Obama/ MoveOn asking for help re: Sen. Byrd's re-election

[DancingBear]

I just received an email letter from MoveOn (and a letter from Sen. Obama contained within) asking for contributions to the campaign of Sen. Byrd for re-election. It seems as if Repubs will be targeting him heavily this time around, predicated of course of his very courageous stands with regard to Iraq, judicial appointments, etc.

This seems to be to be a very worthwhile contribution, and I like the idea of knowing that my contribution will go DIRECTLY to the candidate I wish it to go to.

I'm in - anyone else?

[ProgressiveConn]

1. Personally

I won't be donating to Sen. Byrd because of his past. It might not matter to some but it matters to me. I still wish him the best of luck against the present hatemonger sure to be running against him.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. It's the past

And they call it the past for a reason. Base him on what he's done now and not in the past. Judge him for who he is now. And I'd rather have Senator Byrd then some hatefilled republican.

[ProgressiveConn]

5. I just can never be sure which is the real him.

Anyone who does what he did should have their morality questioned every day for the rest of their lives. I understand it was decades ago and he has apologized but IMO it is no less of an act than joining the Nazis. Probably worse. I feel like he was just able to see where we were headed and he hopped on for the ride.

As I said I wish him the best but no former Klan member will receive a dime from me. Not that I have a dime to spare at the moment anyhow. But between now and 2006 there are enough candidates who were not Klan members who could use my measly donations.

[Withywindle]

7. The Nazi analogy might be a good one in some ways...

...because the Nazi Party permeated so much of German society on every level, and you had to be part of it to get anywhere. Huge numbers of Germans (the majority) were involved at some level, whether they personally had anything against Jews or not. I wouldn't necessarily, say, hold it against someone that they were Hitler Youth as a teenager, when just about everyone they knew was and it was socially rather like joining the Boy Scouts. And that's how the KKK was in a lot of mostly white places in the '40s when Byrd was in. It was everywhere. It was lots and lots of people. It was like the Elks Club or the Shriners in lots of towns. That's not an excuse, but it is a reason. Peer pressure can be a powerful thing.

But he has so thoroughly renounced it and apologized over the decades. He met with the NAACP to talk about it, and they accepted his apology and forgave him decades ago. He's not at all like some senators I could think of who never renounced racism at all (Thurmond, Helms, Lott, etc.)

If people can never be forgiven for their terrible mistakes, then what incentive do they really have to change? And if we rule out those who've made them (long, loooong ago) from support, we narrow down our options a little too much for my comfort.

The Republicans WILL use this against him, of course. (Including the ones who still have valid, up-to-date Klan membership cards in their own back pockets - hypocrisy is no object to them) Expect to see this piece of history pop up as a fresh meme and talking point all over the place in the next year. Dems know this and are preparing for it. (Why do you think Barack Obama is the first Senator coming to his support via MoveOn? Yes, they're both Constitutional Law scholars. It's also a nice torch-passing bit to see the youngest Dem Senator speaking up for the oldest. But there's a more obvious reason!)

I'm not trying to invalidate your position; I sympathize with your reasons for it. But people change a LOT over a lifetime as long as his--and remember the parable of the prodigal son. Sometimes someone who's come to liberal principles of equality and justice through conscious thought and change of heart/awarness can be a much stronger fighter for the cause than someone who always had them as articles of faith and never questioned himself. I think Byrd's proved himself, personally, and I will support him.

[ProgressiveConn]

20. Hitler Youth was widespread too! Plus it would have been a parental

decision. Nazi Party membership or Klan membership would be the choice of an adult. =)

And you're right he has changed a good deal. I just can never be sure that his beliefs changed. For all I know he could still have the same beliefs and merely saw which way the wind was blowing and went along with it... If he hadn't apologized and didn't have a good NAACP voting record in recent years I sure as hell wouldn't even support him in conversation. I want him to win for sure but I'm just not willing to give him money that I could give to those challenging Simmons, Johnson, Shays, Rell or Lieberman in my own state. =)

[Yupster]

26. I think what you say was true in the 20's

but not in the 40's.

By the 40's the Klan had been fully discreditted by FBI infiltration and some show trials of their leaders. It was even formally disbanded in 1944. Just reading from my trusty Funk and Wagnall's

"By 1929 it had been reduced to several thousand members."

"Revival of Klan activities after the war led to widespread public sentiment for the suppression of the organization. It suffered aa setback in its national stronghold, Georgia, when the state revoked the Klan charter in 1947."

"(with the death of its national leader in 1949)...Klan unity broke down into numerous, independent, competing units, which often did not last long enough to be placed on the list of subversive organizations issued by the US Attorney General."

Think what you want of Byrd's past in the Klan, but thinking that it was a giant powerful group in the late forties that anyone who was anything needed to join is fantasy. It was a efeated, discredited group that Byrd joined in 1948.

[ArkDem]

34. When he fillibustered against the Civil Right's Act it wasn't

anywhere near the 40's.

[Bridget Burke]

13. Besides, you're working to get Leiberman out!

Which Democrats will be fighting him for the nomination?

[ProgressiveConn]

21. Only one to step forward so far is

Dr. John Orman. It is a remote possibility that he could pull a Wellstone... But hopefully another Dem will step forward. =)

[Mass]

6. His current record is mixed

, but certainly a lot better than the Republican that seeks to beat him and he should certainly be supported as he is going to run.

I would however have preferred that he stopped running for multiple reasons, including his age. He should have found somebody to replace him that he likes and support him as his replacement.

[jonnyblitz]

9. he is very homophobic too tho I like his anti- war stance

he said some pretty nasty things about the GLBT community on the Senate floor while clutching his bible during the DOMA debates in the 90's. :shrug:

[DancingBear]

10. jonny - could you provide further info on the DOMA comments?

I have not yet responded to the MoveOn request, and what you
mentioned is quite troubling to me. I was/am unaware of him saying something like that.

If you could steer me in the direction of his comments, I'll review them and act accordingly.

Thanks.

[jonnyblitz]

11. I don't have the links anymore and I kick myself for that.

this has been brought up off and on in the past, not so much lately. I remember watching the DOMA debates while they were going on and seeing him on C-SPAN . Another DUer no longer with us, named Blitz (sort of like my screen name) had the links at one time and most of the time would get ganged up on when he would bring it up because everybody was so pleased with Byrd speaking out against the war. I am kind of hesitant to post this comment on the threads about Byrd because I DON'T have the links anymore so I guess you have to take my word for it or not. I seriously probably shouldn't say anything.

I would go ahead and do what you are doing. I apologize for giving you pause with no documentation to back it up. I just know what i saw and read at one time. :hi:

[Mass]

14. I dont know about the DOMA statement

but he voted for cloture on the Federal Marriage Amendment last year.

Here is his record on civil rights. He voted YES on DOMA and NO in adding sexual orientation to hate crimes, ...

http://www.govote.com/Domestic/Robert_Byrd_Civil_Rights.htm

[ProgressiveConn]

22. self delete: I was wrong about his vote on DOMA.

[MountainLaurel]

33. There are no gays in WV

As I understand it, was his comment several years ago regarding programs for AIDS patients and HIV prevention. And don't forget his comments about atheists (that they should be run out of the country) on the Capitol steps just after 9-11.

I don't think this leopard has changed his spots -- he's just found other people to hate.

Yet, Byrd is still preferable to "Daddy's Girl" Shelley Moore (as in inmate Arch's daughter) Capito.

[Triana]

2. Already posted earlier...

:D

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3378124&mesg_id=3378124

[DancingBear]

4. Thanks - didn't see it

#$%*^ dial-up. :)

[Hippo_Tron]

8. I'm not worried about his re-election

The guy's a legend and he's a senate majority away from being chairman of one of the most powerful committees in the Senate. He rakes in the pork like none other, he's a social conservative, and West Virginia elects Democrats on the state level. The GOP can throw all of the money they want at him, if he runs a half decent campaign it still won't help.

[tritsofme]

12. GOP wouldn't seriously target Byrd

He brings so much pork home to WV that he is a saint.

He'll win reelection in a landslide if he wins, and everyone knows it.

Once Byrd is gone however, this is a seat there is a good probability of us losing.

[DancingBear]

16. Why, then, would you think that MoveOn is acting pre-emptively?

Prior to receiving the MoveOn letter, I would have been in total agreement with your assertions re: Byrd and his safe status (they do, after all, call West Virginia "D.C. West").

However, the letter does give me pause. Anyone have a rationale as to why MoveOn is so concerned this early?

[Withywindle]

17. I don't know but this isn't the first time it's come up

I saw a MoveOn rally on C-SPAN a couple weeks back in support of protection of the filibuster. Byrd spoke, as did Durbin, Boxer, Clinton, Schumer, Leahy, Reid I think (maybe a couple others I can't remember) and SO MANY of them talked about how Byrd was going to need support. It was almost as much a rally for him as for the issue at hand.

[tritsofme]

19. Targetting Byrd would just be illogical and take a huge amount of money

And I can't see them doing this in a year where they have a very good chance to pick up senate seats in states like Florida, Nebraska and Washington State.

They can just wait for him to retire or die and pick up the seat.

This letter makes no sense at all.

[DaveinMD]

25. they want to raise money

its what groups do.

[DancingBear]

29. They could do that easily enough with a boilerplate letter

"Help us bring back a Democratic Congress", or something to that effect.

Why use Byrd as a centerpiece if this is their only goal? And why Obama?

No, I think there must be more to it than the simple rationale of raising money.

And please do not feel that Byrd can never lose - may I remind you who the Governor of California is?

[DaveinMD]

30. Grey Davis was incredibly unpopular

Byrd is an icon in West Virginia. They'll never get rid of him.

[DancingBear]

31. "and they'll neve make anyone believe Kerry' s medals were fake"

C'mon now, remember who we're dealing with here.

All they have to do in WVA is play the gay marriage card - even though Byrd voted for DOMA they will try and paint him with the same "Dem liberal" brush that they have been using for years. He's against the war, he doesn't support our troops, etc. etc. etc. That can work in WVA - don't know if it will, but it can.

BTW, why wasn't Byrd able to deflect the "Kerry will take away your Bibles and gays can marry" attack that Chimpy used to carry WVA? By your logic, an icon like Byrd should have easily squashed it, and HIS opinions should have carried great weight.

No, you are are too tied to this "icon" line of reasoning, and I don't know why.

Maybe.

[DaveinMD]

32. Byrd is not vulnerable

I've seen the numbers, I know what his polling numbers are. It would take him getting caught molesting a young boy for him to lose.

[w4rma]

15. I hope they use Byrd's election to coattail other Democrats into office in

West Virginia. Byrd could probably do no campaigning whatsoever and win, *but* West Virginia has been trending Republican, recently, and I think that the best way to go about reelecting Sen. Byrd is by allowing Sen. Byrd to help elect more Dems in West Virginia therby getting his face time at the same time.

Two birds with one synergetic stone.

[DebJ]

18. we're donating...SOME damn Senators need to understand the

Constitution!

[ISUGRADIA]

23. He's got the worst voting record on LGBT issues of all Dems

from the last compilation- and that included Zell Miller. I'd vote for him over a R if I lived in WV but there are a hell of a lot more deserving (and more vunderable) Dems I'd give money too before him.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. He's good on foreign policy, though

No senator is perfect.

[ISUGRADIA]

28. True, but it comes down to issues that matter to someone

and as a gay man, i cannot forget his votes against LGBT issues and his biblical spoutings against DOMA. Sam Ervin was a great Senator when it came to chairing Watergate but he opposed civil rights legiislation for African Americans. I did not expect African Americans to give him or any anti-civil rights Senator a pass.

I am a realist though, a Repub is going to be worse than Byrd.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. I understand how you feel

Not being gay myself, I am outraged by the way that homosexuals are treated in this country, especially by a government that is not supposed to discriminate.

However, consider this as well. Byrd may be bad on gay rights issues when they come up in the Senate, but he will work to keep Bush's right wing justices off of the bench. Certainly that would be better for gay rights than having a senator who will help Bush appoint 3 more Scalias to the Supreme Court.

[ISUGRADIA]

36. Very Good and I will agree Byrd should be reelected

I'd rather have Byrd in the Senate than a pro-LGBT Republican Senator (as if that was even possible) because of the Supreme Court, Commitee chairs, legislation that gets approved (if the Dems retake the Senate). Byrd will vote for good Supreme Court Justices and that is important. The anti-sodomy law ruling is fresh enough that is could be revisited by a facsist packed Bush Court.

I just wished he voted more like Rockefeller on LGBT issues.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. He's an old man, he's got one term left in him anyway

In 6 years we can work to get a senator who is more progressive on those issues to replce him.

[ISUGRADIA]

38. I was thinking that too, there are still a lot more Dem office

holders in WV than Rep so the bench is much stronger. I do hope Byrd serves long enough to break the years of service record of Strom Thurmond (a truly evil and slimy bastard). He was in the Senate 48 years I believe. If Byrd can make it to at least 2007 he'll break that record.

[DaveinMD]

24. Byrd

will never lose. Half the state is named after him.