SS Dismemberment is just a Corporate Tax Break

[Riding this Donkey]

Please do not lose sight of this when making arguments.


1/2 of your ss is paid in taxe by your company.

Just imaging if you are putting your money in a private account. I am sure they will have to match nothing!!!!!!


This whole thing absolutely disgusts me!

Plus what the hell are people age 54-34 going to do. This is appalling! Great values. Younguns, think of yourself!!!!! The gov't sure doesn't give a shit about your parents!

[Bozita]

1. That would explain a lot of Bush's enthusiasm for his "reform"

[Riding this Donkey]

2. I guess nobody cares about this angle n/t

[punpirate]

3. Right now, however,...

... there's been nothing said about any change in the company match. It's not being mentioned, so I think there's going to be a later attempt to remove a part of that requirement once the legislation is introduced.

The plan, as described, doesn't provide any favors for companies, so it's hard to figure out why both the US Chamber of Commerce and the National Association of Manufacturers are so gung-ho for this legislation. My guess is that the change exempting business from a portion of the matching funds will be made in the dead of night in conference the day before the vote....

After all, a reduction in their tax rate is pure profit, without any need to improve productivity or efficiency. Eventually, someone in the House is going to sneak in a provision in their favor.

Cheers.

[SoCalifer]

4. Not In The Law

It helps to keep in mind. What's Not written into a law is just as important as what is written into a law.

In other words: If this reform (assuming) that it doesn't have anything in it requiring employers to match spending going into these private investment accounts, then guess what? They don't have to.

Also since we're in legal mode here, it's interesting to note that the name "private investment account" itself implies a "private" account - meaning if someone were to challenge a company in court as to whether or not they were required to pay matching pay. The judge, looking both at the name "private" and also that there is no mention of employers being required to match pay, will most likely rule that these private accounts are just that - private.

[this_side_up]

5. If my account is private and I own it,

then I should be able to send in a letter
closing the account and have all monies
(including accrued interest) mailed to me.

And I should be able to do this today and
have my check within 4 weeks.

[SoCalifer]

7. Hehehe

I agree, but we're talking about the Govenment. Just like we're talking about the Government when you read your tax book and it says "thank you for paying your voluntary taxes. :(

[this_side_up]

15. lol yeah, volutary

OK, but the govt gave me a SS # and this account
which I and my employer(s) have paid into for
years. It is my name and my number.

So, can't we get a class action law suit started
and decide to opt out of SS?

I know there are cities (Phoenix?) whose employees
have *chosen* not to participate in SS.

Therefore, I/we should be able to opt out. People
who chose to opt out are no better than me.

so, me and spouse choose to opt out.

[punpirate]

6. Well, the other legal matter in this...

... is that any reform has to rescind prior, existing law--and it has to say so. Until that's done, the prior, existing law is still in effect. This latest boondoggle can be called anything, reform or otherwise, but without modifying or repealing that portion of existing law, the prior law stands. That's why, somewhere, it's going to have to say so for employers to get out of the match.

Now, if there's a phrase somewhere in the proposed legislation, tucked away in a little-noticed corner, which says, "this legislation supercedes and replaces US Code XXXX.XXX," then, you're right. But, without that, prior law still stands. In some way, the new legislation has to state that it replaces and supercedes all prior SS law, or portions of it that apply to the match. If it doesn't, it won't.

Cheers.

[slipslidingaway]

8. A question on how to locate a previous post of yours that I read

earlier today. The subject was also SS and your post mentioned keeping the market up while the majority of baby boomers retire and start to withdraw their money from the market. During the 90's when companies were switching from corporate pension plans to self-directed plans the average person most likely did not fare well.

Still finding my way around. TIA

[punpirate]

10. Should be here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1562510&mesg_id=1562663

Cheers.

[slipslidingaway]

11. That is it... thank you! n/t

[LiberalFighter]

13. What about bankruptcy?

How about the govt?
Will the govt be able to go after it if we owe money to them?

[AntiFascist]

9. Tax break?

It sounds more like corporate welfare.

[LiberalFighter]

12. No difference with 401k programs...

How many companies match any employee contribution?

My employer doesn't.

[EVDebs]

14. Read the hidden message in "The Benefits Trap" by

Businessweek magazine www.businessweek.com/magazine/ content/04_29/b3892001_mz001.htm
that shows the corporations are using 'globalization' as an excuse to drop pension and healthcare benefits to Western employees in order to import immigrants or hire illegal immigrants :

""Perhaps most important, in the global economy, long-established U.S. companies are competing against younger rivals here and abroad that pay little or nothing toward their workers' retirement, giving the older companies a huge incentive to dump their plans.""

It's also why they dump older employees too; easier to hire immigrants on visas or illegals on fake Social Security documents and send the jobs overseas along with the profits (both open profits and hidden) !

Want proof about what this does to the economy ? Read this "NATION’S IMMIGRANTS ACCOUNT FOR BULK OF LABOR FORCE GROWTH SINCE 2000 WHILE NATIVE-BORN WORKERS EXPERIENCE HEAVY DECLINE"
http://www.nupr.neu.edu/01-04/immigration_jan.html

And young people are being sold a bill of goods about how they can invest their income into privatized social security and health care accounts ! They'll be lucky to have an entry level job let alone extra disposable income to blow on healthcare or retirement ... they'll be lucky just to meet their utility bills let alone cable TV bills !

WAKE UP OUT THERE !