Now the Schindlers use Catholic communion as

[saracat]

a way to subvert the judicial order. Bobby is claiming , with a Monsieur by his side that she is being denied the sacraments because as a Catholic she is entitled to receive communion "every day if she wants to". He is whining that the "monsieur would be "arrested".
I am sooo sick of this. She wasn't a "Catholic" in good standing when she had her attack. No one can know if she would have even wanted to receive communion. She wasn't attending Church at the time of her attack. This is a flagrant abuse of a religious organization. She has had the last rites at least twice recently. She had communion on Easter. Enough.
I don't know what Terri's feelings about the Church were, other than she wasn't attending Mass, but I now have written instructions that I am NOT to be given the last rites no matter how many of my relatives plead, and NO Catholic service. I hope that Terri isn't having her right to not participate in religion being taken away from her by those pretending to defend her right to practice her religion.
These people have been either continually lying about the Catholic Church, or they don't know their doctrine.Yesterday, one of the family members said that it was against the Catholic faith to be cremated. That is NOT true. It used to be years ago. It is so no longer. They have twisted everything from mortal sin to communion to cremation to make their point. They are a disgrace! I Terri leaves us soon. An animal deserves better family than these!

[notadmblnd]

1. it was my understanding that she recieved

communion before her feeding tube was disconnected.

[dogman]

4. And again on Easter in the wine.

[cmkramer]

7. Court Order

According to George Felos, Mr. Schiavo's attorney, the court ordered that she receive the sacraments when her feeding tube was removed and one more time before she died. If the Schindlers thought was too restrictive, they should have said something sooner.

[Warpy]

20. One doesn't receive communion through a tube in the gut

It's a "communion of intention" or some such thing if the person is unconscious or cannot swallow. One is blessed by the priest who holds the host to make the blessing. Some priests will dip the corner of a napkin into sacramental wine and brush the person's lips with it.

Ingestion is NOT required.

[Sannum]

2. communion is used to absolve sins.

What sins could she possibly commit in her condition to warrant communion every day?

[Nikki Stone 1]

5. no. Communion is not absolution. The sacrament of reconciliation does

Communion is open to any Catholic in good standing.

[Demit]

10. no it's not. That's what confession is for. Or a priest's blessing can

take away your venial sins. Or you can do that by making a good act of contrition. The sacrament of the Last Rites (Extreme Unction) is the priest absolving you of all sins, mortal and venial.

[Nikki Stone 1]

13. "Good standing" means no mortal sins on your soul. One can

still receive communion with venial sins, though confession always helps.

Missing mass is a mortal sin, so if you are not missing mass, and your sins are petty ones, you are still considered to be in good standing.

And Confession (the sacrament of reconciliation) can remove both venial and mortal sins.

[Demit]

16. check in the upper right hand corner to see whose post I was replying to.

[Nikki Stone 1]

26. Saw it; Edited the original title. Thought the info was still useful. nt

nt

[Goblinmonger]

24. Vatican II

I believe Extreme Unction went out with VII. It is annointing of the sick now. You can receive this sacrament more than once.

[Warpy]

21. Confession and last rites are to absolve sins

Communion is received after they are absolved.

[Nikki Stone 1]

3. Are her parents staunch Catholics?

Sometimes religiosity comes after a tragedy.

[sandnsea]

6. It has been disgusting

And as I recall, the host readily dissolves. Wet her tongue with the wine, put a teensy bit of host on, communion.

What really gets me is that Brother O'Donnell. Yesterday he said if she'd had a living will, he would have no problem allowing her to die. Either she's being starved and murdered, which would be suicide if she chose it. Or not.

It's just nutso.

[poppet]

8. I hope this family might find some peace one day n/t

[WolverineDG]

9. Cremation is ok

at least with the more sane Catholics. My uncle, who was Catholic, was cremated when he died 7 yrs ago.
dg

[pelagius]

28. OK since 1963...

...unless it's being done for some "anti-Christian" reason.

[salin]

11. Some freepers posted that they believe

that were Ms. Schiavo to take communion - it would break the judicial ruling and lead to a revocation altogether of the order.

Certainly the Schiavo's know better that this (esp given the report that she was given Communion on Easter)... but this little bit of misinformation might be part of what is feuling some of the protesters.

[TahitiNut]

12. A big enough crucifix can be used to bludgeon people to death.

Symbols, principles, rites, and icons can be exploited and abused by anyone - self-righteousness is a narcotic that allows an addict to commit all kinds of sins and atrocities.

[DearAbby]

14. Do you have a link to your information that she was not a reg. practicing

catholic? I am in a debate with a catholic fundy who is using this angle as the crux of his debate, that according to him she was devout Catholic and this would be considered suicide, and therefore a mortal sin.

[saracat]

15. It was in an earlier article. I'll try to google it!

[saracat]

18. And as a well educated former Catholic, your fundie friend is wrong!

Tell him to check with a Jesuit. If she is not conscious, she cannot commit a mortal sin! She has to be in a position to know right from wrong , think her action is a sin and do it anyway. As a matter of fact, that applies to just about any sin. And Terri certainly is in no position to "know"anything, or make a "choice"!

[DearAbby]

23. fundy who is using this angle as the crux of his debate, Cont.

He is claiming as his argument that the Directive to Michael about not wanting to live in such a condition and to have the tubes/machines pulled is in a sense "Suicide" and that she as a Catholic would never make such a statement. That is the crux of his argument.

[saracat]

25. My father was a "devout Catholic" who said a decade of the

Rosary every day and never missed a Sunday Mass except when he was in intensive care, and he often said " I wouldn't want to live that way!' I disconnected him from a respirator. Your friend is dumb as a rock. He can't possibly be a well educated Catholic. No offense. Please tell him to talk to a Jesuit, or google Fr. Andrew Greeley on this subject. He had a great OP piece on this. He is a Jesuit and doesn't agree with your friend or these nut jobs.

[DearAbby]

27. thanks for the advise...as a non believer I was stuck, claiming that she

in essence died 15yrs ago, man intervened in the process that she could not be blamed for the medical technology that only half way revived her body.

I will use this and thanks for your help. :thumbsup:

[saracat]

29. By the way, Here is the quote from the Abstract , from the court record

on her religious practice-

"The testimony in this case establishes that Theresa was very young and very healthy when this tragedy struck. Like many young people without children, she had not prepared a will, much less a living will. She had been raised in the Catholic faith, but did not regularly attend mass or have a religious advisor who could assist the court in weighing her religious attitudes about life-support methods. Her statements to her friends and family about the dying process were few and they were oral. Nevertheless, those statements, along with other evidence about Theresa, gave the trial court a sufficient basis to make this decision for her."

Abstract appeal

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

[Princess Turandot]

32. Tell him that the Church allows for the removal of ventilators..

as well as the choice to not accept them to begin with, when it is likely that death is imminent. They also allowed for the removal of feeding tubes for people in Ms. Schiavo's case until the Pope issued something abt 10 years ago saying that 'nutrition' was a basic human right, not an extraordinary measure to keep someone alive. So technically speaking, Ms. Schiavo committed no sin by not wanting to be on artificial life support, including feeding tubes, since the 'rules' were different when she had her collapse.

On the other hand, debating with someone about the notion of whether an already dead person could commit a sin, is probably not worth the increase in your own blood pressure!

(The Church has also loosened its view on suicide, not that it applies to this case obviously. They view suicide as a choice made mostly by people who are depressed or suffering from psychological issues, and that people in those states of mind could hardly be accused of committing a sin.)

[Broadslidin]

17. The Pope Also Highly Recommends, " Exorcism"

:crazy: http://www.holygrail-church.fsnet.co.uk/Exorcism.htm :crazy:

[displacedtexan]

19. Did she take communion every day of her life?

Somehow, I doubt it.

Shameless ploy, IMHO.

Old Man Schindler is going to have to give up and get a day job. Good thing he filed for bankruptcy before this new law passed.

[rodeodance]

22. yes, it is shamefull ruse--watch Hannity suck it up tonight on his vigil

outside the hospice!!!

[Nikki Stone 1]

30. Somehow, I doubt that Terri and her parents took communion every day

Once a week is normal for most Catholics.

[pelagius]

31. Catholics are supposed to communicate on "holy days of obligation"...

...and Sunday (The Feast of Our Lord) is the primary one. The other ten are:

1. The Nativity of the Lord Jesus Christ (Christmas)
2. The Epiphany (Jan. 6.)
3. The Ascension (40 days after Easter)
4. The Body and Blood of Christ (Corpus Christi)
5. Holy Mary, the Mother of God (octave day of Christmas, Jan. 1)
6. The Immaculate Conception (Dec. 8)
7. The Assumption (Aug. 15)
8. St. Joseph (March 19)
9. Ss. Peter and Paul (June 29)
10. All Saints (Nov. 1)

Very devout Catholics may attend Mass daily, but it's not required for lay Catholics. The religious (monks and nuns) follow the rule of their respective orders, which often including a daily Eucharist.

[displacedtexan]

33. Thanks for the info.

Most of the Feed Terri Brigade have no idea about Catholicism, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that they don't let their children date Catholics!

[displacedtexan]

34. Thanks for the info.

Most of the Feed Terri Brigade have no idea about Catholicism, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that they don't let their children date Catholics!

[displacedtexan]

35. Thanks for the info.

Most of the Feed Terri Brigade have no idea about Catholicism, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that they don't let their children date Catholics!

[pelagius]

36. Small correction

Apparently the "holy days of obligation" I list in the previous post are the one's declared by the Vatican, but national churches have some leeway (with Vatican approval) to modify the list. The US Catholic bishops have done so and only some of these days are observed in the US.

Further details can be found at:

http://www.creighton.edu/~alackamp/holydays/answer.html

The idea, of course, that a Catholic must take the Eucharist daily is still absurd.

[alcuno]

37. You're all missing the point. Communion requires consent.

The way I understand it from the priests is that before you are given communion, you say, "Amen," which means "I agree."

Administering communion to a Catholic in PVS is more symbolic than anything else because he/she has no thought and cannot agree.