark and Dean were strolling the horizon, Dean probably was desperate for advice.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

76. It's Well-Established That Clark Was Advising Dean on FP

Sorry if that does not jibe with your expectations.

DTH

[Donna Zen]

85. After the Dean MTP appearance

Shortly after the Dean MTP morning (June ?) when he was caught up when Russert asked about the number of troops in Iraq, I believe he consulted Clark. Dean has admitted that he spoke to Clark several times during the summer.

[arewethereyet]

45. I agree 100%

time to fish or cut bait on this

[Cheswick2.0]

67. Maybe then they can put on gloves and box it out?

would that make you happy? :eyes:

[arewethereyet]

77. oh yes yes !

only no gloves !

[OKNancy]

43. Link of Josh Marshall - September

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_07.html#001940

Edit: Washinton Post story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A57770-2003Sep10¬Found=true

Gen. Clark Reportedly Is Asked to Join Dean

By Jim VandeHei and Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, September 11, 2003; Page A01


Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean has asked retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark to join his campaign, if the former NATO commander does not jump into the race himself next week, and the two men discussed the vice presidency at a weekend meeting in California, sources familiar with the discussions said.

Oh, and another edit: apparently Wes Clark Jr. was there, so we Clark supporters will be digging more for info and confirmation.

[madfloridian]

46. Dean denied it then.....accord to TPM

..."He (Clark) met Saturday with former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, who said it is too soon to talk about political alliances.
"There is a lot of vetting that would have to be done before you would have those kinds of discussions," Dean said when asked whether he had discussed the vice presidency with Clark.

[wyldwolf]

51. Technically not a denial...

[madfloridian]

57. Sounds like one to me.

..."He (Clark) met Saturday with former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, who said it is too soon to talk about political alliances.
"There is a lot of vetting that would have to be done before you would have those kinds of discussions," Dean said when asked whether he had discussed the vice presidency with Clark.

[wyldwolf]

60. A denial would have been...

No, I did not....

What Dean did was avoid the question.

[maddezmom]

50. thanks for posting

Clark and Dean met 4 times....probably talked about a lot of stuff. :)

[bicentennial_baby]

47. WaPo 9/11/03: Gen. Clark Reportedly Is Asked to Join Dean

"Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean has asked retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark to join his campaign, if the former NATO commander does not jump into the race himself next week, and the two men discussed the vice presidency at a weekend meeting in California, sources familiar with the discussions said.

Clark, in a telephone interview yesterday, said he did not want to comment about the private meeting. Asked about reports that the two men had discussed a wide range of issues, including endorsing Dean, joining the campaign, possible roles in a Dean administration and the vice presidency, he said only, "It was a complete tour of the horizon."

Later, an adviser quoted Clark as saying, "I have only one decision to make: Will I seek the presidency?"

It was the fourth time Dean and Clark have met face-to-face to discuss the campaign. No decisions were made at the California meeting because Clark is still considering a run for president. Clark is scheduled to make a speech Sept.19 at the University of Iowa, when many political insiders expect him to announce his intentions."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A57770-2003Sep10¬Found=true

[wndycty]

52. Oh oh

[mzmolly]

63. A story came out after this which proved it to be 'scuttlebut'

The press is looking for a story where there is none frankly. If Clark is saying Dean offered him the position, then we have a story or two.

Clark did not say that to my knowlege. We have a reporter who want's a headline here. Guess he got it.

[wyldwolf]

71. Where is said story?

[mzmolly]

74. Search DU it's been all over here.

I'm not gonna do it for you because this story will be dead by Tuesday when both camps 'clarify' the issue.

[wyldwolf]

78. Where is said story that proved the first to be "scuttlebut."

If you won't produce the story after making the claim, we can only assume none exists.

Also, should you have a change of heart and decide to prove your assertion (and I have no doubt such a story exists - I just think it is proper for one to prove their statements, not tell others to do it for them), I would then think you might show how that story proves the first is "scuttlebut."

[mzmolly]

79. Assume what you will, and remember who told you the story would be dead by

Tuesday. :hi:

[robbedvoter]

90. Story wouldn't have existed if not for Trippi.

He should have said "I dunno, I wasn't there" - or even - gasp-the truth. Now, clarification needs to be an apology.

[Octafish]

49. Who wants to be Number Two to a Third-Stringer?

Clark is qualified to be President.

Dean is not.

[wndycty]

53. Ouch!

Bam that hurts!

[Cheswick2.0]

68. And Kerry sucks and probably won't even win MA primary

so nah nah nah

Gee what a fun thread

[Octafish]

81. Kerry is a REAL Democrat.

Dean is a phony. That's real.

[wndycty]

82. Why do you attack Kerry in a Dean/Clark thread. . .

. . .very very immature! :shrug:

[Cheswick2.0]

66. A whole thread about nothing

What if Dean did make that offer? So? Clark said it was an offer. Trippi said it was discussed as a possibility.....hmmmmm big controversy. :shrug:

[wyldwolf]

73. It's obviously important with many...

[robbedvoter]

88. Clark said it happened. Trippi said it didn't. CNN is alreeady siding with

their boy. Check their headline:

Dean campaign denies it offered VP slot to Clark


http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/21/elec04.prez.democrats/
YOUR E-MAIL ALERTS
I don't take this lightly. I am expecting apologies.

[KaraokeKarlton]

80. It's totally irrelevent at this point anyhow

Dean will never ask Clark to be his VP after Clark's speech praising the Bush administration at a fundraiser for them. It's a matter of principle, and Dean only surrounds himself with people he's sure he can trust. I'm pretty sure that Dean lost a great deal of respect for Clark after that story broke. I know that I did. It's difficult for me to trust him knowing that.

[robbedvoter]

89. Dean used the VP ploy to get the union endorsement - and soothe

antsy supporters. Admirable!

[adadem]

83. And, as recent history

has shown us they will blame Kerry!

[PATRICK]

84. another example

of Clark's way of answering forthrightly about the back room dealings. He is becoming less likely to waffle or obfuscate for the sake of the game- which ironically resembles Dean's public positioning as well. I find this refreshing and not worth shirt tearing and ashes.

[robbedvoter]

87. Josh Marshall chronicles dirty trick:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_07.html#001940
(September 11, 2003 -- 11:39 PM EDT // link // print)
This piece by Dan Balz is Friday's Washington Post strikes me as a very accurate assessment of the swirl currently whipping around Wes Clark and the pressure on him to get off the dime.

-- Josh Marshall

(September 11, 2003 -- 03:57 PM EDT // link // print)
Aha! More news about Dean Campaign Manager Joe Trippi's 'he's-begging-to-be-our-VP' dirty tricks campaign against Wes Clark. This from the just-posted edition of USNews' Washington Whispers ...

And forget about that talk that all the retired four-star general and former NATO boss wants is the veep nomination. Supporters say that's a dirty-tricks campaign pushed by rival Howard Dean who's scared of a Clark candidacy. Says Frisby: "Wes Clark firmly believes that he is the best choice to be president, not be vice president or hold any other government post."
Leave it to TPM to bring you the scoop first.

I was very distressed by these tricks. Especially since I know that they used the VP story to secure the Union endorsements over Clark.

[madfloridian]

92. This is from the WP article mentioned at TPM

SNIP..."Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean has asked retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark to join his campaign, if the former NATO commander does not jump into the race himself next week, and the two men discussed the vice presidency at a weekend meeting in California, sources familiar with the discussions said.
...."

SNIP..."Most of our conversations have been around my getting advice on defense, and sometime he asks me about domestic issues," Dean said in an interview yesterday. "This is a guy I like a lot. I think he's certainly going to be on everybody's list if he's not the presidential nominee himself." Dean declined to discuss their private conversations....."

Where does it say that Dean asked him to be VP, or even gave out the news that he had? This is an interview with Clark, not Dean. Dean has the quotes above.

And I thought this was a strange comment from the Post because I never heard Dean say anything like this:

SNIP..."Dean has increasingly talked up Clark as a possible running mate or as a presidential candidate, pointing to the general's 33-year military record, which included a victory in Kosovo as commander of NATO forces in Europe. Dean's laudatory comments have fueled speculation among top Democrats that the two men might join forces soon on a Dean-Clark 2004 campaign...."

We have supported Dean since before he was an *, and I never heard him say any of that about talking up Clark as VP.....though I often heard him say that he liked him.

This is like a bunch of 3rd person stuff like he said I said, etc.

[xrepub]

91. What happened

What likely happened:

Dean, understanding that Clark would be an asset as a running mate, talked about the possibility. He phrased his questions in a way that Clark could understand he was getting an offer, but he could deny an offer was made.

I believe Clark when he says that he will not accept the number 2 spot. VP may be important symbolically and politically, but the position is ceremonial unless the pres declares otherwise.

It is important for Clark to reject the VP slot now, otherwise, he would be at a disadvantage in the primaries.

I am not sure why anyone is making a big deal about this. I don't think it reflects poorly on Dean if he did make the offer. Nor should it be considered a plus for Clark if he got the offer. The only important idea here is that Clark does not want VP position