Kerry just pissed me off. He ruined the entire butt-kicking that Condi

[hector459]

received earlier. I am so disappointed in him. doesn't he know by now that this administration never intends to work in a bi-partisan way with Dems execpt Zell Miller? Right now, I am glad Kerry lost.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

1. glad kerry lost?

interesting.

why?

[cindyw]

2. Why in God's name would you wish that on all of us?

[LittleClarkie]

3. And yet some are digging it

Lulling her into a false sense of security. I don't know. I can't see.

Some also think that perhaps he's forcing the proceedings into tomorrow. I'm sure there's a reason.

Right now, I'm sorry Kerry lost. Imagine that.

[sendero]

26. Lulling her into a false sense of security?

Is that like "working behind the scenes"?

Sure, that's what he's doing. You bet.

[Peak_Oil]

27. THAT was a stretch.

Oh, that's his plan, ease off the attack so somebody else can move in there and really give it to her tomorrow. Jesus! You gotta stop this. It reminds me of fundies getting their "apologetics" on.

I would rather have Kerry in there because he would have probably brought some moderating voices on board and gotten rid of the PNAC wackos, but you have got to be kidding me. His performance was definitely less than stellar.

[Malva Zebrina]

37. It is magical thinking nt

[LittleClarkie]

49. Hey man, I can't see. It was a guess. Hence the question mark.

I'll have a better idea if CSPAN shows it later on tonight. I hope, I hope, I hope.

[Peak_Oil]

54. Nothing personal.

Nothing to do with you.

It's that kind of mindset I object to. My fundie friends call it apologetics, and it involves putting yourself through some amazing contortions to bend the facts to suit an outcome you would like to see. I know, Kerry's performance is a matter of subjectivity, but it's not totally unknowable.

Here's the problem with that kind of thinking. It takes away from the strenght of your position when you're actually right. Follow me?

Kerry's performance today was weak. He looked slumped over and didn't take the fight to Condi with half the vigor that Boxer and Dodd (who I'd never heard of til today) did. It wasn't horrible or pathetic or anything, but it was lackluster. I don't think anybody here would argue with me on that.

The reason I picked on you today is because I'd want to be able to cut and paste your comments directly to FR and have them say, "You know, that guy really tells it straight. I'd listen to him in the future. This is a respectable source of information, not just parroting the party line or whatever."

[LittleClarkie]

55. Slumped over?

Did he look tired?

Kerry's never at his best when he's tired. He says stupid stuff when he's tired.

I wonder if it was jetlag. Or another cold. Was that your impression, that he was for the most part, just tired? Or was it something else?

[Peak_Oil]

56. Yeah, he looked tired to me.

Dodd, on the other hand, looked like a tiger. Who was that masked Senator?

[Leilani]

45. They already have a session planned for tomorrow AM

so that doesn't apply.

[LittleClarkie]

50. Just repeating stuff from the other thread

Like I said, some were diggin' the approach. I don't know if I dig it yet. I can't see it. I wanna see it. But I can't see it.

I hate work.

[seabeyond]

58. i think they had to go to 7

and i think boxer wanted kerry to be the last one. and boxer wanted one more go at her in the morning. she asked to get it to end after kerry on the second round. lugar said no would do everyone, then if more questions needed in the morning. i think lugar is working with dems on this, but didnt catch that. so on the third round sounded like kerry was going on and on til he reached 7

guessing from what i had heard earlier

[seabeyond]

60. dupe

[LittleClarkie]

63. Sort of a tag team mentality

Would be nice to think they've got their strategy worked out.

[seabeyond]

69. oh they did.

lugar was in it too. at one point you had dobbs kerry and boxer chatting and osama and lugar, was the funnest

[LittleClarkie]

70. You freaked me out for a moment. Obama! It's Obama!

That poor kid. I bet he gets that alot.

[seabeyond]

72. lol lol lo lol bah hahah, ya thanks.

oh that is funny. has beeen a long day. i hear kennedy did it the other day.

[Boswells_Johnson]

4. He will be able to refer back to that statement when the administration

doesn't work cooperatively. He will, at that point, be able to say, "Look, I offered to work with you, but you refused to do so..."

I think it was a smart thing for Kerry to do.

As well, he couldn't use the administration's unwillingness to work with others if the "others" weren't willing to work with the administration.

[Pastiche423]

5. I agree

He just sucked out the energy and momentum that Boxer and Dodd infused into the hearing.

Just WTH did he think he was achieving?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

6. how did he do that?

what did you think he wasn't achieving?

[Pastiche423]

18. IMHO

He was achieving squat.

The unnerving of Condi that Boxer, Dodd and a few others accomplished was drained out by Kerry's droning.

[Geek_Girl]

73. Honestly I don't think he did it on purpose

That's just Kerry's style or personality. Overall I thought they all did well. Maybe Kerry was not as energized and aggressive as the rest but Kerry just isn't aggressive. He just isn't like that.

I like Kerry but he really should not run in '08 he just doesn't have the charisma, unfortunately that you need to run for president.

[Mabus]

7. looking towards 2008

:shrug: At least that's the impression I walked away with.

[ldf]

51. he can look all he wants to

as far as i'm concerned he has shown himself to definitely be lacking what it takes to be president.

he's not an option for 08.

i'd take boxer anyday, over kerry.

[TayTay]

40. Being a Senator

I want the Dems to kick Condi's ass too! (Any proxy for the Idiot King will do, actually.) But what did you want him to do at the end? Tell her that you hope she and the entire foreign policy of the US goes down in flames. We have troops in Iraq whose lives are on the line. It would be unAmerican and irresponsible not to wish for a bipartisan solution to getting help for Iraq.

Do you want to tell the parents/spouses/children of people in Iraq that you hope diplomacy and bipartisanship fails? I don't. Kerry has to say this. That said, I don't think the Admin is listening. But you can't say you didn't offer some help.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

47. very reasoned post

well said. i agree completely.

[rucky]

77. Is that what Boxer was doing? n/t

[TayTay]

78. What, being responsible

and standing up for Americans who oppose the screw-up of the Bushies. Yeah, I think she was. She and Kerry have different styles, as no doubt you and I would have different styles. Both worked today.

[arcane1]

8. glad Kerry lost = glad Bush won

:eyes:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

23. what became of subtlety?

:eyes:

[Still_Loves_John]

9. I think it's a weird thing with some people here.

It's like if one of our guys isn't totally railing against a Republican, then they've totally deserted us. There's such things as "tact" and "decorum." Kerry can still do a good job without yelling until he's blue in the face.

[dvaravati]

14. Why are Dems the only ones afraid of appearing partisan

?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

19. yeah some people

well. . . some people you can't quite figure out because they don't qualify their statements.

there, i said it without breaking any rules.

[rodeodance]

24. I agree, Kerry did well today!!

[Mr.Green93]

10. His face

looks different.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

13. how so?

i didn't notice.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

11. im really waiting for a response in case you were wondering.

just a few qualifiers is all i ask. im genuinely interested in what you think.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

29. that's my impression as well

typical myopic MO.

[hector459]

64. No, I am a Dean supporter.

I am glad Kerry lost for several reasons. the first is Bush should clean up his own mess. Yes, I voted for Kerry. But I am really afraid that Kerry is just one more of the Skull & and Crossies. There are many Dems who are difficult to distinguish from Republicans and those of us who think so should not be called "Freepers."

I am just so diapponted in Kerry right now but many people feel as I do that he is "wishy-washy." I did'nt think it would be a crime to express one's opinion on DU. I want someone of the Dems to stand up against this regime and I mean really stand up against it. If Kerry votes against Rice, I'll apologize.

[0007]

68. Get a life get a star show support!

[MadisonProgressive]

83. Time to apologize!

[cestpaspossible]

84. Waiting for your apology.

[Quixote1818]

12. Kerry was somber but he did say he didn't know if he could vote for her

While put in a somber way that is pretty harsh! I will reserve judgment until after he votes. I think he did fine but could have done better however he better vote against her.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

15. how could he possibly vote for her?

i was wondering about this earlier.

[Pastiche423]

20. The same way he voted for the IWR

[SlavesandBulldozers]

28. ok

but that could work both ways. knowing what he knows now. . . and so on. im not saying youre wrong.

[Pastiche423]

30. Knowing what he knows now?

Do you mean that he would vote the same, EVEN after what he knows now?

Confused.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

38. im saying that i can't possibly imagine why he would vote for her.

and im saying that his IWR vote stung him, and he should learn from that and not vote for her.

[LittleClarkie]

52. I wish I knew if I could trust a Boston Globe report after the election

that reported from a campaign aide who said that when asked the question "Knowing what we know now..." at the Grand Canyon, Kerry lost the "Knowing what you know now" part in the wind (some residual hearing loss from the military, they said). The aide said that Kerry thought he was answering the standard question about his vote then, not a hypothetical about what he'd do with current knowledge. They thought about coming out with the explanation, but thought it would just feed into the "flip flop" meme.

I don't know if that is the truth, or a lame excuse. Interesting though.

[Pastiche423]

53. You're kidding, right?

How many times did he have to say it for you to believe he said it?

Sheesh!

:eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

57. Hey, I'm just reporting what I read in the Globe

and wondering if it had any validity. I do that. I gather info from several sources, and wonder how much validity they have. I try not to swallow whole if I can help it.

[Pastiche423]

59. Are you still wondering?

[LittleClarkie]

62. I dunno, I'd have to go back and give it a better look

If he was saying the "it's a power I'd give any president, I gave it to Clinton, for instance" line before the Grand Canyon, then I'd know the aide was trying to make excuses. I'd have to examine his speeches and comments a bit more than I have, esp. the IWR Resolution speech he made on the Senate floor. I've only really grazed that area so far.

Still working on my Kerry degree. Only have an AA so far. Working on my BA.

[Pastiche423]

66. A little slow on the uptake, eh?

He said it. Then he said it again and again and again.

About his speech prior to his incredibly stupid and incredibly harmful IRW vote...

It was a good speech, saying the whys and wherefores as to the wrongness of the invasion.

Then he fucking voted YES!

[rodeodance]

22. Kerry left on a note of her responsibilites -not allowing her to blame

others. He also gave her some good advice about international relations . He did good at the end. I can only hope that some (not so suble) advice will sink in. His style is not as confrontational as Boxer but he more than carried his own weight today---ESPECIALLY at the end.

[Geek_Girl]

74. I hope he doesn't vote for her

But then again I hope all the democrats do not vote for her. I would love for the democrats to have a united front and let the world know that not all Americans agree with Bush's disgraceful foreign policy.

Overall I thought Kerry did ok but he did seem tired.

[AlCzervik]

16. Kerry got her on record on a lot of subjects

they will be used later. He did nothing to take away what Boxer did.

[Nightwing]

17. So you are happy that * won???

Good God if there are more of you that think this way, this party is in more serious trouble than I could ever imagine. Who here is willing to bash Kerry rather than fighting this horse puckey administration? And if so please move to the other side of the aisle. We do not need any back stabbing SOB's who would gladly suffer at the hands of this ruthless, cold hearted, bastard President.

People like you make me want to :puke:

[hector459]

67. No. I am just having a terrible breakdown here.

The way the hearings ended almost wiped away the sensation of having Condi on the ropes. Kerry made her seem almost acceptable in those last moments. One thing the Republicans have over the Dems is that they have a story and they stick to it...lies and all. I wish we could stick to our own story...the truth. We don't have be nice to these insane people. Being nice and civil just doesn't work. How long will it take for that to sink in?

[Guaranteed]

21. No he didn't.

It was a good discussion, a good contrast to the ass-kicking she received from others.

And he wore her out real good.

[blm]

35. It was an intellectual exercise in what GOOD GOVERNANCE should look like.

When it's applied, that is.

[Guaranteed]

44. Absolutely.

He was setting an example, among other things.

[LittleClarkie]

71. Wait a minute, Bullgoose

I thought you were one of the ones still pissed at Kerry. Do I see a hint of a reconciliation (wink wink nudge nudge)?

[Guaranteed]

76. :)

I take every situation individually. When someone does well, it's important to recognize that- even moreso than when they do badly, in this day and age.

[Politiclo8]

31. Isn't it sad................

..........that the only 'man' in the Democratic party who has the stones to confront and expose Condi's lying ass is a wo'man' and once again it's Barbara Boxer. YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

33. i think they all confronted and exposed her

in all honesty,though, Condi's lies dont need confrontation or exposure. not only do the facts speak for themselves, but the lies are written all over her persona.

i also disagree with the premise that to be agressive is somehow a distinctly "manly" trait.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. Glad Kerry lost, eh?

I think there's another forum you'd find more to your liking, then.

[Guns Aximbo]

34. He's weeeeeek

He let her slide on sooo many issues. The whole rotten bunch of them let her slide. She was lying to their faces and they let her slide.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

36. soooo many issues?

name two.

[Geek_Girl]

75. I was a little disappointed in Biden

I think he let her slide on the question of whether the administration had any plans on attacking Iran. She danced all over that one. I really do wish he pinned her down. Maybe they will tomorrow.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

42. i am waiting for a response in case you were wondering.

d'oh well. why do i bother?

[EC]

39. I think Kerry did a good job showing her that HE knew what was

going on over there, and wasn't going to fall for any of their snow jobs again...I think that is part of why he went over there and met with all the leaders now...he's not going to let them get away with their bullying...and Boxer did say she was going to be working with Condi sometime in the future on different issues too, so why hit on Kerry about it? I think he let her know in no uncertain terms that he knows what is what and her lieing wasn't going to wash....

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[juajen]

43. Bullshit, Kerry's brilliant and watching this country like a hawk, well

maybe that's not the word I want. LOL He and the dems wanted this confirmation hearing to last until tomorrow. He was great. For God's sake, he's on our side; stop bashing him.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

46. brilliant?

good god man i wouldnt go that far. even "he and the dems" (alarm bells) wouldn't call him brilliant.

[TayTay]

48. I agree

There was a lot of bashing of Senate Dems for letting Torture Boy Gonzales off easy. So, in this hearing that the WH thought would be easy, the Dems stood up and made Condi squirm. This is coronation week in DC. Everybody is supposed to genuflect to the Boy King and move along quiety. The Dems just put the Boy King and his party on notice that they are not going to roll over for him and they intend to seriously question his nominees. (And programs that get sent up to the hill.)

I think they have to do this. They are not going to get much time otherwise. The rethugs control the debate in Congress. You have to take the opportunity to loudly announce dissent when you can get it. Now, if they can all sound like they are singing off the same page when they go on the talk show circuit. That would be nice. Reinforce the message.

[seabeyond]

61. i have listened to kerry dissing all day. refer to post #58 above.

i think kerry was doing this for boxer. yawl like boxer right, so now you should be ok with kerry stalling the questioning

[spooked]

65. It looked like Condi was thinking that having an Intelligent

President would have been kind of nice.

You could tell she enjoyed the conversation & banter.
He's showing us what UNITERS do.

[robbedvoter]

79. So, they kissed and made up? I ask, since I missed it and this thread

made me more confused than ever.


I guess I'll wait till the vote then.

[spooked]

80. They shook hands yesterday, but he VOTED AGAINST HER today!!

Apparently only Boxer and Kerry voted against her.
Good for them!

[0007]

81. hector459 in #post 64 sez

"If Kerry votes against Rice, I'll apologize."

[IndyPriest]

82. Come on, hector. You can do it. :-)